why i respect axl's perfectionism so much

[August 18th]

you can say what you like about axl wasting time when spending so much time on one project, but personally i find that perfection is a good thing. i have heard my fair share of half-assed and disappointing albums in my life and it's annoying as hell when you've been waiting for the record and it doesn't deliver. i find myself wishing that more artists would take more time with their albums, they owe it to the fans to give it their all and not rush it. now, this doesn't only apply in the music industry. i find perfection to be a good thing on a personal level as well. perfection means not settling for just anything, it means going for what you want, going for the gusto and never settle for less. i won't go into details but i can tell you that because i have put certain restrains on myself, waiting things out and sacrifizing offers from other for the sake of "perfecting" things to get my dream girl, i now just might get her. i could've had others in that long period of time i have been waiting for her, but thanx to the fact that i have been patient and selective when it comes to girls i can now feel very good about not just settling for random girls, but getting what i want as a result of my personal sacrifices. this is why i and i like to and can somehow relate to axl and his decision not to act because other want you to, but to wait until things feel just right. so many others don't, and they end up regretting it in the end. if that didn't make much sense, well at least i got it off my chest. i guess i just like comparing myself to people like axl, whom i respect so much.

[bad tripp]

Just remember even though he can strive for perfection that doesnt always result in a great album.  Millions of people have millions of opinions on how a track should sound and even the CD can be great he sure as hell cant please everyone, and have a perfect album.

[willow]

I agree with you on the perfection thing, but I am one of those people who doesn't think an artist owes a fan anything.
I am also in agreement with to many half A@# cd's out there. By great artists. VR is a great start! They all have the talent to put out a great cd, but it will never happen. They don't take the time or take a chance!!! And thats why they are no longer in gnr.

[jameslofton29]

Perfection is nothing but a matter of personal opinion. What's perfect to one person is total shit to another. Thats just the way it is. And if Axl's infinite delay is really due to trying to achieve perfection, it brings up an interesting question: At what point did he think Illusions was perfect? Two great albums, there's no doubt about that, but the albums had flaws, and he released them anyways. If he could go back, do you think he would have delayed their release so he could do "finishing touches"?

[August 18th]

I agree with you on the perfection thing, but I am one of those people who doesn't think an artist owes a fan anything.
I am also in agreement with to many half A@# cd's out there. By great artists. VR is a great start! They all have the talent to put out a great cd, but it will never happen. They don't take the time or take a chance!!! And thats why they are no longer in gnr.

excactly. that is the excact reason why they are no longer in gnr and why VR seems disappointing. like axl said in the 2002 gnronline interview, slash backed away from everything that had potential because he just couldn't be assed to do it.

[August 18th]

Perfection is nothing but a matter of personal opinion. What's perfect to one person is total shit to another. Thats just the way it is. And if Axl's infinite delay is really due to trying to achieve perfection, it brings up an interesting question: At what point did he think Illusions was perfect? Two great albums, there's no doubt about that, but the albums had flaws, and he released them anyways. If he could go back, do you think he would have delayed their release so he could do "finishing touches"?

yes. as he's said himself, he was under alot of pressure with the illusion albums and they suffered as a consequence. that is what he's trying not to do with chinese democracy, cause he doesn't want to go through that again. he won't release it until it is perfect in his eyes. besides i think he just enjoys recording it and having something to do with it on a daily basis. this album is his baby. he wants to continue working on it because he enjoys the material and the recording so much. maybe that's part of the reason he is in no rush to get it out.

[RustyCage]

Or how about I give you the real deal to this so called "perfecting"?

The fact is that he hasn't been working 24/7 to perfect this album, he simply "wasn't ready".... How perfect did those demo's become from him driving over them?

The thread become full of bullshit once one person said that the reason the old guys aren't in the band is because they didn't want to perfect the music......

Well.....if they were still in the band, they would be fed up with this procrastination bullshit. I hate to break it to ya but here is a bit of a taste of reality, this album isn't going to be "perfect". No album is and never will be. You can't please everyone. Some people like bass, some people don't, some people like techno, some don't. Fact is this, CD will not live up to the hype that the media and certain fans(you) are surrounding it with. I would be surpised if it sucked but not suprised when it is a bit of a disappointment.

Funny how you start this thread but then all the VR bashing starts. Until you can do better, don't bitch about a band that actually does shit! Just sit with your thumb in your mouth waiting for your fool's gold (CD)

[August 18th]

Or how about I give you the real deal to this so called "perfecting"?

The fact is that he hasn't been working 24/7 to perfect this album, he simply "wasn't ready".... How perfect did those demo's become from him driving over them?

