Wrestling...thats right, Wrestling!

[Evolution]

Nowadays it has a blend of high flying "X Division" action and older stars. It resembles WCW 2000 sometimes but it's worth staying for the X Division guys.


Check out Samoa Joe if you can. He has an awesome roughneck style.

[pilferk]

I always wondered if Jim Crockett regretted selling NWA/WCW to Ted Turner. I'm sure his wallet didn't regret it, but the sell was a huge turning point in the quality of wrestling. But Crockett made huge mistakes in his last couple years at NWA/WCW. It was on TBS, and it had good ratings, but it was always a bunch of worthless matches(the stars wrestling nobodys) and the main event would start with about 1 minute left on the show, and you never got to see the whole match. Huge mistake. Also, it got to the point where matches wouldn't even be clean. They started ending in DQ's and countouts. Any old school fans here(Pilferk?) will remember this. Buying their PPVs became a ripoff. I remember one very hyped match between Flair/Koloff ended up only lasting like 10-15 minutes and it was a lame DQ. Obviously, those tactics turned fans off to the organization. Why pay 30-40 bucks to see a bunch of poorly scripted matches? I eventually found out why the matches started being like that, and it was in Arne Anderson's book. Dusty Rhodes was the person writing these scripts, and also Flair got involved in doing it, and it really soured the company.

Ahhh, yes..the "Dusty Finish".? Yes, I remember. Giving Dusty the book was the worst thing Crockett ever did...it basically killed the NWA.

To show you just how old school of a fan I am....I remember the Magnum TA vs Nikita Koloff fued.? I remember the Midnight Express/Road Warrior Scaffold matches. I remember Arn, Ole, Tully, and Flair as the 4 Horseman.? Hell, I remember when Luger could actually WRESTLE (remember his fued with Barry Windham?? Or his 90 min match with Flair?) Damn, those were the days of good wrestling.? ?6:05 to 8:05 every Saturday Night on TBS, I was glued to the TV.

[Mr Cowbell ?]

Verne Gagne got inducted to the WWE Hall of Fame this year, plus his song Greg runs feeder organisation OVW now so Verne won't be the man to do it. I haven't heard what Jim Crockett's up to these days.

Have you ever checked out TNA wrestling James? They are currently nearest competition.

I didn't see that Hall of Fame this year. Wish I did. I remember Greg Gagne. I remember him and Curt Henning getting their asses kicked by The Road Warriors.

I always wondered if Jim Crockett regretted selling NWA/WCW to Ted Turner. I'm sure his wallet didn't regret it, but the sell was a huge turning point in the quality of wrestling. But Crockett made huge mistakes in his last couple years at NWA/WCW. It was on TBS, and it had good ratings, but it was always a bunch of worthless matches(the stars wrestling nobodys) and the main event would start with about 1 minute left on the show, and you never got to see the whole match. Huge mistake. Also, it got to the point where matches wouldn't even be clean. They started ending in DQ's and countouts. Any old school fans here(Pilferk?) will remember this. Buying their PPVs became a ripoff. I remember one very hyped match between Flair/Koloff ended up only lasting like 10-15 minutes and it was a lame DQ. Obviously, those tactics turned fans off to the organization. Why pay 30-40 bucks to see a bunch of poorly scripted matches? I eventually found out why the matches started being like that, and it was in Arne Anderson's book. Dusty Rhodes was the person writing these scripts, and also Flair got involved in doing it, and it really soured the company.

Evo, yeah I saw TNA a couple years ago. I wasn't very impressed. They had some wrestler there that was a ripoff of Booker T's gimmick, and it was a joke. Maybe I'll watch a show and see what its like now.

Yeah NWA in the late 80's was terribly scripted. I was a huge WWF fan back then and would turn into WCW every now and then. ?I remember they used to defend the TV all the time on TBS and it had a 15 minute time limit, and it seemed everyweek that someone would hit their finisher and go for the pin and there would be no time left on the clock.

I think it would be best for WWE and Vince if another organization was to rise up, afteral, it would push Vince to put on the best show possible, and it would create real FREE AGENTS as in the 90's heyday when ?wrestlers contract was up and WCW and WWF would be fighting for them. ?I still remember Flair screwing WCW in 91 bringing their title to WWF and WWF TV would censor the title, then as soon as things were not going FLair's way he left WWF again and went back to WCW.

