the chinese democracy album cover (let's talk about it...)

[jameslofton29]

Twisted Nerve, its a very good idea. In this day and age of low morality and standards, I dont think the 89 massacre cover would be banned. If Axl ever takes any of my advice, he should choose this. Imagine walking into the record store, and seeing a huge banner of that. People who didn't even know GNR would go take a look. It would probably sell a million copies with that cover alone.

[Slashisthebest]

yeah i just put that red one as my backgrond on my comp, hella sick lookin

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

anything related to chinese power , or chinese supposed supremacy on the world would be
- controversial
- true in some ways

this is the perfect time to release this cd with THIS title.
china's everywhere
in the economy
in the diplomacy
in the politics
...

good.good.

[shaun]

Here we go again... here is my CD cover:
http://www.truecolor.741.com/CD_COVER.html

[snakepiter]

gentleman.......gentleman.....forget it the album will not be called chinese democracy and neither will have stuff related to it.....it was only a working title for it at that time....

[jameslofton29]

snakepiter, we all know that the album isnt about China. CD is a metaphor. To me, its the perfect title for the project. And if thats the name of the album, Axl might as well go all out and have a chinese reference on the cover. I do agree with you about CD possibly being just a working title. I've mentioned that possibility here before. In Some of Sanctuary's press releases , there is no mention of CD, only a 'forthcoming' GNR album. If its forthcoming or not remains to be seen. Axl sure knows how to pick mysterious titles for the project. Remember 2000 Intentions? You know how intending to do something is completely different than actually doing it? Then Axl comes up with a title of something that will never exist. But if he was going to change the name, he should have done it after the 2002 tour. Its too late now. CD is a pop culture joke. Everyone knows about it. Changing the name now would lower album sales.

[August 18th]

there was a thread a long time ago with fans creating covert arts and posting them on this board. 2 of them were absolutely faboulous. take a look:





absolutely exeptional. I think the record should be red, red like intensity, like fire, like strengh, red like anger and love.

the second one looks great. very controversial though, with the red commie stars and everything, but hasn't guns n' roses always been controversial?
i'm 100% sure axl will pick the best cover possible, after all this project has taken 10 years of his life to make. it's his love child, in his own words, hopefully soon they will "wrap up the baby".

[Rob]

I think the red one looks pretty badass.  I doubt the title won't be Chinese Democracy.  The 2002 tour was called the Chinese Democracy Tour.  I think that pretty much confirmed the title of the album...of course that was almost 3 years ago.

[shaun]

there was a thread a long time ago with fans creating covert arts and posting them on this board. 2 of them were absolutely faboulous. take a look:





absolutely exeptional. I think the record should be red, red like intensity, like fire, like strengh, red like anger and love.

The 2nd cover down of the 2 looks cool. Reminds of the End of Days cover art work


the second one looks great. very controversial though, with the red commie stars and everything, but hasn't guns n' roses always been controversial?
i'm 100% sure axl will pick the best cover possible, after all this project has taken 10 years of his life to make. it's his love child, in his own words, hopefully soon they will "wrap up the baby".

[makemyday]

A fan-made, but really good:

[TWOIFBYSEA]

there was a thread a long time ago with fans creating covert arts and posting them on this board. 2 of them were absolutely faboulous. take a look:





absolutely exeptional. I think the record should be red, red like intensity, like fire, like strengh, red like anger and love.

Amazing......awesome job.........

[Felix da Housecat]

If you just want a cool image you do not fully comprehend the importance of the Global Image Economy . Indeed, the erroneous use of the kamikaze pilot is just one example of issues of representation and how one culture depicts another.

The Tiananmen Square Massacre image is loaded with preconceived emotion. While an important reflection of the way in which the individual conceives of his or her humanity,? I would not want to see it recontextualized for a Guns N' Roses album cover. That would be cheap and distasteful. We have stripped so many ideas of their emotional energy, we do not really respond to them anymore. Iconography does not have to be shocking to garner widespread attention, just intelligent. Granted that, the importance of a message depends in part on the number and quality of the people able to receive it.

It would probably sell a million copies with that cover alone

jameslofton29 , can you quantify this? This is not to discredit you, I am interested, has there ever been evidence to support such a claim?

In contrast, a b+w documentary style photograph of an anonymous bike leaning on an anonymous wall with a GN'R tag thrown up, difficult to date but not to distinguish, still retains an historical context. It has broad aesthetic appeal (this includes as many subgroups as possible). It is a moral message hidden behind a simple scene: individualism vs. collectivism. It conveys authenticity.

