Would we care as much if this band wasn't called Guns N' Roses?

[smokescreen hustle]

I don't think the name matters.

As far as Axl himself is concerned, I don't think the name matters to him in the musical sense, I think it's become a matter of personal pride. Duff and Slash are fighting him about it? Well, he's furious with them for "abandoning" him, so it'd make sense that he's doing this to prove a point. "See this? I started this. I'll go with it til I wanna drop it." That kind of thing.

Regardless of what name Democracy's released under, it'll sell. This whole procrastination thing when it comes to the release may be alienating a portion of his following but I know even friends of mine who despise Axl on principle will buy the album just to see what the fuck's so insane about it that it took so long to finish. Is Axl going to take a different route with Democracy? Possibly. He might want to evolve as an artist but he might also cling to what he knows because it's familiar and stepping out his comfort area might frighten him a bit. It's all well and good to experiment with style but an album theme is a delicate issue. It weaves everything together. He'll probably go with something he Knows, for that.

[Axl4Prez2004]

"Its been stated several times by band members that he did want to do a grunge record. Its a known fact. Same thing with the industrial shit."

Jameslofton, that must have been alot...I mean ALOT of meth you did back in the day. ?Please give me reliable sources for this. ?Sounds like manure to me. ?


"I wish Axl had listened to Slayer and Megadeth instead of Nirvana and Pearl Jam. That would have been a much more interesting direction for the band to take, and the 'old' members might have stayed with GNR."

Jameslofton, we have much...MUCH different tastes. ?Going in a Slayer/Megadeth direction would have been THE kiss of death, and we wouldn't be here today. ?To me, that stuff's close to unlistenable. ?From a marketing perspective, you'd have to agree, you'd have obliterated about 95% of the female fans of Axl and GNR. ?Personally, I enjoyed Pearl Jam and Nirvana though I wasn't crazy over it...but at least it was listenable (is that even a word? ) ?Also, if Axl was so hell-bent on "doing a grunge or industrial record," why didn't he release one? ?Huh? ?Gimme a fuckin' break. ?Are Maddy and The Blues grunge or industrial??? ?

Have you heard Madagascar? ?The Blues? ?CD? ?IRS??? ?Even Riyadh's got potential. ?(Silkworms however, is almost as bad as My World. ?) ?

I just don't understand the Axl-bashers. ?This band's disintegration was for the best. ?Nobody here knows the whole story, and we probably never will. ?All I can tell you is that Madagascar and The Blues are 2 of GNR's best songs ever, and we've got more to look forward to. ?

If you don't like the name, just call it, The New Incarnation of Guns N' Roses. ?
NIG N' R!!! ?

  ?Axl4Prez2004 ? ? ?

 ?

[smokescreen hustle]

Madagascar? One of the best? That's reaching. It's a favorite of mine on a personal level but musically speaking it's lacking.

Axl wouldn't go in the grunge direction, again on principle. The grunge era tried to assassinate the hair metal era. Axl flourished in the latter, and he's not the kind to join things he can't beat. He sulks.*

(*I say that with only the utmost love, mind.)

[jimmythegent]

"Its been stated several times by band members that he did want to do a grunge record. Its a known fact. Same thing with the industrial shit."

Jameslofton, that must have been alot...I mean ALOT of meth you did back in the day. ?Please give me reliable sources for this. ?Sounds like manure to me. ?

 ?

I think James refers to an interview with Slash, where Slash said words to the effect of "Axl was into Pearl Jam and wanted to make a record that sounded like Pearl Jam, and I hate them" or something. Anyone know the interview I mean?

As far as the industrial direction's concerned? This was widely reported in the late 90's, Axl himself talked about his love of NIN and admiration for Trent Reznor etc.. Coupled with this he enlisted the likes of Sean Beaven, Chris Vrenna and Robin Finck.

However, I think Axl may have moved away from this a little, hence the inclusion of songs such as Blues and Maddy on the 2002 tour.