[Evolution]

I remember hearing about the fuss caused when Madusa threw the WWF Women's Title in a bin on Nitro, but Flair did the same thing kinda! He could have lost the belt before joining the WWF.


Didn't they ask for money when they put the belt on a wrestler, and returned it when he lost it? Flair didn't lose the belt so he figured it was his property or something.

[Bill 213]

I remember hearing about the fuss caused when Madusa threw the WWF Women's Title in a bin on Nitro, but Flair did the same thing kinda! He could have lost the belt before joining the WWF.


Didn't they ask for money when they put the belt on a wrestler, and returned it when he lost it? Flair didn't lose the belt so he figured it was his property or something.

Flair paid $25k at the time he won as a deposit on the belt which was standard.  When he chose to leave NWA, they never paid him anything and they tried to sue him.  Flair won the trial however he wasn't able to show the belt on TV.  They ended up paying him in excess of $100k to get the belt back after interest and such. 

[jameslofton29]

Ahhh, yes..the "Dusty Finish".? Yes, I remember. Giving Dusty the book was the worst thing Crockett ever did...it basically killed the NWA.

To show you just how old school of a fan I am....I remember the Magnum TA vs Nikita Koloff fued.? I remember the Midnight Express/Road Warrior Scaffold matches. I remember Arn, Ole, Tully, and Flair as the 4 Horseman.? Hell, I remember when Luger could actually WRESTLE (remember his fued with Barry Windham?? Or his 90 min match with Flair?) Damn, those were the days of good wrestling.? ?6:05 to 8:05 every Saturday Night on TBS, I was glued to the TV.

Damn, you really are old school. I remember all those matches you mention. Classic stuff, and nothing will ever ever come close to that. That Windham-Luger feud was great, although it didn't last long. Remember that Steamboat-Flair match where Flair regained the title? I know the Steamboat-Savage Wrestlemania III match is considered by fans and historians as the greatest wrestling match of all time, but that one comes very close. Flair didn't even cheat to win. It was just pure wrestling. I think a reason the match isn't held in high regard is because of how it was cheapened by having Terry Funk piledrive Flair on the table long after the match was over.

 Remember The Wargames: The Match Beyond? This is something that Vince should do in WWE. Provide some sort of a spark. If the wrestling has to be shitty, at least allow that wrestling to happen in a way that alot of these guys have never seen before. How about that match called The Tower of Doom? Interesting concept, but was only used once. Must have been too dangerous.

Yeah NWA in the late 80's was terribly scripted. I was a huge WWF fan back then and would turn into WCW every now and then. ?I remember they used to defend the TV all the time on TBS and it had a 15 minute time limit, and it seemed everyweek that someone would hit their finisher and go for the pin and there would be no time left on the clock.

I remember that. Fucking lame. I stopped caring about that TV Title. Same thing happened every week. Hell, Arne Anderson was the TV Champ for what felt like an eternity.

Didn't they ask for money when they put the belt on a wrestler, and returned it when he lost it? Flair didn't lose the belt so he figured it was his property or something.

I'm sure a deposit was required. Hell, Flair's World Title in 1985 was supposedly 10 pounds of gold.

[jameslofton29]

I remember the Magnum TA vs Nikita Koloff fued.

I forgot to comment on this in my previous post. Wasn't his car crash one of the most tragic things that ever happened in wrestling? He didn't die, but it was a major blow to the NWA, and all of wrestling. He was going to be a HUGE star. He was an excellent wrestler, good on the mike, and had widespread appeal. Hell, some of my aunts watched NWA just to look at him. He was on the verge of greatness. I am sure he would have had the NWA World Title in no time. Had he eventually went to WWF, Vince would have propped him up as champ in a second, and would not have given Hogan another second's thought.

