2002 re-emergance

[jimmythegent]

Just thinking about the logistics of releasing CD later this year and touring behind it.

From what we can ascertain presently, the band are not together in any capacity, be it rehearsing, putting final touches on or even just hanging out/socialising

In 2002 when Guns re-emerged with a tour, an appearance on MTV etc.. , what signs were displayed before this happened? Obviously there were shows prior to this, but did they display a "togetherness" in any way prior to announcing the tour etc..

In other words, what should we be looking out for if activity from GNR is looming?

[jameslofton29]

Well, if CD is really gonna be released this year, there are several things likely to occur. Legitimate rumors circulating in the media about CD's imminent release. A major, favorable cover story about Axl and the album. Possibly a song or two being leaked. Also, the release of the official tracklist. The tracklist for Illusions was released 2 or 3 months before the albums were released. GNR performing at SNL, Tonight Show, or Letterman with new material. Also, a single needs to be released a month or two before the release. Last, but not least, we will probably get some cryptic statement from Axl before the official announcement is made. None of the things I just mentioned has occured yet. Just a little more than 5 months left in the year. If they plan on doing it, they better get to work.

[jimmythegent]

Well, if CD is really gonna be released this year, there are several things likely to occur. Legitimate rumors circulating in the media about CD's imminent release. A major, favorable cover story about Axl and the album. Possibly a song or two being leaked. Also, the release of the official tracklist. The tracklist for Illusions was released 2 or 3 months before the albums were released. GNR performing at SNL, Tonight Show, or Letterman with new material. Also, a single needs to be released a month or two before the release. Last, but not least, we will probably get some cryptic statement from Axl before the official announcement is made. None of the things I just mentioned has occured yet. Just a little more than 5 months left in the year. If they plan on doing it, they better get to work.

yeah youre right, these are all things youd expect for a 'normal' release

However, as we know, this thing is far from normal

specifically what I am interested in here, is whether or not prior to new GNRs 2002 tour, there were any signs of band activity, or did they in fact just come together from nothing? (as Im sure there had been a considerable period of downtime back then as well)

[jameslofton29]

Jimmy, I'm not really sure what happened before the re-emergence. At that point in time, I had alot going on in my life and didn't go to any of the forums. I remember being shocked when my cousin's friend next door walked over to my house that day. She told me Axl had just performed at the VMA's. I didn't really believe her. I had to watch the VMA replay to see it myself. I know one thing about 2002. There was a huge buzz about it at the time. Gangbangers were talking about it, kids talking about it, even my uncle's drug dealer(he's in his late 50's) was talking about it. A huge missed opportunity by Axl. Had CD been released 1 to 4 months after the VMA performance, it would have shattered sales records.

[jimmythegent]

Jimmy, I'm not really sure what happened before the re-emergence. At that point in time, I had alot going on in my life and didn't go to any of the forums. I remember being shocked when my cousin's friend next door walked over to my house that day. She told me Axl had just performed at the VMA's. I didn't really believe her. I had to watch the VMA replay to see it myself. I know one thing about 2002. There was a huge buzz about it at the time. Gangbangers were talking about it, kids talking about it, even my uncle's drug dealer(he's in his late 50's) was talking about it. A huge missed opportunity by Axl. Had CD been released 1 to 4 months after the VMA performance, it would have shattered sales records.

Yeah I witnessed that performance on TV in New Zealand at the time James, myself and some buddys watched it (diehard Gunners fans all) and we were shocked and disgusted

That is without doubt the worst performance Axl has given - he sure blew it that night

It's a shame, because boots Ive heard of that tour are far superior - I think Axl was underbaked and complacent for that performance where he should have been leaving nothing to chance, giving the performance of a lifetime

[jameslofton29]

I agree Jimmy. The VMA performance was probably his worst performance. But he got the intended effect from it, a very HUGE buzz. I'll never understand why he just threw it away. He should not have came back until CD was ready. Because when he comes back and does another show before CD release, it wont have nearly as big of an impact as the 2002 VMA's did. On that night, and for weeks after it, people all over the world were talking about it, and he did nothing in return.

[jimmythegent]

I agree Jimmy. The VMA performance was probably his worst performance. But he got the intended effect from it, a very HUGE buzz. I'll never understand why he just threw it away. He should not have came back until CD was ready. Because when he comes back and does another show before CD release, it wont have nearly as big of an impact as the 2002 VMA's did. On that night, and for weeks after it, people all over the world were talking about it, and he did nothing in return.

I actually think that performance did the opposite and made him doubt himself even more, hence further delays

I mean, what must have he thought when he watched that performance critically later? It would likely cause all but the most dellusional of souls grave concern

[jameslofton29]

Yeah Jimmy, you make a good point. But it didnt matter how good or bad the performance was. Everybody(and I do mean everybody) was talking about Axl again. First time since 92 he had such a great buzz going. It was the perfect moment to release the record. His failures after this buzz is one of the strangest moments in the history of GNR. It was after he ignored this huge buzz that I started to question the existence of a full length album's worth of material.

[Mr. Nik™]

In other words, what should we be looking out for if activity from GNR is looming?

we must look forward for an album release later this year (quite the end of 2005), then in 2006 they'll have the time to reharsal, make promo interviews and other shit, and then start the tour

[ccorn69]

Well before the VMAs the played a lot of shows internationally, well not a lot but I mean they played the vegas new year shows, and rock n rio.  I'm not gonna speculate on the effects the vma performance had on axl.  I personnally enjoyed it a lot and was excited by it.

