Wrestling...thats right, Wrestling!

[Gnrfan]

i think that christian should be champion although i have enjoyed abyss title run. i hate sting i wish he would just piss off. Abyss is a monster and he should stay that way. he doesn't need a friend.

joe vs angle - personally i'm over it. i thought their first match was awesome and the second one was too but it was like watching the same match. i hope that joe goes over on his way to a really good and long feud with Christian. But the whole Angle vs joe dream match thing is old and i'd prefer to see Angle fight Christopher Daniels or AJ Styles

Jeff Hardy is an awesome performer as good as any on his day. Yeah he can go from spot to spot but i fucking love those spots. put it this way a ladder / TLC match without Jeff Hardy's name involved is a second rate match IMO

[Sober_times]

Just a little rant type thingy:

So the TNA chants were loud again at RAW this week, mainly through the "great" Rosie vs. Trump Match. God how lame was that?

Well now they say Hogan vs. Khali?? I hope not, that would suck. I like seeing hogan in a match for nostalgia purposes (he looks better than ric flair at least, god he looks horrible) and wish they would put him against someone that can semi-carry him through it. Oh and Khali sucked on Smackdown and will continue to suck on Raw. That was a great talent pick up there Vince.

So now it looks like we got two snoozers for Wrestlemania already, Hogan vs. Khali and The Donald's guy vs. Vince's guy. Well verdict is still out on the last one.

If they don't add anyone else in DX right now, than i hope they push something for HBK against edge or ortan or both at wrestlemania. Than have him take a lighter load after wrestlemania and bring on a new guy for DX (if your gonna keep it around) until HHH gets back than HBK can take his layoff. I know thats a long time but put HBK in more of a managerial position or something so he can rest up. DX would be a great way to push CM Punk. Its pretty "over" right now. Or just debut someone in dx during or after a rumble handi-capped match. Than yet another tag teamer at wrestlemania and than Michaels can take a step back as the new guy has been pushed over and can now be the regular dx performer until Triple H gets back with Michaels being kind of a backseat driver, since he wants a rest up. I dunno i'm just bullshittin here.

I hope they give the tag titles to Cryme Time soon, they seem to be going over ok, that way you can actually have a tag division for a tag belt? match at wrestlemania. Whens the last time that happened? Honestly i can't remember. Now thats either because its been awhile or because it sucked.

Who's on the roster right now that you think could be in this Donald vs. Vince thing??? The only reason Donald is doing it is to promote his show, so i think they'll have an apprentice contestant somehow involved, whether said person is involved in the actual match (performer) or otherwise. I'm interested to see who you guys think will be in this match. If they pick decent talent, the build-up may suck but the match may be decent. I hope they dont do somekind of apprentice shit with one of donald's apprentices vs. like Coach as Vince's apprentice.

And thats about it.?

[sweet616]

jeff hardy as good as any? am been punked arnt i? wheres ashton?

[pilferk]

Who's on the roster right now that you think could be in this Donald vs. Vince thing??? The only reason Donald is doing it is to promote his show, so i think they'll have an apprentice contestant somehow involved, whether said person is involved in the actual match (performer) or otherwise. I'm interested to see who you guys think will be in this match. If they pick decent talent, the build-up may suck but the match may be decent. I hope they dont do somekind of apprentice shit with one of donald's apprentices vs. like Coach as Vince's apprentice.

Shane vs Ivanka?

 

[Hammy]

Jeff Hardy is an awesome performer as good as any on his day. Yeah he can go from spot to spot but i fucking love those spots. put it this way a ladder / TLC match without Jeff Hardy's name involved is a second rate match IMO

The guy is a spots guy, no doubt, back in the day that worked to an extent.  Now though he's in the Sabu category where he blows far too many spots.  And to claim a Ladder Match without him in it is second rate is ludicrous.  You see him in one of those matches and yes, you are guaranteed he is going to do a crazy spot or 2, but what about the rest of the match.  With a Ladder Match, a really great one, i want a good balance of wrestling along with some good spots, guys capable of those kind of matches are Shawn Michaels, Triple H, The Rock, Chris Benoit, Kurt Angle, Christopher Daniels, Edge, the list goes on.  Give me Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels in a Ladder Match and i guarantee you i won't be asking "Where's Jeff Hardy?"

