Wrestling...thats right, Wrestling!

[Hammy]

I don't know whether I've been a smark or a mark or whatever for too long I get lost by what these terms mean, all I know is I like many heels so maybe they aren't doing their job, but I find Edge, Jericho and heel HBK extremely entertaining.  Heck I guess in my eyes the only heel doing his job then is Vladimir Kozlov, the ring attire, the music, the skills, the promos, everything he sucks, hate is a strong word but I have quite the dislike for him, his only entertaining stint in my eyes was his "I love Double, Double, E" stuff.

It is the old principal, you have to hate a heel so much you want to pay to see him lose, people like us/me don't count because we watch the shows no matter what.

That's often why they say the heels have the titles longer than faces, or they should because the regular fans pay for each ppv hoping the face will finally triumph.

Fans in the UK seem to me a lot smarker!    I noticed at my live event Orton was really popular and at shows in MSG the fans are also often like that.  Remember when Christian was getting cheered over Batista back in...2005 was it here in the UK?

Some things I think we all agree on is Tag Wrestling is far superior in TNA, its a shame, like D said WWE seem to focus on the top and forget the rest and that can be annoying, during every ERA of WWF/E my attention has always been the midcard IC/Tag level.  Seriously I forever recommend this but 87-88 Survivor Series checking out the tag team Survivor battles, I forget which year it was but one went 40 minutes and all the people who were involved it was great the division was huge, my favourite wrestlers were in there Rockers, Demolition, Powers of Pain, Hart Foundation, British Bulldogs etc.

Even watching WCW the main events stink, Giant vs Luger?  Whereas Malenko and Mysterio steal the show.

I see Gnrfan's points we have 2 great midcard champions in Mysterio and MVP.  But what have they done?

Mysterio beat JBL in a minute and has he defended since?

MVP beat Shelton Benjamin and retained in a rematch since and now he is having a mini feud with Dolph Ziggler.  They announce a match for tv next week and fill Backlash with Khali Kiss Cam instead?  Bah!

I want titles to mean stuff.  I'm annoyed at the addition of Superstars, I like to keep up with WWE TV, 4 fucking shows a week!

Cut back on the shows, end the brand split, have 5 titles:

WWE
IC
TAG
Cruiser
Womens

Heck you don't even need to release that many people, putting people together as tag teams with THOUGHT behind them, a gimmick and a name can work with 2 guys who can't get over on their own.

Prime example, Mike Knox and Charlie Haas are teaming on house shows.  Neither will be over, ever, as singles stars.  As a team they could though, Haas has had beard growth in the past, him and Knox, the bearded wonders managed by Jim Mitchell, I'm sold!

[Axl4Life]

No capitals, no punctuation, lack of coherant point

Actually, thats coherent. 

[D]

Lets compare Raw vs impact for a moment

Storylines U got:

Priceless vs hhh/batista/mcmahon

the comedy of santino


Give me ONE more storyline happening on Raw

U had Jericho vs the Legends but he is gone to SD now

there aren't any others I am aware of.


Impact u have:

MEM vs Frontline
Mick Foley vs Jeff Jarrett
Tag team Tourney
Beautiful People vs everybody in the Diva
X Division although it needs to be picked back up
Hell even the Abyss and Doctor Stevie is SOMETHING even though it isn't the greatest thing in the world, its at least SOMETHING

overall though its 2 hours that entertain me

Raw, I want to fast forward BS vs Mysterio cause its a  pointless match just like most matches on there

[AtariLegend]

This list was made in 2003 so I'm not sure how much opinions would have changed since then.

Edge would be alot higher. 

[Hammy]

Does the Frontline still exist, I mean they seem so divided.  Joe has his Nation of Violence, Team 3D and Lethal Consequences seem content in the tag division, where is Rhino?  Jarrett and Foley fighting each other.  Only Styles and Daniels seem to represent it now and even Styles this week referred to themselves as "Originals" and weren't MCMG in it?  I mean the MEM is still entertaining and going strong but there is no big opposition stables, the idea of killing them off and us vs them seems to of faded, its entertaining nonetheless but Frontline as an actual group seems dead in the water.  Not that its a bad thing, they always came across as inferior.

And your list is fairly good but putting "X-Division" but it needs to be picked up, you'd be better not listing it  

And in WWE's defence, considering the brand split doesn't come into affect until tomorrow, many of the new additions haven't even appeared on the show yet, they've been busy tying up loose ends, i.e. the Women/Diva title defences.  Give it a week or so and you'll have a brand new Women's feud on RAW and new stars appearing stuff will be happening, Miz could feud with MVP, Colons with Priceless.  Since Miz and Colons haven't showed up since the brand split they haven't really had a chance to get feuds going have they?

Oh and BlowUpYourVideo, I don't see Repo Man so yeah, I want the 100 

[Gnrfan]

No capitals, no punctuation, lack of coherant point

Actually, thats coherent. 

 

Many people like heels, much like people like Sylar in Heroes or Dexter. And heels can be entertaining, damn Jericho & Edge entertain me more than most. But if they are getting cheered on a regular basis then something is wrong! In the end you want some sort of good to shine through.

My point is that people like Flair developed a style of wrestling that was purposely boring to make fans hate him more. Guys like Orton has continued that. Its not for every heel but its effective. And why some people think Orton is boring i would argue that he's not and its a style he uses. Just like Izzy saying that Austin can't wrestle, when in fact he could be he used his style to help his charetcer. its the same thing.