IndiannaRose , A metal case would suggest appropriate durability for an album this long in the making ;)? I agree, materials invite or enable particular expression. The plastic jewel box is becoming extinct and all but irrelevant in an age of digitally acquired music. With changing consumer trends no one really knows if music packaging will be around in a few years. Trent Reznor understands this. Then again, the book has survived...

there was a thread a long time ago with fans creating covert arts and posting them on this board. 2 of them were absolutely faboulous. take a look:





absolutely exeptional. I think the record should be red, red like intensity, like fire, like strengh, red like anger and love.

Amazing......awesome job.........

Sorry, but if this is your idea of "absolutely exceptional" you haven't developed a very sophisticated visual vocabulary.
How is this relevant?
How is this emotional?
How is this memorable?
Do you really think this has any psychological appeal to the viewer? Is this the best possible visual expression of the essence of 'Chinese Democracy'? I see noise and ambiguity, concerned more with visual attraction than function. If anything, they are apolitical and non-committal. In other words, the design is in control of you, you are not in control of the design. If you can't manage spatial sensitivity and simplicity, you lose control and create complexity.

I am reminded of the collapse of the Mayan civilization; toward the end everything became "fake". Their usefulness of art shifted and no one knows why. Art was elaborate but had no use. Similar to the frivolous ornamentation now found on a pair of Nike sneakers or the computer software driven "oh-mi-gawd-its-sooooo-koooool" graphics of superficial pop acts. Something that was at one time full is now empty. Design is intention and purpose. Photoshop? is no substitute for design process. The painting isn't on the painting as much as the process is what matters.

Now, back to my Claustrum and Traur Zot cd.

[mentalradio]

"It is a moral message hidden behind a simple scene: individualism vs. collectivism. It conveys authenticity."

Are you referring to the picture above? If I may ask, how do you derive that interpretation from that scene? I totally agree that simplicity works best. But, many of us uncouth, ruffian(ly) GnR fans might not be sophisticated enough to think on that level, no matter the psychological impact that type of picture MIGHT carry. Plus, I'm not sure if that particular picture is 'universal' enough to carry such a message (to a wider audience). I know most Chinese people would likely see it as a simple bike leaning against a simple wall. (Very practical those crafty Chinese people, they are...)



Personally, I like the "red" artistic picture. I "see" a lot of layers in that picture that could be interpreted (consciously, sub-consciously, or un-consciously) in many, many ways. For example, the US flag going down in flames, in the upper right-hand corner an "image" that could be interpreted as christ-like, etc... Plus, the overall image, to me anyways, seems to convey upheaval, war, destruction, those kinds of things. I like it!?

[jameslofton29]

A U.S. flag going down in flames is a shitty idea. I'm sure the anti-american GNR fanbase would love it though. But it wont happen. If Axl wants his hopes and dreams of CD to go down in flames, he'll take your advice. The american backlash to that type of cover would be so great it would destroy GNR permanently. Axl's not stupid.

[jimmythegent]

If you just want a cool image you do not fully comprehend the importance of the Global Image Economy . Indeed, the erroneous use of the kamikaze pilot is just one example of issues of representation and how one culture depicts another.

The Tiananmen Square Massacre image is loaded with preconceived emotion. While an important reflection of the way in which the individual conceives of his or her humanity,? I would not want to see it recontextualized for a Guns N' Roses album cover. That would be cheap and distasteful. We have stripped so many ideas of their emotional energy, we do not really respond to them anymore. Iconography does not have to be shocking to garner widespread attention, just intelligent. Granted that, the importance of a message depends in part on the number and quality of the people able to receive it.

It would probably sell a million copies with that cover alone

jameslofton29 , can you quantify this? This is not to discredit you, I am interested, has there ever been evidence to support such a claim?

In contrast, a b+w documentary style photograph of an anonymous bike leaning on an anonymous wall with a GN'R tag thrown up, difficult to date but not to distinguish, still retains an historical context. It has broad aesthetic appeal (this includes as many subgroups as possible). It is a moral message hidden behind a simple scene: individualism vs. collectivism. It conveys authenticity.

IndiannaRose , A metal case would suggest appropriate durability for an album this long in the making ? I agree, materials invite or enable particular expression. The plastic jewel box is becoming extinct and all but irrelevant in an age of digitally acquired music. With changing consumer trends no one really knows if music packaging will be around in a few years. Trent Reznor understands this. Then again, the book has survived...

there was a thread a long time ago with fans creating covert arts and posting them on this board. 2 of them were absolutely faboulous. take a look:





absolutely exeptional. I think the record should be red, red like intensity, like fire, like strengh, red like anger and love.