[Neemo]

that one kurt angle/shane mcmahon match was the best ever for spots

[Neemo]

The thing i find with Jeff Hardy is that the majority of his moves look sooo damn fake....he misses the swanton most of the time and even if he did hit it right it wouldnt hurt....and his leg scissor takedown is always shaky at best

[Gnrfan]

jeff hardy as good as any? am been punked arnt i? wheres ashton?

Jeff Hardy is an awesome performer as good as any on his day. Yeah he can go from spot to spot but i fucking love those spots. put it this way a ladder / TLC match without Jeff Hardy's name involved is a second rate match IMO

Give me Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels in a Ladder Match and i guarantee you i won't be asking "Where's Jeff Hardy?"

haha i would! personally i think the TLC matches are the best range of matches ever in the 'E' and the common mainstays are Jeff Hardy and Edge!

On his day he produces matches that no one forgets.

HBK in a ladder match . . why so he can do a splash where his knees hit the ground about an hour before him. or an elbow drop from one rung further up than the turnbuckle

I agree hardy is a spot guy . . but so was RVD in ECW and so is AJ Styles in Big Matches. Its entertaining.

Ladder matches are all about those crazy moments and when Jeff Hardy is in a match like that you will look forward to it more than John Cena vs HHH coz they won't take the big bump nor will do anything nuts . . thats my point.

If your talking wrestling talent then year he sucks but he has never been that. he is a daredevil who has the crowd on their feet every time he comes to the ring coz they know at any given time they could see something special. TNA have droves of these guys WWE has about 6 (Hardy, RVD, Edge, Shelton, London & Kendrick) thats just off the top of my head. . there are probally more.

[Hammy]

^He can do spots, no doubt but not as well as he used to be able to.

Plus like i said i like a balance between wrestling and spots, not just a spot fest.

Guys like AJ Styles & Edge can wrestle as well as do the spots.

As for HBK, i realise your a hater but he's done his fair share of spots in his time and just remember, Jeff Hardy idolised him and emulated him as a kid, will HBK do some of the crazy things Jeff Hardy does, no but a wrestler who specialises in spot fests only is limited unless every match he has is a Cage, Ladder, TLC match or something, and nobody's body could handle it either.? And like i said, without him it doesn't make the match second rate, like you said, WWE has other performers who can do those spots, Londrick, Shelton etc. Just put those there instead, rest assured there's less of a risk of the spots being blown...

The thing i find with Jeff Hardy is that the majority of his moves look sooo damn fake....he misses the swanton most of the time and even if he did hit it right it wouldnt hurt....and his leg scissor takedown is always shaky at best

He also has a habit of running round the barrier and falling off, he's peaked, fucked his body over and is past his best. ?He is better than he was at the end of his last run and has clearly improved from then, but he's still medicore, he fits well in his midcard position and is happy to take a sick bump, that pretty much sums him up, his only other real prospects are a full blown Hardy Boyz reunion, but for that we'd need a good tag division. ?To be honest he may not be as over but Matt Hardy in my opinion is a BETTER wrestler than Jeff. ?When they first split and he had that V1 Mattitude gimmick on Smackdown he was way over and entertaining to watch.

we perhaps have an early contender for PPV of the year!

I hope so, good to see a card where i want to see every match and they all have a story and a background....

I think this final encounter will be the classic that Angle and Joe have been looking for.

I hope so. ?I was annoyed this feud was rushed, the actually feuding had been good, but as mentioned by others i wanted to see Angle fight with others, i was, to be honest finding him a bit tedious a few weeks back (outside the ring obviously). ?The positive though, and this is a big one, is i love Iron Man Matches, i wish we got them more often. ?Lookin' at WWE, rather than banging a few matches on the card at the last minute to fill up time, give us something like this. ?Or even better give us a TV Iron Man Match. ?When they did it on Smackdown before it was great, do it again. ?Last 2 weeks a part of the show has been filled with a "From The Vault" match, between Booker & Lashley from '06, why? ?What's the point? ?We also have a Diva match but no division or talent, and even better, we get Yang vs Tatanka. ?Surely they could take a week off that crap and give us Finlay vs Chris Benoit US Title 30 Minute Iron Man Match.

The other match I can't wait to see is the X Division Title match. Lynn flat out rules, so this will be a beast of a match. I'm hoping Sabin wins so he and Lynn can have an extended feud over the belt.