[nesquick]

I personnally enjoyed it a lot and was excited by it.

+1. I think it was great. Axl totally owned the ceremony. His charisma was immense that night. Musically the band sounded fantastic.

[DoubleTalkingJive]

Yeah Jimmy, you make a good point. But it didnt matter how good or bad the performance was. Everybody(and I do mean everybody) was talking about Axl again. First time since 92 he had such a great buzz going. It was the perfect moment to release the record. His failures after this buzz is one of the strangest moments in the history of GNR. It was after he ignored this huge buzz that I started to question the existence of a full length album's worth of material.

I agree, as bad or as great people may have thought the performance was, it was the right time for Axl to strike.  He should have had CD out later that year.  The buzz was incredible.  I too wasn't on forums yet but when I was watching the show and I got all of Jimmy Falons hints I was like no, could it be?  When he came out I was shocked, amazed and happy all at the same time.   

[jameslofton29]

DTJ, if he ever releases CD, and does interviews, I hope the first question asked is," What went wrong in 2002?" I'm not talking about the tour, the tour is basically irrelevant. Axl, and everyone in the GNR camp, should have seen the worldwide buzz, and capitalized on it. Is it possible Axl was misinformed about how much interest there was in a new album? Whatever the reason, you cant turn back time. I know this much, the GNR planets will never align so perfectly again. If he does another VMA's or does the Superbowl, people will say,"Oh, that again!" It wont be taken seriously. He's just gonna have to release the thing and sit back and watch the reaction.

[August 18th]

how can you people say that axl's performance at the vma's was bad?! i remember reading the rumours prior to that day and not really believing them, still i decided to check it out and even put my tape recorder on. in the pre-show, if you will, pink was talking about spotting buckethead and hoping that axl would be there, then the reporter quickly changed the subject, and i became excited as hell. then, towards the end of the show, jimmy fallon introduced guns n' roses, the curtain went up and the opening chords of welcome to the jungle got the crowd extatic, even the teenagers and i was on my feet in excitement. this was one of the greatest moments i have witnessed, sure the sound on welcome to the jungle could've been better, but his performance of madagascar and the joy of guns n' roses closing the vma's after ten years of silence completely overshadowed that. to me the VMA's in 2002 introduced the world to axl's talent again. not just anyone are asked to close the VMA's with no album out in a music scene that is ruled by hip hop and rnb.

[jameslofton29]

August, Axl wasnt at his best on that night. Admit it. But he could have lip synched the performance or performed in sign language. It didnt matter. The whole fucking planet was mesmerized by him, and he had no plan. Either he was oblivious to the chaos the performance caused or he just didn't realize he would get that great of a reaction. Either way, he blew it. I hope he fired every single person who was advising him at that point in time.

[W. Botaxl Rose]

I guess i would have to ask if the whole world was so mezmerized by botaxl & his VMA debacle, why were sales so sluggish for the ensuing North America tour? I saw the replacement GNR in a 1/2 empty arena that just months before had been PACKED for a RHCP/Foo Fighter show & is regularly soldout for other classic rock type acts.. I mean shouldn't all the venues of been sold out minutes after tickets went on sale like they do for the U2's & Bruce Springteens of the worlds if , as u say, everyone was talking, not laughing, about this NuGNR?

[jameslofton29]

BotAxl, here's why the tour failed. There wasn't an album out!! Simple as that. You cant deny the huge buzz surrounding his reappearance. People were energized! When people realized that an album wasn't coming out and that GNR was just doing a rehash of AFD with a few new songs played, the same new songs, people lost interest, QUICKLY. Thats why it failed. The interest was there, Axl just let it slip away. People didnt laugh during the VMA's, they started laughing when they realized Round 2 was a joke.

[W. Botaxl Rose]

So why do other classic rock type bands sellout arena's on a regular basis when they don't have an album to promote? I mean, GNR was the biggest band on the planet only 10 years prior & have the most dominant rock songs ever recorded in their catalogue. I wonder why people didn't flock to hear GNR play WTTJ, SCOM, PC,etc.......I wonder what the real could be? Hmmmmmmmmmmm.



And just because people r talking about u doesn't mean it's a good thing. I think the buzz was more of a WTF has he done to his face, hair, voice, & band? In fact, I'm pretty sure that's what the buzz was about.

[jameslofton29]

BotAxl, if you didnt feel a tingle in your spine when Axl showed up at the VMA's, you're not a true fan. The reason those classic rock bands(Eagles, Aerosmith,etc.) can tour without an album is because their fans dont care about hearing new material, they only care about the classics. GNR was a completely different thing. Fans were starved for new material. When people seen that a new album wasn't coming, alot of people lost interest in the tour.

[W. Botaxl Rose]

I luv it. Some guy on a message board telling me i must not be a true GnR fan!

  I was definitely interested to see those VMA's, but it was plain as day to me that botaxl had become something completely different than the guy who used to front my favorite band. Different in a bad, pathetic, freaky way.
  It has also become clear to me JamesLofton that u really have no clue what u r talking about when u post & make sweeping, made-up  generalizations to make your arguements sound good. How do u know that most GNR fans lost interest when there was no new album to promote? If GNR fans are so interested in new songs, why did GH's sell so well? Why didn't all those people go out to see dick fortus & fink play SCOM? I wonder, Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.