As a side note, I for one loved the "grunge era". Pearl Jam, Nirvana and Soundgarden especially formed the backbone of my listening tastes in my late teens - Guns was the band that got me into music, but the Seattle era really solidified it for me, that was one of the great eras of rock music IMO

[jameslofton29]

Axl4prez, you were one of the people I respected here, at least until that last post. No reason to insult me over my meth use as a teenager. It was way out of line. The insults on these forums is at an all time high, and it needs to stop. As I have August18th and several others, I will ignore you from now on. Now, back to the topic: Jimmy, you gave the examples perfectly. Izzy also mentioned in an interview years ago about Axl wanting to go grunge. Jimmy, I agree with you about certain grunge bands being great(soundgarden, Alice in Chains, some pearl jam), but it was not a direction that Axl should have tried taking the band. It got them nowhere. You people who think GNR doing a Slayer type record would be wrong have not heard Slayer's 'Seasons in the Abyss' album. Ever since I heard that, I thought GNR should have tried something like that. They might have killed grunge if they had attempted it. There was a cool speed metal movement going on around the same time GNR was on top and grunge was about to hit the scene. Bands like Slayer,Megadeth,Death Angel to name a few. GNR could have stolen their buzz and created something incredible out of it. Go listen to 'War Ensemble', 'Dead Skin Mask', 'Seasons in the Abyss'. Go get Death Angel's 'Act II' album. Pretty fucking intense! You'll get chills listening to the songs just mentioned, especially 'Seasons', and you'll wish Axl had done something similar. Girls not liking Slayer?? You have no idea what you're talking about. Go to a Slayer concert, there are plenty of girls there.

[Falcon]

I'ds forgot about Axl's Pearl Jam fetish, never as strong as the Reznor/NIN fixation but I do recall
him bringing in former PJ drummer Dave Abbruzzese in for a while after Sorum was out..

[Voodoochild]

You're funny, james. First, you say the ex-members said things about Axl trying the industrial and grunge sound. But then, when Axl said something abou that stupid Snakepit album, you said he was lying.

I'm not saying Axl didn't fucked up. But he wasn't the only one. Slash was fuckin' blind to every new sound out there. So was Duff.

And what the fuck about this: "Slayer and Megadeth instead of Nirvana and Pearl Jam"? Hell, no!

[smokescreen hustle]

Girls not liking Slayer?? You have no idea what you're talking about. Go to a Slayer concert, there are plenty of girls there.

Hahaha, no shit.

[Acquiesce]

I'm not saying Axl didn't fucked up. But he wasn't the only one. Slash was fuckin' blind to every new sound out there. So was Duff.

They weren't blind to new music. They just didn't feel the need to latch onto whatever sound that was hot at the moment. That would be lame and the band would have sold out if that happened.

[Falcon]

They weren't blind to new music. They just didn't feel the need to latch onto whatever sound that was hot at the moment. That would be lame and the band would have sold out if that happened.

Right on. 

Some will say the old guys refused to evolve. 

Bullshit.

They didn't believe in the singers vision and bailed with their musical dignity.  Their evolution coming in the form of a singer that inspires them, with a stealth sound that plays to their strengths.

[Acquiesce]

They weren't blind to new music. They just didn't feel the need to latch onto whatever sound that was hot at the moment. That would be lame and the band would have sold out if that happened.

Right on.?

Some will say the old guys refused to evolve.?

Bullshit.

They didn't believe in the singers vision and bailed with their musical dignity.? Their evolution coming in the form of a singer that inspires them, with a stealth sound that plays to their strengths.

Exactly! The evolving argument is a load of crap. They weren't afraid of evolving. They just didn't see the point in abandoning the GNR sound to fit in with whatever was hot at the time. Imagine how ridiculous that would have been if they made a Pearl Jam style record. They would have had Metallica beat in the sell out department!