Awesome, you know i am a massive mark for Lynn i have been wanting him to get back wrestling on tv for ages, Cradle Piledriver here we come.....

Lastly, pulling for Christian Cage all the way in the NWA Title Match. Christian of Summer 2005 is back!

He is a LOT better now, best he has been since his time in TNA, he definately deserves the belt.

As for Abyss, this bollocks storyline should end soon, i fear they are gonna do a "Kane" with him.....

[Neemo]

do they even allow piledrivers anymore? i thought that after that injury (who was it?) that they dont use it any longer

[Axl4Life]

jeff hardy as good as any? am been punked arnt i? wheres ashton?

Jeff Hardy is an awesome performer as good as any on his day. Yeah he can go from spot to spot but i fucking love those spots. put it this way a ladder / TLC match without Jeff Hardy's name involved is a second rate match IMO

Give me Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels in a Ladder Match and i guarantee you i won't be asking "Where's Jeff Hardy?"

haha i would! personally i think the TLC matches are the best range of matches ever in the 'E' and the common mainstays are Jeff Hardy and Edge!

On his day he produces matches that no one forgets.

HBK in a ladder match . . why so he can do a splash where his knees hit the ground about an hour before him. or an elbow drop from one rung further up than the turnbuckle

I agree hardy is a spot guy . . but so was RVD in ECW and so is AJ Styles in Big Matches. Its entertaining.

Ladder matches are all about those crazy moments and when Jeff Hardy is in a match like that you will look forward to it more than John Cena vs HHH coz they won't take the big bump nor will do anything nuts . . thats my point.

If your talking wrestling talent then year he sucks but he has never been that. he is a daredevil who has the crowd on their feet every time he comes to the ring coz they know at any given time they could see something special. TNA have droves of these guys WWE has about 6 (Hardy, RVD, Edge, Shelton, London & Kendrick) thats just off the top of my head. . there are probally more.

Something tells me you don't really like HBK.....

Oh, and Stoned, I agree with you about Matt Hardy. He could be a true main eventer if he got pushed. He's can do his fair share of high spots aswell as wrestle. And lets face it, he's way over no matter how many times he loses.

[Hammy]

do they even allow piledrivers anymore?

TNA does it is WWE that does not (Aside from 'Taker's Tombstone Piledriver).

Something tells me you don't really like HBK.....

Here's a post from the first page of this thread which will answer your question...

I hate the fact HBK has the title.... he so does not deserve it

 

Oh, and Stoned, I agree with you about Matt Hardy. He could be a true main eventer if he got pushed. He's can do his fair share of high spots aswell as wrestle. And lets face it, he's way over no matter how many times he loses.

Yeah, first things first though.  I am not sure about being a main eventer, but hell they could give him a US Title run, he is deserving of that level....

[Evolution]

Personally I think that too much emphasis is put on the actual psychology of the match. Guys like Sonjay Dutt, Jeff Hardy, AJ Styles and Paul London get some stick from so called "proper" wrestlers about being spot monkeys and failing to construct matches the right way, but I think in wrestling you need guys who take the risks to get the win(speaking in kayfabe here) because in a realistic sport people are going to have different gameplans to win matches. The more spontanieous the group of moves a wrestler pulls off, the more chance he has of a surprise win no? I reckon the bigger guys are just jealous because their 'roided up bodies won't let them do high risk moves. It's obvious fans will cheer a spectacular finisher over a more solid realistic finish. I think it's the future of the business myself. Guys like AJ Styles and Christopher Daniels who have an excellent mat based foundation, but are able to pull off the high risk.

Besides, in a Big Man vs Cruiserweight match, the smaller guy will have to do high flying moves to beat the Big Man. It's pretty much been drummed in by commentators for years. So why can't smaller guys do the same against other smaller guys?

On the Hardy Boyz topic, I would have said that Matt Hardy should have been the breakout star of the team. The way he modified his style in 2002 to fit the United States Title bracket as Stoned said was excellent. Add it to his well done Mattitude gimmick and you had a solid guy. Contrast it to Jeff in 2003. Drug problems, attitude problem and flat out bored of wrestling.

Now in 2006, Matt will never get anywhere more than midcard because of political problems and Jeff is the IC Champion and getting a sustained push. Crazy how much things can change in three years.

