Could Axl have done it without the old guys?

[deliverthecow]

the leg of the Illusions tour with the whole entourage was definitely bloated. The Skin and Bones leg was much better. That is what they dhould have put on video.

They also had izzy for that leg didnt they?

I am not sure, if i remember correctly that was toward the end of the tour . I could be wrong. Not to sure.

[*Izzy*]

Axl - A? mediocre songwriter (So far, in my eyes, he hasn't proven himself as a songwriter, I'm not judging the unreleased tracks)

Hmm, November Rain, Estranged, Coma, Madagascar, the blues all say your wrong on that one.

Madagascar and The Blues, not released. Coma, I don't like it. November Rain and Estranged, without Slash's guitar parts the would SUCK

  Izzy?

[Twisted Nerve 85]

I think Axl Rose is a fucking genious and I think he would have been somewhat successful on his own. But to the level that GnR was at, without Slash Duff Izzy Matt and Steven, No fucking way. 

[Butch Français]

Axl - A? mediocre songwriter (So far, in my eyes, he hasn't proven himself as a songwriter, I'm not judging the unreleased tracks)

Hmm, November Rain, Estranged, Coma, Madagascar, the blues all say your wrong on that one.

Madagascar and The Blues, not released. Coma, I don't like it. November Rain and Estranged, without Slash's guitar parts the would SUCK

  Izzy?

wow, I actually have the exact same opinion as you on those songs!

Edit: I regret saying I have the exact same opinion. I don't think NR and Estranged would have sucked without Slash, they'd still be ok songs, but nothing more than that. Slash made the songs several times better for sure!
same goes for SCOM, that songs would be pretty poor without Slash's playing.

[Lineker10]

Axl - A? mediocre songwriter (So far, in my eyes, he hasn't proven himself as a songwriter, I'm not judging the unreleased tracks)

Hmm, November Rain, Estranged, Coma, Madagascar, the blues all say your wrong on that one.

Madagascar and The Blues, not released. Coma, I don't like it. November Rain and Estranged, without Slash's guitar parts the would SUCK

  Izzy?

wow, I actually have the exact same opinion as you on those songs!

I like those songs but i never find myself listening to them becasue i find them to drawn out you know? Espcially live versions where it goes on for like 10/12 minutes.

[marknroses]

Lets not start this again, we all know that was slashs idea to bring in the back up singers and the horn section on tour. Slash even said that himself in an interview. Why do you always claim this was all Axls idea when it was not. I proved this before yet you keep claiming it was all Axls idea. slash suggested it, Axl thought it was great and agreed.

Also Adlers civl war was pieced together from 100 takes or something like that. He was too drugged out to be any good. If it was the clean steven, then that is a different story.

Dave, Why Do U Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'?!

Slash was in charge of the band and how it sounded in rehearsals (almost like a General Tommy Stinson that you're so fond of from the current GNR lineup), not in charge of the idea of bringing the other players into the band during the UYI tour. Axl was clearly the influence behind the idea, because of his performance with the Rolling Stones in the 1989 Steel Wheels tour. Slash never got on stage with the Rolling Stones so the idea could not have just come to him from out of no where. The Rolling Stones had backup dancers and horn players. It was also not Slash's idea to bring in 3 guitarists, 2 keyboard players to GNR, that's obviously Axl's ideas now that he has a band that had 8 players in it. If I recall, Steven Adler always had his nuts punched by Axl Rose in disagreements. Steven and Izzy were the only t wo guys who could stand up to Axl. the difference with Slash is that he couldn't. He's got the shy laid back approach to things and there was no way he was mentally capable with arguing Axl off the idea of getting the big band together for the UYI tour. Axl was also the member who made the contract that gave him the GNR name at  the beginning of the UYI so that the other members couldn't superscede him in major decisions made on the band. Yes, Slash did a great job getting the band together for the UYI Tour in 1992, but that was something that he agreed to with Axl, reluctantly I suppose, but didn't think it would do that much to  the band at the time. Of course, only Slash, not Axl, openly expressed disappointment with this idea by the time Skin & Bones came out, which was one of the best legs of the UYI tour in 1993.

And whether POPCORN takes 5 or 100 takes (btw it was over 80 takes), the classic GNR drumming sound was there. Not that I hate that much on Matt's drumming, but Steven was the rhythmic drummer who added a whole life to songs that Matt instead made sound more grandoise, which certainly works on the epics of UYI like Estranged & Don;t Cry, but doesn't work on hard rockers like YCBM & BOB. & I'm sure we can agree that Civil War is one of the best tracks from UYI and that the smooth rhytmic drumming of Steven dind't hurt.