[pilferk]

Damn, you really are old school. I remember all those matches you mention. Classic stuff, and nothing will ever ever come close to that. That Windham-Luger feud was great, although it didn't last long. Remember that Steamboat-Flair match where Flair regained the title? I know the Steamboat-Savage Wrestlemania III match is considered by fans and historians as the greatest wrestling match of all time, but that one comes very close. Flair didn't even cheat to win. It was just pure wrestling. I think a reason the match isn't held in high regard is because of how it was cheapened by having Terry Funk piledrive Flair on the table long after the match was over.

 Remember The Wargames: The Match Beyond? This is something that Vince should do in WWE. Provide some sort of a spark. If the wrestling has to be shitty, at least allow that wrestling to happen in a way that alot of these guys have never seen before. How about that match called The Tower of Doom? Interesting concept, but was only used once. Must have been too dangerous

 forgot to comment on this in my previous post. Wasn't his car crash one of the most tragic things that ever happened in wrestling? He didn't die, but it was a major blow to the NWA, and all of wrestling. He was going to be a HUGE star. He was an excellent wrestler, good on the mike, and had widespread appeal. Hell, some of my aunts watched NWA just to look at him. He was on the verge of greatness. I am sure he would have had the NWA World Title in no time. Had he eventually went to WWF, Vince would have propped him up as champ in a second, and would not have given Hogan another second's thought.

I do remember the Steamboat-Flair matches, and particularly the one you're talking about.? From my money, that's the SECOND greatest match in wrestling history.? I agree with pretty much everyone else that the Steamboat-Savage match is the best of all time.? And I actually LIKE the Funk piledriver.

The wargames were good, but I think the WWE would just kill them.?You have to work hard in those matches and generally have to wrestle your ass off....something the current WWE roster isn't overly great at.   They had their own "version" for awhile (less the cages) in the Survivor Series stuff, but it never was as captivating as the War Games.? The Tower of Doom was only used once, but they ended up bringing back, if I remember correctly, a variation of it late in WCW's life.? It's how Arquette ended up winning the world title, remember (cue groans).
 
I agree on what happened to Magnum TA.? He was destined to be the flagship of that company and he wasn't trully "replaced" until Sting showed up on the scene.? They tried with Nikita (who really got a huge babyface push after Magnum was hurt), but he was never as "big" as they wanted him to be.? That accident was a huge blow for the NWA.

 It was a real tragedy how badly he was hurt.....poor guy was never the same.? I know he's at least able to walk, now, without crutches or a cane.? He still does the occasional odd appearance at an indie show.? But his career was pretty much over that night.? Sad, very, very sad.

[Hammy]

Loften, Cowbell, Pilferk, talking about the NWA in the 80s, it's like the wrestling thread had an injection of the OSWO (Old School World Order...) ?

Just remember Loften I am bad and they know I'm bad! And there were two bad people; one was John Wayne and he's dead brother and the other one's right here! ?

Back on the ECW subject.....

Internally, WWE is crediting the 2.8 ECW rating to a mixture of curiosity over the new brand and the WWE Raw characters appearing on the show. That's interesting since the opening segment, featuring Edge and John Cena featured the lowest rated quarter hour for the entire ECW hour, capturing a 2.6 from 10:00-10:15 PM. ECW rose to a 2.7 rating from 10:15-10:30 PM, featuring Sandman vs. Zombie, Tazz vs. Jerry Lawler, and Kelly's first backstage promo. ECW hit their hour high mark of 2.9 from 10:30-10:45 PM with Kelly's striptease, Kurt Angle vs. Justin Credible, and the Extreme Battle Royal entrances. The Battle Royal itself dipped down to a 2.7 from 10:45-11:00 PM. ECW's two minute overrun, which saw Sabu eliminate Big Show to win, scored a 3.2 rating.

While I guess the internal reasoning will be that Angle and Show are "WWE" guys, it's interesting (at least to me) that the top babyface and heel on Raw (outside of Triple H) did the lowest quarter hour of the entire debut. I am very curious to see how the rating rises or falls over the next month, because if we see an XFL-like decline, that's a deadly serious sign that fans tuned in hoping to see a "pure" ECW product and were turned off by what they found. Of course, WWE could easily turn around and say that the rating Tuesday night did much better than anything ECW ever did on it's own and credit themselves for that, but by the same token, the Rise and Fall of ECW DVD didn't sell 100,000 plus copies simply because WWE produced it. It sold because ECW fans want their ECW. So, I am extremely curious to see how the ratings fare in the coming weeks.