Amazing......awesome job.........

Sorry, but if this is your idea of "absolutely exceptional" you haven't developed a very sophisticated visual vocabulary.
How is this relevant?
How is this emotional?
How is this memorable?
Do you really think this has any psychological appeal to the viewer? Is this the best possible visual expression of the essence of 'Chinese Democracy'? I see noise and ambiguity, concerned more with visual attraction than function. If anything, they are apolitical and non-committal. In other words, the design is in control of you, you are not in control of the design. If you can't manage spatial sensitivity and simplicity, you lose control and create complexity.

I am reminded of the collapse of the Mayan civilization; toward the end everything became "fake". Their usefulness of art shifted and no one knows why. Art was elaborate but had no use. Similar to the frivolous ornamentation now found on a pair of Nike sneakers or the computer software driven "oh-mi-gawd-its-sooooo-koooool" graphics of superficial pop acts. Something that was at one time full is now empty. Design is intention and purpose. Photoshop? is no substitute for design process. The painting isn't on the painting as much as the process is what matters.

Now, back to my Claustrum and Traur Zot cd.

hey I enjoyed reading that - it was very educational and made me look at album art in a bit of a different way 

[mentalradio]

"A U.S. flag going down in flames is a shitty idea. I'm sure the anti-american GNR fanbase would love it though."

It's no better or worse than putting the Tiananmen "Tank" picture on the cover of CD. How lame, pretentious, self-serving, and America(centric) can THAT picture be?

Besides, why did you choose to criticize that particular statement of mine anyways? I don't know that thats' what the picture represents, and neither did I offer a statement stating nor suggesting that it would be a good idea to put such a picture on the cover of CD. All I offered was my interpretation of the pic.

[jameslofton29]

Felix, the 'Tianhamen Square Massacre' cover I described is best suited for the album. Here's the reasons. A cover like that, as far as I know, has never been done before. Sure, it would have major shock value, but in this culture of filth that we now live in, it could easily signify the sign of the times. Plus, if you'll look back, the massacre was one of the most covered up stories of our generation. It was the most disgusting tragedy in the worlwide history of Democracy movements. It is still not known exactly how many people were murdered. Almost a week went by before the story leaked out of China. Chinese troops standing in front of thousands of peaceful demonstrators and mowing them down with machine guns is a horror that hadn't been seen since Hitler and Stalin. The sad thing is, the world did not fully condemn this action. It was a minor blip on the global radar screen. Sixteen years later, there is still no memorial or tribute to honor the innocent victims from that fateful day who's only dream was to protest in peace. Coincidentally, or not, this is when china became a major player on the world stage. by using this image, Axl would ensure that the world never forgets this atrocity.

[jameslofton29]

mentalradio, after reading your previous posts, i did misinterpret your comments. Sorry about that. As far as labeling my ides "lame", I never mentioned a Tank cover. I mentioned using a very graphic photo of the massacre.

[mentalradio]

"As far as labeling my ides "lame", I never mentioned a Tank cover. I mentioned using a very graphic photo of the massacre."

No offense, but I'd make the same argument regardless of the type of "Tiananmen" picture used. I think it would be very self-serving and pretentious on Axl's (GnR's) part to use such a picture. To me, using that type of picture would be no different than all the Anti-American propaganda that is spewn in the media throughout the world, when most people don't (and probably never can) have a full appreciation of what TRUE American ideals represent.

Vice-versa, the fact is that most of us outside of China can never have a full understanding or appreciation of the broad context of events that led to the Tiananmen incident.

Therefore, it would be a little foolish to use such a picture to try and convey some type of message about Democracy, when all that we would be able to do is look at such a picture, and interpret it, based on preconceived (not objective, and certainly not subjective) notions about what Tiananmen was all about. Nothing universal about using something like that. I guess that's why I always like the "basic" "Guns" and Roses" picture. It's very universal and does not really apply to any particular situation or context. Simply, it suggests masculine/feminine, aggression/passivity, war/peace, etc... To me, anyways...

Sorry for being long-winded and "self-serving" with my arguments. 

[jameslofton29]

Since Tianhamen isn't a widely known event, and those that know about it have unanswered questions about the occurence. I think GNR using an image from it would bring it back to the publics attention. There has never been a public debate about what went on there. With China aspiring to be a superpower, I think the time is right for a debate on the subject. The only downside to using such a cover is the fact that the album would probably be banned in China. It would sell very well on the Chinese black market.