why i respect axl's perfectionism so much

[ppbebe]

My world is my fav. That female voice could be better.
Strictly speaking, I don't believe in "perfectness" or "forever" in art (human act) but I value the attempt to make perfect above them.

Yes, while I would not put Reznor in the same stratosphere with Davis or Hendrix or Dylan, he does fall on the level with Prince. Each can do it all and, the key, do it well. A tropical storm is landing on my house right now! 3-4 INCHES IN ABOUT 20 MINUTES.

Are you OK, mate?

Everyone is a bit too lenient.
Leonardo Da Vinci  is the representative of a real genius who displayed his exceptional talent in multifarious fields. Other top-notch artists of his time, Michelangelo, Raphael and such were great masters but no way in the hell the geniuses of Da Vinci's calibre. However it was Michelangelo who made the best work of the Renaissance in my eyes.

Whoa, on a musical genius, yes.
To me a musical genius, (here I don't mean that in playing guitar, singing, etc) is someone who has an ability to write great music with ease, as if he or she has a fountain of Music inside their head and constantly it overflows. I know a few people who play almost any instruments (actually one of them would turn everything, pencils, desks, chairs, cups, bottles, text books, into musical instruments) and without touching them, can write a decent piece for a full orchestra in score. Yet with struggling to get good ideas, they are no geniuses.

Trent is still at the level of a cut and paste genius. Prince is likely the one and seldom impress me.
Whether or not the artist is a genius doesn't mean a fart. The crucial point is whether the outcome is great or not.  Or rather it might be a bad thing to have a musical genius in a band cos it could prevent other members input from coming in and then the musical chemistry from arising.

In Theory two heads are better than one. Needless to say 7 talented and one red heads are.

[Elrothiel]

Hmm... well about the whole "genius" aspect, Im gonna have to totally and completely disagree. Being a genius, doesnt get defined if you can pick up any instrument and magically create a wonderful sound, like Hendrix, as well as the others you mentioned. What make someone a genius is when they can exude that other power through their music, even if the music itself isnt jaw-dropping perfect, it's about what is being exuded and what energy is being brought out, an that energy is from a place that the natural mind cant create, it's when you take your mind, and the eyes of your mind, into this other place that the mind in the natural can not experience or even touch, an when you bring that energy and power forth into whatever you are doing, is when the mind becomes genius. I think that the most troubling, tramatizing, mental-frustation and breakdowns, is when you are genius that can not find tools, ability, and ways, to release that energy. It's like painting a masterpiece in your head, an you try so hard with all your gut to release it, but when you try to find an outlet, it ends up a stick figure on a piece of paper- far short of societies call of genius. But it's something, that when the genius see's it, they can see what is misunderstood, they see the sanity in their insanity, where as to others it's insanity an no method to the madness, it's just worthless trash to them. This is something you can feel, when you look into the persons eyes, when you feel their energy, or listen to them talk without actually listening to their words, when they talk- it's as if they go off in a dreamy state, an when they move- you can see it in their motions, an when they sing- it goes through you. Genius, Axl Rose, totally. Maybe he cant find an outlet to release it, through guitar, or bass, talent doesnt define a genius, genius defines talent. Something can not make sense, but that object in itself suddenly makes sense, it becomes talent because of the genius, because of the energy that was brought to it, to where as if you look at- stripped down, it's just a mess. His flaws, and imperfections, are put under a microscope, and so watched and critiqued, as any famous person, that it's so completely un-natural. Ever find it hard to work when someones watching over your shoulder? Telling you how to do it, what's wrong with it, and how you should have done it? And in an artists defense, the thing I hate most, is when someone critiques and points out flaws in my work. I hate it when people point out something they think isnt right for my picture, or ask in an condescending voice "why did you that?" Maybe it's not the best thing on earth, but the feeling that comes out of me when Im going through the motions of drawing, is a beautiful feeling, the picture I see with my mind's eyes, not my physical eyes, is the most beautiful sight for words, but then if you take all that away- an just look at the crappy picture I drew- I can even see my picture sucks, but I dont look at it through normal eyes- I look at it through all that went into it, my mind's eyes that made that simple picture into a masterpiece, I look at what that picture is behind the lines, it may not LOOK like what was in my head but the experience/personality/and energy BEHIND the picture is the same. Maybe the reason why genius's self destruct is they cant find an outlet, an when they do, it's not good enough. You strive for perfection, they CAN be attained, but then someone comes along and tells you otherwise. Self-reliant, well, unless you live in a world with only you being the planet, that will never be true. Yeah, maybe other artists can preform alone, but the inspiration, motivation, thought, heart, direction, and drive, are from outside sources that brought them to that feeling an to that creativity and their outlet, that inspired their brains to explore in that other space. If it wasnt for other people, relationships, oberserving human kind, the world, then it will never have made those people be who they were, those songs- feelings- the feelings that brought on the guitar solos an music, would have never been if it werent for outside sources. There are different ways others can contribute to the work, whether it be by inspiration or experience, or help first-hand or help mentally. This is something Im so passionate about, the mind of a genius. I know I wrote a lot, an Im sure no one will read all this, but oh well, it's something I wanted to get out. The very first post to this thread caught my eye, an I totally agree with what was written. What draws me to Axl, is his mind out of the natural, you can just tell- you can feel it, that his mind goes into that other place, his energy is what makes his work art, what makes him a genius with all who he is, not just his work. An I will defend that, an him till the day I die. Kissing Axl's ass? yeah, anyday.