P.S Shawn Michaels can still pull out the high spots! For a guy who took four years out because of a back injury to do things like an elbow drop through a table at Wrestlemania 22 and a backdrop through a table, onto the outside, against Shane McMahon at Saturday Night's Main Event in March '06 is incredible in my book.

[Hammy]

I think it's the future of the business myself. Guys like AJ Styles and Christopher Daniels who have an excellent mat based foundation, but are able to pull off the high risk.

I see where you are coming from and i agree with those guys, they have the right balance, there matches and spots are smooth and look good.  My issue is with Jeff Hardy (and with Gnrfan for being a HBK hater ) because his spots these days don't look smooth and spots is all he's got

[slash666]

to me HBK has got the perfect credentials of a champion, his style of wrestling is great and what no one else can do in WWE these days. Also his spots are amazing and never look boring, especially for someone of his age and past with injuries & is so much better with his spots than Jeff Hardy, did you see his dive through the ropes onto Orton at NYR? no way would Jeff do that these days! I'm hoping HBK gets another title chance when he comes back from surgery (whenever that may be) cause face it a guy with moves, style & also being a fan favourite like he is deserves the title especially since he hasn't won a title since 2002!

[sweet616]

if anyone wants to see great tech wrestling and hi risk wrestling i have 2 words and 3 letters...Paul London ROH!!! he has been in some of the greatest matchs, he can pull off amazing spots and is one of very few wrestlers who can actuly wrestle...where as jeff can get a 1000screaming girls or children under 10 going OmGZZZZ tHAt wAs So EXtreeem. Paul London can get anyone i dont care how old you are shouting at the TV PLEASE DONT DIE!!!!


also about the swanton jeff does...its harder then it looks...am tellin ya standing on a top rope is freakey and when its easy to critisize wile sat at home at ground level its harder then it looks

a nealy broke my foot attempting a swanton at training, and as for my attempt at the Spiral Tap...i died lol


anyways PAUL LONDON!!!!!!!! lol

[Gnrfan]

to me HBK has got the perfect credentials of a champion, his style of wrestling is great and what no one else can do in WWE these days. Also his spots are amazing and never look boring, especially for someone of his age and past with injuries & is so much better with his spots than Jeff Hardy, did you see his dive through the ropes onto Orton at NYR? no way would Jeff do that these days! I'm hoping HBK gets another title chance when he comes back from surgery (whenever that may be) cause face it a guy with moves, style & also being a fan favourite like he is deserves the title especially since he hasn't won a title since 2002!

But Jeff hardy also doesn't disapear for four years. no wonder HBK can still jump through ropes.

HBK has a certain style yes i agree. and if you like it great. but he isn't a great wrestler and if he wasn't old school fans would not stand for his style of wrestling these days if he was debuting. he generally gets the shit kicked out of him . . then punches his way back, then does an elbow drop then gives them Sweet Chin Music . . ok now and again he'll do something awesome. But people like Jeff Hardy and RVD would do awesome and risky moves on heat if they were on there. HBK wouldn't.

I agree HBK can be entertaining but i don't look forward to HBK matches coz they are all the same . . . same 4 or 5 moves. Jeff Hardy is a wildcard he has done some insane things . . and makes michaels look like a average risk taker. HBK isn't known as a great wrestler and he isn't a high flyer (aside from thr rocker days) in the sense of jeff hardy, paul london or rey mysterio . . . he has always been the guy with "Heart" who will never give in . . . and its boring now coz every top face is like that.

Jeff Hardy does not have the personality to be as big as HBK but he is more exciting for the average fan. DX was a god send for HBK coz he got to do what he does best, use the mic & interact with the crowd. While doing loads of storyline and usually wrestling in tag or 3 on 3 matches . . and maybe you say he has earned it . . maybe thats true but not for me.

His time has passed and for me when push comes to shove other legends make him look like a simple entertainer rather than excellent wrestler.