For those who think Steven would not have been a help on the UYI records had he been healthy, just get the bootlegs from the 1/18/1986 Roxy show and hear him on BOB. I'm sure that will turn a few heads on this board.

MNR

[Falcon]

[
Dave, Why Do U Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'?!

Slash was in charge of the band and how it sounded in rehearsals (almost like a General Tommy Stinson that you're so fond of from the current GNR lineup), not in charge of the idea of bringing the other players into the band during the UYI tour. Axl was clearly the influence behind the idea, because of his performance with the Rolling Stones in the 1989 Steel Wheels tour...

Agreed.

I've been asking for documentation about it being Slash's idea for years Mark and haven't seen a damn thing to coroborate these allegations.?

As I've always said, whoever was responsible for this incarnation should have been shot.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

[
Dave, Why Do U Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'?!

Slash was in charge of the band and how it sounded in rehearsals (almost like a General Tommy Stinson that you're so fond of from the current GNR lineup), not in charge of the idea of bringing the other players into the band during the UYI tour. Axl was clearly the influence behind the idea, because of his performance with the Rolling Stones in the 1989 Steel Wheels tour...

Agreed.

I've been asking for documentation about it being Slash's idea for years Mark and haven't seen a damn thing to coroborate these allegations.?

As I've always said, whoever was responsible for this incarnation should have been shot.

You guys have a really short memory dont you? I have posted this like THREE times already. I am NOT looking for the quote again.? Everyone knows that is was slashs idea and pitched it to Axl. So just give it up already.

And Mark do I want to start something? Grow up. You act like a 5th grader. And you are such a loser for having that ugly pic of your mug as your icon.

And Mark as for Adler did you even read what I said? I said if Adler was straight it would have been a different story.

[Falcon]

[
Dave, Why Do U Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'?!

Slash was in charge of the band and how it sounded in rehearsals (almost like a General Tommy Stinson that you're so fond of from the current GNR lineup), not in charge of the idea of bringing the other players into the band during the UYI tour. Axl was clearly the influence behind the idea, because of his performance with the Rolling Stones in the 1989 Steel Wheels tour...

Agreed.

I've been asking for documentation about it being Slash's idea for years Mark and haven't seen a damn thing to coroborate these allegations.?

As I've always said, whoever was responsible for this incarnation should have been shot.

You guys have a really short memory dont you? I have posted this like THREE times already. I am NOT looking for the quote again.? Everyone knows that is was slashs idea and pitched it to Axl. So just give it up already.

Dave, I've asked you to produce thes quotes for eons and you always given me the same answer (see above).  As I've stated before, It's not that i don't believe you, I've just never scene the quotes to back up your allegations. 

Until you produce the statements to back it up, you're fair game.

[killingvector]

Lets not start this again, we all know that was slashs idea to bring in the back up singers and the horn section on tour. Slash even said that himself in an interview. Why do you always claim this was all Axls idea when it was not. I proved this before yet you keep claiming it was all Axls idea. slash suggested it, Axl thought it was great and agreed.

Also Adlers civl war was pieced together from 100 takes or something like that. He was too drugged out to be any good. If it was the clean steven, then that is a different story.

Dave, Why Do U Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'?!

Slash was in charge of the band and how it sounded in rehearsals (almost like a General Tommy Stinson that you're so fond of from the current GNR lineup), not in charge of the idea of bringing the other players into the band during the UYI tour. Axl was clearly the influence behind the idea, because of his performance with the Rolling Stones in the 1989 Steel Wheels tour. Slash never got on stage with the Rolling Stones so the idea could not have just come to him from out of no where. The Rolling Stones had backup dancers and horn players. It was also not Slash's idea to bring in 3 guitarists, 2 keyboard players to GNR, that's obviously Axl's ideas now that he has a band that had 8 players in it. If I recall, Steven Adler always had his nuts punched by Axl Rose in disagreements. Steven and Izzy were the only t wo guys who could stand up to Axl. the difference with Slash is that he couldn't. He's got the shy laid back approach to things and there was no way he was mentally capable with arguing Axl off the idea of getting the big band together for the UYI tour. Axl was also the member who made the contract that gave him the GNR name at  the beginning of the UYI so that the other members couldn't superscede him in major decisions made on the band. Yes, Slash did a great job getting the band together for the UYI Tour in 1992, but that was something that he agreed to with Axl, reluctantly I suppose, but didn't think it would do that much to  the band at the time. Of course, only Slash, not Axl, openly expressed disappointment with this idea by the time Skin & Bones came out, which was one of the best legs of the UYI tour in 1993.