Oh my god! Yes!
I actually sat and read that whole block of text and it is 4AM, and I fucking agree with EVERY WORD YOU SAID! Man, and the thing about when you're trying to draw/paint/write and someone's lookin' over your shoulder, THAT IS SO TRUE! That's why I hated when my school had art trips to the Tate Modern and we had to sit there and copy a fucking painting in our sketchbooks, and these stupid old ladies would come up and stand behind you and look over your shoulder and you KNOW they're there! You don't turn around for fear of inducing the dreaded "So you're drawing? Lets see? Ah! You've missed a bit there! That color's a bit off.." AARRRGGHHH!!!  I HATE THAT SO FUCKING MUCH! Then you get the ones who just start talking to you going "Well I used to go to art school, back in the day....etc..." *eye twitch* I DON'T WANT TO FUCKIN' HEAR ABOUT WHEN YOU WENT TO ART SCHOOL! JUST LET ME DRAW! But you can't say that because then everyone will turn around and look at why you're screamin' and you can't just settle back down and draw again because people go "Why did you scream at that old lady? You're a bitch, you know that?" Jeez! That's the problem with being forced to go outside in a public place, and do ANYTHING that's remarkably creative because someone will come along and start talking to you, either by asking you questions all the fuckin' time, or by pointing out the flaws... I can't fuckin' stand it! Even my parents and brother do it! My friends do it! Even the ones who went to college with me and also find it annoying! And hell! Even my fuckin' tutor did it when I was painting my final piece for the End Of Course show. In the end I got so fed up of people saying "You should do this! You should do that! Ooooh! That's awesome!" that I made a huge sign saying "GO AWAY! I'm doing this MY way!" across three A1 pieces of paper in dark red ink, and barracaded my section off from everyone else with it. I managed to get a helluva lot more work done that day! In fact, I managed to finish it! And the hardest thing to do when painting is to know when to stop, so I think I did a good job. The tutors were pissed at me, but my friends understood although they all thought I'd gone a bit doolally.

And I think Axl's a fuckin' genius. Fuck all you who don't! I'd like to see y'all try and do all the things he's done!

[jabba2]

Did you hear Smile by Brian Wilson?

Smile was better the first time around. Im embarrassed for the singers Brian hired trying to duplicate vocals for the Beach Boys. They butchered alot of parts.

[D]

Yes, while I would not put Reznor in the same stratosphere with Davis or Hendrix or Dylan, he does fall on the level with Prince. Each can do it all and, the key, do it well. A tropical storm is landing on my house right now! 3-4 INCHES IN ABOUT 20 MINUTES.

I have to politely disagree here Madagas.

Reznor is a one style genius

where as Prince is a funk,R&B,rock,pop,jazz composer. Prince has written songs in just about every style so that puts him ahead of Reznor

plus Trent cant play guitar like Prince.

[madagas]

true.

[ppbebe]

I was working on, like, writing these ballads that I feel have really rich tapestries and stuff, and making sure each note, in effect, is right. Cos whether I?m using a lot of instrumentation and stuff or not, I?ll still write with minimalism. But it has to be right; it has to be the right note and it has to be held the right way, and it has to have the right effect, do you know what I mean?

K : I didn?t know you were such a perfectionist.

A : What people don?t understand is there was a perfectionist attitude to ?Appetite..?. There was a definite plan to that....

this the part you're re talking about MNR...

I don't feel that wanting something to be right is being a perfectionist.

and I find his reference to a 'perfectionist attitude", as he describes the making of AFD, to mean deliberate...

but thanks for the reference

I'm wondering if there is anything regarding the making of CD or any comment from Axl in recent years regarding making the album perfect or of him describing himself as  perfectionist....   seeing how it's a trait that seems to be so often and prevalently applied to him - especially in regards to the forthcoming album

Madam.
Oddly enough, no luck yet. The comment I mentioned was not the one MNR posted.
I think it was something along similar lines of  "well because I am such a perfectionist that why...."
Maybe it was in regards to the YUI, as I read so many articles old and new all at once a few years ago.
Bloody hell, I can't stand leaving a mystery unsolved.

For now, I quote a couple of comments that might hint his thoughts on perfection and production.

#1 Interview With Axl Rose - Rolling Stone August 1989
Q: So you practice safe sex?

"Practicing safe sex . . . .
I like the word practice. It means keep doing it, keep repeating the process, get it right. Practice makes perfect.
I don't know if it'll get perfect. But you can get a lot better. Just keep practicing."