That being said he has given alot to the 'E' (and they gave him alot while he found god, i mean back healed ) so they might give him one last run for nostalga

[sweet616]

HBK gets the same pop from doin the elbow drop as jeff does falling of a "20"foot ladder
HBK can actuly make other wrestlers look better
HBK doesnt No show without a reason like "sorry a slept in" sent in a text
HBK admitted his problems and got help
HBK can kick big show in the jaw!
HBK can wrestle!
HBK has good mic skills

Jeff can No Show
Jeff can not admit he had problems be welcomed back with a IC Tital and be loved
Jeff can do the exact same match he did the week before and know one would notice
Jeff cant kick big show in the knee!
Jeff cant talk!!!

HHH can do what ever the hell he wants hes married to the bosses daughter!
HHH can wrestle!
HHH has good mic skills
HHH can do press ups and instead of pushing himself up he pushes the rookies on the roster down

London can wrestle
London can fly
London can do the PERFECT!! Shooting Star Press
London hasnt got the greatest mic skills but is ok
London can go tech with anyone!

Kendrick few words i can use to show how amazing kendrick is....Battle Rap With Cena!

WHEN I SAY CENA YOU SAY SUCKS CENA SUCK CENA SUCKS! i love spanky lol

[Gnrfan]

I think it's the future of the business myself. Guys like AJ Styles and Christopher Daniels who have an excellent mat based foundation, but are able to pull off the high risk.

Now in 2006, Matt will never get anywhere more than midcard because of political problems and Jeff is the IC Champion and getting a sustained push. Crazy how much things can change in three years.

P.S Shawn Michaels can still pull out the high spots! For a guy who took four years out because of a back injury to do things like an elbow drop through a table at Wrestlemania 22 and a backdrop through a table, onto the outside, against Shane McMahon at Saturday Night's Main Event in March '06 is incredible in my book.

Yeah the match with shane was good . . but no more than that. Shane is awesome for wrestlers like HBK coz he basically says lets go and do a cracking match. And lets face it they both aren't great mat wrestlers so that was always gonna be a good match every match with shane is good. But do you remember Shane vs Angle . . 10 times better than the HBK match and thats what i mean. HBK can do two thirds of the business to me (spots and mic skills) but Angle can do all 3 and so can so many wrestlers now. I mean Jeff hardy is someone who can only do spots but his spots are more frequent and bigger and better.

politics is stupid in WWE i know RVD fucked his chance up, but it was only coz he was high coz he was still shocked and high from when vince said 'we're gonna let you beat Cena' . . for so long he was destined for that title but vince said 'no he cant draw' which i always found funny coz at that time RVD was probally the wrestler i would most pay to see.

Guys that have Mat skills, mic skills and are willing to put their bodies on the line are definatly the future. because if you have that you dont need a character. The first time i relised this was when i watched Masamo Tanaka vs Mike Awesome in ECW and these guys were jumping over the ropes (awesome is like 6'8 or something), powerbombing people through tables from the top rope but also engaging in wrestling exchanges.

HBK gets the same pop from doin the elbow drop as jeff does falling of a "20"foot ladder

I dont think so. i've been lucky enough to be at an event in the states when HBK did his elbow and yeah good pop but i've also seen Jeff climb a ladder and even before he has jumped the crowd are louder. Plus what do you talk about on the way home. An elbow drop that could neve match up to randy savages or Jeff swanton from the ladder . . the latter

HBK admitted his problems and got help

yeah for four years . . thats one long recovery of course the money wwe were paying him must of helped his recovery

HBK can kick big show in the jaw!

well goldberg can jackhammer him . . maybe hes the best ever

HBK has good mic skills

no doubt. ive already said that i think.

HBK can wrestle!

Now i'm on punk'd. wheres ashton?

Jeff can No Show
Jeff can not admit he had problems be welcomed back with a IC Tital and be loved

makes him an idiot not a useless wrestler

Jeff can do the exact same match he did the week before and know one would notice

thats because the fans like his product

Jeff cant talk!!!

neither can AJ Styles or Chris Beniot . . . maybe they suck too

London can wrestle
London can fly
London can do the PERFECT!! Shooting Star Press
London hasnt got the greatest mic skills but is ok
London can go tech with anyone!

Kendrick few words i can use to show how amazing kendrick is....Battle Rap With Cena!

WHEN I SAY CENA YOU SAY SUCKS CENA SUCK CENA SUCKS! i love spanky lol

couldnt agree more love london and hate Cena

[Gnrfan]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

shit just wanna say in no way was i trying to be a dick, just my opinions. just read my message back and it seems arsy but it wasn't meant that way