The thread become full of bullshit once one person said that the reason the old guys aren't in the band is because they didn't want to perfect the music......

Well.....if they were still in the band, they would be fed up with this procrastination bullshit. I hate to break it to ya but here is a bit of a taste of reality, this album isn't going to be "perfect". No album is and never will be. You can't please everyone. Some people like bass, some people don't, some people like techno, some don't. Fact is this, CD will not live up to the hype that the media and certain fans(you) are surrounding it with. I would be surpised if it sucked but not suprised when it is a bit of a disappointment.

Funny how you start this thread but then all the VR bashing starts. Until you can do better, don't bitch about a band that actually does shit! Just sit with your thumb in your mouth waiting for your fool's gold (CD)

CD's hype is well deserved, axl is a creative genius and songs like madagascar have already been labeled "epic" by music journalists. this album will live up to its hype, believe me.

[RustyCage]

Or how about I give you the real deal to this so called "perfecting"?

The fact is that he hasn't been working 24/7 to perfect this album, he simply "wasn't ready".... How perfect did those demo's become from him driving over them?

The thread become full of bullshit once one person said that the reason the old guys aren't in the band is because they didn't want to perfect the music......

Well.....if they were still in the band, they would be fed up with this procrastination bullshit. I hate to break it to ya but here is a bit of a taste of reality, this album isn't going to be "perfect". No album is and never will be. You can't please everyone. Some people like bass, some people don't, some people like techno, some don't. Fact is this, CD will not live up to the hype that the media and certain fans(you) are surrounding it with. I would be surpised if it sucked but not suprised when it is a bit of a disappointment.

Funny how you start this thread but then all the VR bashing starts. Until you can do better, don't bitch about a band that actually does shit! Just sit with your thumb in your mouth waiting for your fool's gold (CD)

CD's hype is well deserved, axl is a creative genius and songs like madagascar have already been labeled "epic" by music journalists. this album will live up to its hype, believe me.

Follow the yellow brick road. And don't forget your ruby slippers......"There's no place like reality, there's no place like reality, there's no place like reality."
 

[dolphin]

Or how about I give you the real deal to this so called "perfecting"?

The fact is that he hasn't been working 24/7 to perfect this album, he simply "wasn't ready".... How perfect did those demo's become from him driving over them?

The thread become full of bullshit once one person said that the reason the old guys aren't in the band is because they didn't want to perfect the music......

Well.....if they were still in the band, they would be fed up with this procrastination bullshit. I hate to break it to ya but here is a bit of a taste of reality, this album isn't going to be "perfect". No album is and never will be. You can't please everyone. Some people like bass, some people don't, some people like techno, some don't. Fact is this, CD will not live up to the hype that the media and certain fans(you) are surrounding it with. I would be surpised if it sucked but not suprised when it is a bit of a disappointment.

Funny how you start this thread but then all the VR bashing starts. Until you can do better, don't bitch about a band that actually does shit! Just sit with your thumb in your mouth waiting for your fool's gold (CD)

Rustycage is Slash

Hi Slash

[August 18th]

Or how about I give you the real deal to this so called "perfecting"?

The fact is that he hasn't been working 24/7 to perfect this album, he simply "wasn't ready".... How perfect did those demo's become from him driving over them?

The thread become full of bullshit once one person said that the reason the old guys aren't in the band is because they didn't want to perfect the music......

Well.....if they were still in the band, they would be fed up with this procrastination bullshit. I hate to break it to ya but here is a bit of a taste of reality, this album isn't going to be "perfect". No album is and never will be. You can't please everyone. Some people like bass, some people don't, some people like techno, some don't. Fact is this, CD will not live up to the hype that the media and certain fans(you) are surrounding it with. I would be surpised if it sucked but not suprised when it is a bit of a disappointment.

Funny how you start this thread but then all the VR bashing starts. Until you can do better, don't bitch about a band that actually does shit! Just sit with your thumb in your mouth waiting for your fool's gold (CD)

CD's hype is well deserved, axl is a creative genius and songs like madagascar have already been labeled "epic" by music journalists. this album will live up to its hype, believe me.

Follow the yellow brick road. And don't forget your ruby slippers......"There's no place like reality, there's no place like reality, there's no place like reality."
 

well i'm not the one who will sound like a hypocrite when CD is out and you'll be kissing axl's ass.

and dolphin, is that why he called me a cracka?

[August 18th]

Funny how you start this thread but then all the VR bashing starts. Until you can do better, don't bitch about a band that actually does shit! Just sit with your thumb in your mouth waiting for your fool's gold (CD)

i didn't even mention VR until that girl mentioned them. what the fuck did you even come in this thread for?