And whether POPCORN takes 5 or 100 takes (btw it was over 80 takes), the classic GNR drumming sound was there. Not that I hate that much on Matt's drumming, but Steven was the rhythmic drummer who added a whole life to songs that Matt instead made sound more grandoise, which certainly works on the epics of UYI like Estranged & Don;t Cry, but doesn't work on hard rockers like YCBM & BOB. & I'm sure we can agree that Civil War is one of the best tracks from UYI and that the smooth rhytmic drumming of Steven dind't hurt.

For those who think Steven would not have been a help on the UYI records had he been healthy, just get the bootlegs from the 1/18/1986 Roxy show and hear him on BOB. I'm sure that will turn a few heads on this board.

MNR

It's debatable whether a healthy Adler would have improved those records, but the fact remains that the drugs and alcohol had eroded the man's ability to play to the point where he couldn't perform adequetely. Adler was a great drummer in the AFD heyday, but when it came time for the Illusion songs to be laid done, the man had long handed  his golden ticket to the valet.

I think you are also laying the blame on Axl a bit too much for the background players. In the Putterford book, it clearly states that Slash recruited most of the players himself. If he was so opposed to the idea but afraid to deal with the redhead, he might have not helped the effort. But clearly, as the book says, Slash was an active participant in the bands bloatification.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

[
Dave, Why Do U Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'?!

Slash was in charge of the band and how it sounded in rehearsals (almost like a General Tommy Stinson that you're so fond of from the current GNR lineup), not in charge of the idea of bringing the other players into the band during the UYI tour. Axl was clearly the influence behind the idea, because of his performance with the Rolling Stones in the 1989 Steel Wheels tour...

Agreed.

I've been asking for documentation about it being Slash's idea for years Mark and haven't seen a damn thing to coroborate these allegations.?

As I've always said, whoever was responsible for this incarnation should have been shot.

You guys have a really short memory dont you? I have posted this like THREE times already. I am NOT looking for the quote again.? Everyone knows that is was slashs idea and pitched it to Axl. So just give it up already.

Dave, I've asked you to produce thes quotes for eons and you always given me the same answer (see above).? As I've stated before, It's not that i don't believe you, I've just never scene the quotes to back up your allegations.?

Until you produce the statements to back it up, you're fair game.

Like I said I already have in the past, and you are too dumb to remember its not my fault. I dont have to show you again. I am not looking all over the net for the quote again like I did the last few times.? You can think what ever you want but deep down inside y ou know that it was slashs idea.

I producted it a while ago so that is all that matters.

And lets just say for the sake of argument that you could not find a quote where the band said dont cry was the first song written in guns n roses, would that make it any less true? NOPE

[Falcon]

... and you are too dumb to remember its not my fault.

Oh Dave, nice insult.? Are you sure you want to go that route kiddo?

I dont have to show you again. I am not looking all over the net for the quote again like I did the last few times.?

Prove it or it remains open for debate.

You can think what ever you want but deep down inside y ou know that it was slashs idea.

I suppose that alleged pysche degree of yours allows you to know what I think "deep down inside".? Maybe you should use that alleged education on some self analyzation.

I producted it a while ago so that is all that matters.

Where??

As I've said a bazillion times, I could give a fuck whose idea it was.  That said, if you insist on laying blame, you better back it up.

[Carlos_f_Rose]

Of course he couldnt have made it, without the old guys, and we still dont know if he is gonna make it alone...


 ? ? ?@;---,----,--.-----.-------

[Falcon]

But clearly, as the book says, Slash was an active participant in the bands bloatification.

I agree 100%.

Of course Axl's not solely to blame,  the others are just as guilty for letting it happen.

[jimmythegent]

... and you are too dumb to remember its not my fault.

Oh Dave, nice insult.? Are you sure you want to go that route kiddo?

I dont have to show you again. I am not looking all over the net for the quote again like I did the last few times.?

Prove it or it remains open for debate.