#2 Axl Speaks- Rolling Stone, January 2000

"It's not an Axl Rose album, even if it's what I wanted it to be. Everybody is putting everything they've got into singing and building. Maybe I'm helping steer it to what it should be built like.''
        

[Saul]

Brian May called him a perfectionist and utterly meticulous in that interview he did a couple years back.

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

#1 Interview With Axl Rose - Rolling Stone August 1989
Q: So you practice safe sex?

"Practicing safe sex . . . .
I like the word practice. It means keep doing it, keep repeating the process, get it right. Practice makes perfect.
I don't know if it'll get perfect. But you can get a lot better. Just keep practicing."

 

heheh

thanks for the chuckle ppbebe
and about not being able to find the thing...  hmm, perhaps its just something 'we've' inferred/assumed over the years ourselves

and yes Saul, I recall about Brian May and Alice Cooper's comments... and who was it (Tommy or Richard) that mentioned going over 'every note' to make sure it was right

but what I was looking for would be a reference of perfectionism by Axl himself (regarding himself / his work)

 

[makane]

Im just wondering how the hell does August 15th know what Axl enjoys, what he wants to do and what he doesn't.
Maybe he hates the tracks on the new album and tries to get something out? I don't know, neither do you. don't act like you do, please.
all this guessing and speculating is getting bit too fuckin' far of anyones knowledge.

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

hey... what if its Geffen that is holding the measuring stick?

what if it is Geffen that is not satisfied yet?  (or was not until recently?)

i understand why we 'all' assume the 'hold up' is Axl's decision... but what if we are way off on that one?

how's that for some speculating? 

[ppbebe]

and about not being able to find the thing...  hmm, perhaps its just something 'we've' inferred/assumed over the years ourselves

No, shit, Madam.

I'm not that dupe.
It was rare for me to visit n read any GNR or whatever fan board until late 2003.
Even when I read interviews, I don't trust the parts that are not in direct speeches (between w quotation marks).
Besides, I remember reading it in doubt like you are now.
And I figured out that he was sorta joking like brain's recent one.

It was an article or well maybe a fake one....I don't know now.

[August 18th]

Im just wondering how the hell does August 15th know what Axl enjoys, what he wants to do and what he doesn't.
Maybe he hates the tracks on the new album and tries to get something out? I don't know, neither do you. don't act like you do, please.
all this guessing and speculating is getting bit too fuckin' far of anyones knowledge.

i'm just a fan of his, so chill out and go fuck some rein deer in finland.

[Saul]

Im just wondering how the hell does August 15th know what Axl enjoys, what he wants to do and what he doesn't.
Maybe he hates the tracks on the new album and tries to get something out? I don't know, neither do you. don't act like you do, please.
all this guessing and speculating is getting bit too fuckin' far of anyones knowledge.

i'm just a fan of his, so chill out and go fuck some rein deer in finland.

Wow. Thats a long way to travel just to fuck some reindeer. 

[jimmythegent]

Im just wondering how the hell does August 15th know what Axl enjoys, what he wants to do and what he doesn't.
Maybe he hates the tracks on the new album and tries to get something out? I don't know, neither do you. don't act like you do, please.
all this guessing and speculating is getting bit too fuckin' far of anyones knowledge.

i'm just a fan of his, so chill out and go fuck some rein deer in finland.

Wow. Thats a long way to travel just to fuck some reindeer.?

 

seriously, that was a bizarre comment??

[August 18th]

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not really. this chump has been slamming me for no reason in the thread about slash's grandad.

[Saul]

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not really. this chump has been slamming me for no reason in the thread about slash's grandad.

Oh , I know that guys from finland. I just meant it was a long way to go if I wanted to fuck some reindeer. 

[August 18th]

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not really. this chump has been slamming me for no reason in the thread about slash's grandad.

Oh , I know that guys from finland. I just meant it was a long way to go if I wanted to fuck some reindeer.?

oh, in that case may i suggest alaska.

[RustyCage]

well i'm not the one who will sound like a hypocrite when CD is out and you'll be kissing axl's ass.

You gotta be kidding? HAHAHA Anyone who knows me from other GNR forums knows I'm not going to kiss anyone's ass. If the album sucks, expect to read about it; if it is good, expect to hear due gratitude but do NOT expect me to be kissing Axl's ass for putting out a long overdue album. That's your job....

[RustyCage]

If you don't have anything intelligent to contribute, don't post just to get your damn post count up (rusty Cage).

Yeah uh huh, I really give a crap about bumping my post count up....

Maybe then I can recieve the "post king" crown? YAAAAY

The thread itself has no purpose....there are no grounds to suggest this album is delayed because of perfectionism and so, I added replies that were just as valuable!

[Saul]

If you don't have anything intelligent to contribute, don't post just to get your damn post count up (rusty Cage).

Yeah uh huh, I really give a crap about bumping my post count up....

Maybe then I can recieve the "post king" crown? YAAAAY

The thread itself has no purpose....there are no grounds to suggest this album is delayed because of perfectionism and so, I added replies that were just as valuable!

when did this thread STOP being about fucking reindeer in finland?!