[Guns N RockMusic]

wow, another thread hi-jacked by Axl and VR bashers, big suprise!.  I agree that perfection is impossible to attain and I've stated that before, but that doesn't mean nor has it ever been stated by Axl that perfection is his goal and the reason for the delay of Chinese Democracy.  Some of you need to learn to take the high-road and not post useless responses again and again.  All that will result in is the inevitable locking of another thread by the moderators.  Chinese Democracy will be released when its released, until then all parties should refrain from comparing VR to the new GN'R because there's nothing to compare to YET.  It's a damn shame to see these forums continually bogged down by idiots who gain pleasure out of attempting to interupt the discussion someone else has started.  If you don't have anything intelligent to contribute, don't post just to get your damn post count up (rusty Cage).

[August 18th]

wow, another thread hi-jacked by Axl and VR bashers, big suprise!.? I agree that perfection is impossible to attain and I've stated that before, but that doesn't mean nor has it ever been stated by Axl that perfection is his goal and the reason for the delay of Chinese Democracy.? Some of you need to learn to take the high-road and not post useless responses again and again.? All that will result in is the inevitable locking of another thread by the moderators.? Chinese Democracy will be released when its released, until then all parties should refrain from comparing VR to the new GN'R because there's nothing to compare to YET.? It's a damn shame to see these forums continually bogged down by idiots who gain pleasure out of attempting to interupt the discussion someone else has started.? If you don't have anything intelligent to contribute, don't post just to get your damn post count up (rusty Cage).

so true. let this be the last post that is off-topic in this thread cause i really don't want it locked.

[jameslofton29]

August, you're right about the Illusions albums. There definitely was real pressure involved, and that could possibly be why it was rushed and the flaws were ignored. But your comments about Axl not ever letting that happen again are false. It happened two years later with TSI. Why this album was even released still amazes me. They must have had some contractual obligation to release it. No one in the band (including Axl) gave a shit about this album. Take Axl's vocals off of a couple songs and it almost becomes a Duff solo album. I have always been intrigued by this album, because it shows their disinterest, and the fact that no one in the band had absolutely no idea what direction they should go in. I'm not against the idea of a cover album, but half these songs are Illusion rejects. Half of TSI was on the first released tracklists for Illusions, but there wasn't enough room left on the discs for them to fit, so they scrapped them. GNR needed to re-establish themselves in the face of grunge in 93-94, and all we got was a dated cover album. TSI falls very short of the word perfection.

[Dust N Rose]

August, you're right about the Illusions albums. There definitely was real pressure involved, and that could possibly be why it was rushed and the flaws were ignored. But your comments about Axl not ever letting that happen again are false. It happened two years later with TSI. Why this album was even released still amazes me. They must have had some contractual obligation to release it. No one in the band (including Axl) gave a shit about this album. Take Axl's vocals off of a couple songs and it almost becomes a Duff solo album. I have always been intrigued by this album, because it shows their disinterest, and the fact that no one in the band had absolutely no idea what direction they should go in. I'm not against the idea of a cover album, but half these songs are Illusion rejects. Half of TSI was on the first released tracklists for Illusions, but there wasn't enough room left on the discs for them to fit, so they scrapped them. GNR needed to re-establish themselves in the face of grunge in 93-94, and all we got was a dated cover album. TSI falls very short of the word perfection.

Illusions weren't perfect, they were very promising though and the world was expecting GN'R.
The world now doesn't expect GN'R anymore so a breathtaking album (not really a perfect, but something similar to Dark side of the Moon or Back in Black) is needed to make GN'R once again the greast rock band in the world.

[jameslofton29]

New Rose, I agree. Illusions showed that the sky was the limit rgarding the band's potential. Unfortunately, it ended up being just a brief glimpse.

[willow]

Yeah thanks to band members that didn't want to get involved and the record company pushing to get it out!!

[DoubleTalkingJive]

If Illusions wasn't pushed to get out, it might not have seen the light of day if it were up to Axl.   I agree, I love his attention to detail and the fact he want's it to be perfect but in his mind it seems it never is.   He needs someone else or many other people to take over finally say hey, this is great, release it and Axl has to listen.   

BTW, I hate the fact VR was brought up in here, they have a kick ass album and are kicking the world's ass right now, I wish people could see that sometimes just plain, straight out rock in roll songs can be great too and VR's songs are.. doesn't always have to be a, completely different sounding songs, 20 changes in each song, 10 min songs, etc to be a great album.

[jameslofton29]

DTJ, I agree 100%. Although I'm not a big VR fan, I respect the fact that they are out there contributing to the music world. I'm also glad that some members of GNR are still in the public eye doing what they love. I just wish Axl could do the same.