[smokescreen hustle]

Exactly! The evolving argument is a load of crap. They weren't afraid of evolving. They just didn't see the point in abandoning the GNR sound to fit in with whatever was hot at the time. Imagine how ridiculous that would have been if they made a Pearl Jam style record. They would have had Metallica beat in the sell out department!

What constitutes selling out, in your views, and what's the shame?

Everyone makes their living. I do it by working minimum wage jobs, musicians who are good enough do it by using their talent to pad their bank accounts. Giving the World At Large what they want isn't selling out, it's catering to their own need for luxury. But then again... just my opinion.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Jameslofton, I apologize to you and hope we can still post as adults here.  It was a bad joke, and I apologize, sorry man.  I enjoy your posts, and I hope we can keep on keepin' on.  I don't like the insults either, and you know I'm pretty good about not being an a-hole, but I was one here, again I'm sorry.  Maybe it's the heat!  It's fuckin' over 110 degrees here with the heat index!   

In this case I just found it so unbelievable that Axl would take GNR to full-blown grunge.  I kind of look at the different sounds Axl would do as something like he did with the 2002 tour.  Personally, I loved the incorporation of the synth. into the intro. of YCBM, it was one of my highlights from the show. 

On the Megadeth/Slayer vs. GNR female fan-base, I wish I had the stats, but I'm willing to bet GNR's chick fans outnumber them by alot.  Also, a couple songs that sounded like that PJ song Old Woman witing behind a Counter etc... (Hearts and Thoughts) would have been acceptable...but like I said, Axl would never make an album where everything sounds the same.  Think of the diversity on the UYI's, I think it's similar to the diversity we'll hear on Chinese Democracy.

 
Axl4Prez2004 

[brian]

Would I care as much?

I would care more...  Why does Axl want to keep the GNR name?  OK yeah, we all know it was his dream...  But after all is said and done it's just a name.  A name associated forever with the past, and you can not undo that.  When I see Axls new band, I want to see something fresh, something not associated with the old band.  I want to be able to go see Axl in concert without having to hear 75% old material and see people stuck in the 80's with their mullets walking around in their tight pants, in their cheesy GNR clothes from 1989. 

Why do I think Axl want's to keep the GNR name?

Money.  He thinks the name will keep people coming to the shows and will sell more albums.  It seems his ego is too big to go around to smaller clubs.   He can't fill an arena with out the GNR name.  But the reality is, he can barely fill an arena WITH the GNR name.  Start new, that's my opinion.

For those people stuck in the 80's you will always have your CDs and concert videos.

[Butch Français]

I guess I would, cos I usually refer to them as Axl's band, instead of GN'R.

[Lineker10]

I agree with what people are saying about evolving. Just becasue Slash and Duff didnt want to do grunge or industrial doesnt mean they were holding the band back - they may have listened to that stuff and simply not wanted to play on material like that. Also if im not mistaken in the Kurt Loader interview back in like 1999 or 2000 its Axl who claims Slash was holding them back from doing a old school Rn'R record - im sorry but lookking at Slash's material since Guns theres no way i can belive that.

[jameslofton29]

Lineker10, there are many discrepancies between what Axl says and what everyone else says about what happened to bring about the GNR trainwreck. Guess who's lying?

[Acquiesce]

Also if im not mistaken in the Kurt Loader interview back in like 1999 or 2000 its Axl who claims Slash was holding them back from doing a old school Rn'R record - im sorry but lookking at Slash's material since Guns theres no way i can belive that.

Not to mention that is has been Axl who has been holding the band back all this time.

[Voodoochild]

Yeah, "their musical dignity" is awesome, just hear Contraband!

[jameslofton29]

Well, at least all the former members have done something all these years. Of course its not as good as GNR was. But at least they create and release music. Axl's the one that doesn't ever do anything, refusing to show any 'musical dignity'. I still laugh at Axl's comments about burying AFD. Good job at burying it.