You can think what ever you want but deep down inside y ou know that it was slashs idea.

I suppose that alleged pysche degree of yours allows you to know what I think "deep down inside".? Maybe you should use that alleged education on some self analyzation.

I producted it a while ago so that is all that matters.

Where??

As I've said a bazillion times, I could give a fuck whose idea it was.? That said, if you insist on laying blame, you better back it up.

brilliant post Falcon, I love it?

Didn't Slash reference in the Behind the music doco that Axl wanted the backing singers etc.. and the rest of the band didnt?

Slash must however (and Duff) take some blame for allowing this to happen. But it is clear for all to see that this was Axls influence, a further extention of his grandiose vision for Guns, turning his back on the dirty, raw sound that defined their early career

[dave-gnfnr2k]

... and you are too dumb to remember its not my fault.

Oh Dave, nice insult.? Are you sure you want to go that route kiddo?

I dont have to show you again. I am not looking all over the net for the quote again like I did the last few times.?

Prove it or it remains open for debate.

You can think what ever you want but deep down inside y ou know that it was slashs idea.

I suppose that alleged pysche degree of yours allows you to know what I think "deep down inside".? Maybe you should use that alleged education on some self analyzation.

I producted it a while ago so that is all that matters.

Where??

As I've said a bazillion times, I could give a fuck whose idea it was.? That said, if you insist on laying blame, you better back it up.

brilliant post Falcon, I love it?

Didn't Slash reference in the Behind the music doco that Axl wanted the backing singers etc.. and the rest of the band didnt?

Slash must however (and Duff) take some blame for allowing this to happen. But it is clear for all to see that this was Axls influence, a further extention of his grandiose vision for Guns, turning his back on the dirty, raw sound that defined their early career

Yes slash said that on BTM but it was typical slash and he was lying. Just like Adler was lying about how guns n roses formed. Adler claimed that He and Slash went to see Axl and Izzy and said damn we need to go get those guys and we would make a kick ass band and they claimed they went out and got them which we all know is a lie.

Axl and izzy were in the band first, then they got Duff and Duff told Axl and Izzy he know two guys from a band he used to play in (slash and Steven).

So you want to believe Stevens version on BTM too?

[Falcon]

Didn't Slash reference in the Behind the music doco that Axl wanted the backing singers etc.. and the rest of the band didnt?

Yep, sure did.?

Slash must however (and Duff) take some blame for allowing this to happen...

Absolutely, they are as much to blame for letting that happen as whomever thought of it in the first place.


Still waiting on a quote from Slash saying it was his idea originally Dave...

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Falcon I know how stupid you are and how fried your brain must be. But like I said, I have already proven this a few times and I am not looking for that quote again. I did a while ago and that shut you and your little cronies up, but now once again you claim it was not slash's idea. I really don't care that you want the quote.? I produced it before I am not looking for it again. Do you understand that or should I tell you in sign language? All those drugs you did, must have fried your brain like it did slash and duffs. People on this board said in this thread and in the past they remember Slash saying this. So get over it already.

[Falcon]

Falcon I know how stupid you are and how fried your brain must be.

Again with the insults, someone with your deep phychiatric knowledge shouldn't take things so personal.

But like I said, I have already proven this a few times and I am not looking for that quote again.

Again, where?? Just link it to where your posted them here.

I did a while ago and that shut you and your little cronies up..

No you didn't, I kept asking for a quote from Slash saying it was indeed his idea and you never produced it.

And when did I exactly get "cronies"??

but now once again you claim it was not slash's idea....

I never claimed that.? I just asked for slash's quotes taking responsibility.

... I produced it before I am not looking for it again.

Again, where?

Do you understand that or should I tell you in sign language?

I fully understand you refuse to post a quote backing your allegations, isn't there a phsychiatric term for
one who says things things that either aren't true or they can't base in fact??

Oh ya, dellusional.

All those drugs you did, must have fried your brain like it did slash and duffs.

A cop friend of mine always told me "When guilty, always deny and make counter accusations."

People on this board said in this thread and in the past they remember Slash saying this. So get over it already.

People on this board also said they saw Slash place blame elsewhere on BTM, so? the fuck what?

[Booker Floyd]

Falcon I know how stupid you are and how fried your brain must be. But like I said, I have already proven this a few times and I am not looking for that quote again.

Actually Dave, all that youve done is use the same excuse. 

Keep up the good work Falcon, always great to see you posting.