Since I've gotten this question a number of times over the last several days, Tommy Dreamer doesn't have any creative control in the revived ECW. Although Dreamer was heavily involved in putting together the successful original One Night Stand PPV, he quietly lost power in this year's ECW PPV and the revived ECW as they became larger scale projects within the McMahon family eyes. Currently, Paul Heyman is writing the show with assistance from Dave Lagana, but the show is being written with an eye for what Vince McMahon wants. Creatively, Dreamer is out of the loop and was said to have been very angry with the overall product of the first ECW episode backstage after it was taped. Now why WWE wouldn't want the one person who cared as much as anyone about the original ECW (and in fact was the last one to leave, even after Heyman went to WWE) to have an influential part of building the new company is beyond me, but that's the way things work there. It's just another example of why everyone needs to remember this is Vince McMahon's vision of what he wants ECW to be, not a recreation of what it used to be.

There was something of a culture shock for some the ECW alumni at the first episode of the new series this week in New Jersey. It was a whole new world for those used to the old "point the camera and shoot" gritty production that Ron Buffone and Charlie Bruzzese perfected for the old ECW. Instead, WWE had tons of production people involved, multiple rehearsals of segments, pre-tapes, etc. Several people I spoke to commented that it was a whole different universe and even backstage, you could feel that things were being micromanaged and overproduced.

http://www.pwinsider.com/ViewArticle.asp?id=18616&p=1



Oh and here's a classic quote for ya.....

"Dusty Rhodes wouldn't win a body building contest for best abs, MacMahon, he'd win for MOST abs."-- Jesse Ventura

[Evolution]

Vito has been wearing dresses anytime he is in the public eye while traveling for WWE, in order for him to maintain his character. Vito hasn?t made a fuss about it in the slightest, he is acting like he is fine with the idea and enjoying himself.


I bet all the boys wanna travel with Vito!

[Hammy]

From The Observer

According to reliable sources backstage, Smackdown's Paul Burchill has been trying to put forward a new gimmick for himself which involves him playing an English 'football hooligan' who attacks people with broken bottles and switchblades.

Due to this, it has been suggested that WWE officials, including John Laurinaitis and Dean Malenko are keeping a close eye on the soccer World Cup which is currently taking place in Europe to gauge the American public's interest in the event.

Several current superstars, including Finlay and Super Crazy are advising management on the rules and culture of the sport as they are understood to be 'clueless'.

His catchphrase could be 'Stitch that Jimmy'

[Jim]

I didn't catch all of Smackdown last night, but from what I did see of JBL was fantastic! It was strange hearing his real voice, as opposed to his wrestling god voice, for the first time in years when he was trying to be somewhat serious in what he was saying though.

He really pushed the heels as wrestlers, unlike the Jerry Lawler re-hash and be on the side of the heel for no decent reason..... And his reference to Helms' Hurricane gimmick being shitty was great! Hopefully he's going to continue with the old references, previous champion and gimmick and you what not.

Definitely a  from what I saw.

[Evolution]

I agree, he did a good job. Burchill is a genius! That's a damn fine gimmick 

[Evolution]

Hey Anselmo! How about a cool new title for our thread? 

[Evolution]

Haha nice!

[Hammy]

The title implies we wrestle each other........

[Evolution]

How much "It's all about the Wrestling Thread, and how you post it!" ala HHH's music?


Or "Bow Down to the, Bow Down to the Wrestling Thread."

[R4tfink]

The title implies we wrestle each other........

Next time we meet son, next time...you will get the crossplex driver! Oh dear...fear the pain!

How much "It's all about the Wrestling Thread, and how you post it!" ala HHH's music?


Or "Bow Down to the, Bow Down to the Wrestling Thread."

Hmmm...carry on with the suggestions... i do agree with Stoned a little bit....suprisingly.

[Evolution]

I got 2 words for ya! Wrestling Thread!

[R4tfink]

I got 2 words for ya! Wrestling Thread!

Thats weird...i was thinking that, not two minutes ago! Get out my head Evo! Or am i in yours...