[Gnrfan]

On another note... and i'm one of the worst for this... we shouldn't start throwing insults around in this thread or goad people with comments. Its good that we have different views and people that like wrestling and see things differently. Life would be boring if we did.

[BlowUpYourVideo]

Oh and BlowUpYourVideo, I don't see Repo Man so yeah, I want the 100 

Sorry, he didn't even get an honourable mention.

[slash666]

I highly agree with Hammy. Don't get me wrong TNA puts on some good matches i.e pretty much everywhere but main event, the main events have too much going on in them the majority of the time meaning usually more than just a standard 1 on 1 which is what puts me off sometimes and they try to fit more things into a 2 hour program than WWE do with RAW & Smackdown combined which makes everything rushed and lowers the level of the product and you just forget what just happened cause they go right onto the next thing. It's like what WWE is doing at Backlash (Legacy vs Team HHH) that sort of main event is straight out of TNA. X-Division used to be fantastic but its gone downhill FAST, they REALLY need to devote more effort to it.

No capitals, no punctuation, lack of coherant point

Actually, thats coherent. 

 

Many people like heels, much like people like Sylar in Heroes or Dexter. And heels can be entertaining, damn Jericho & Edge entertain me more than most. But if they are getting cheered on a regular basis then something is wrong! In the end you want some sort of good to shine through.

My point is that people like Flair developed a style of wrestling that was purposely boring to make fans hate him more. Guys like Orton has continued that. Its not for every heel but its effective. And why some people think Orton is boring i would argue that he's not and its a style he uses. Just like Izzy saying that Austin can't wrestle, when in fact he could be he used his style to help his charetcer. its the same thing.

Exactly what I was trying to say to Izzy but alot better put. Sorry for going off at you Izzy.

[Hammy]

Why do people think Orton is winning anyway?

Admittedly the format appears to be there to "Protect" Triple H.

But Orton got the big go home (Smackdown doesn't count).

And they have used the tag partners who don't get along thing for years in these situations, how can they work together?  Shane and Batista keep taking each other out....Oooooo.  Whereas Legacy work together in perfect harmony.

Simple plan could be Batista gets the pin, but not on Orton, Orton claims he wasn't beaten, Batista claims he deserves a shot for helping Triple H retain his title, next month, Triple Threat, with so many Main Eventers on RAW they need to put a few guys in the same match like.

[BlowUpYourVideo]

^Or: Orton pins Batista. HHH pissed off at Dave. Dave pissed off at Orton. Dave want smash. Triple Threat at JD.

[Izzy]

Does the Frontline still exist, I mean they seem so divided.  Joe has his Nation of Violence, Team 3D and Lethal Consequences seem content in the tag division, where is Rhino?  Jarrett and Foley fighting each other.  Only Styles and Daniels seem to represent it now and even Styles this week referred to themselves as "Originals" and weren't MCMG in it?  I mean the MEM is still entertaining and going strong but there is no big opposition stables, the idea of killing them off and us vs them seems to of faded, its entertaining nonetheless but Frontline as an actual group seems dead in the water.  Not that its a bad thing, they always came across as inferior.

Indeed

TNA has misjudged the angle - hell, they have the entertainment factor right but they arent doing whats best for the company in the long term

Its just so darn entertaining seeing the MEM up to no good you forget what damage its doing. I do love Nash, Steiner, Angle, Sting and Booker so that I love them winning - in my eyes, they are the faces....

The MEM have the best promos, the most intresting personalities, they have the matching attire, damnit - they have the cool factor.

..the consequence of this angle has been to make a load of supposedly washed up stars into the most exciting and dynamic team since DX or NWO (in their prime)

The MEM are THE thing in wrestling at the moment - but thats supposed to be the Frontlines destiny!

Solution - reform the Frontline, you can work it into the storyline that they fell apart because they lacked a leader

Have Jeff turn to the young guys to save himself - get the matching attire, the ring entrance and get AJ and Joe kicking ass

...you dont have to have AJ and Joe winning all the time - the MEM can screw them over, it would make them look desperate, they would be true heels trying to keep the better wrestlers down

I'd have Jeff lead the Frontline with Mick Foley as a full blown heel supporting the MEM in exchange for protection of his title

Both sides need a direction - they both want to be in  charge, that has been allowed to drop.

Without it, a large faction doesnt really make any sense. They need to maintain the classic NWO takeover angle - which team will triumph and rule TNA, settle it with one of those always absurd - ''all my shares are on the line'' match

[Bodhi]

If Orton doesnt leave with the WWE title tonight, i think im done with wrestling for awhile...They already dropped the ball at Wrestlemania...they better not blow this...

[Izzy]

If Orton doesnt leave with the WWE title tonight, i think im done with wrestling for awhile...They already dropped the ball at Wrestlemania...they better not blow this...

I wouldnt worry

The question is - where are they going with this?

Orton cuts promos saying he's the best thing ever for weeks on end....and? Then what?

For me - I'd have Orton start building a larger faction, working his way through the locker room building his ''legacy''. We could have all the interest of hiring and firing (Cody Rhodes has NO future in this business with that stupid voice, its harsh - but you know, deep down, its true.) This would give plenty of young guys the chance to be shown as 'the next big thing(s)'

We'd end up with a significant sized ''legacy'' that would be strong enough to get ''their'' GM in place, a person that would ''understand'' real talent

Of course they would just be the usual evil GM...

...the stage is set for Triple H and HBK to reform DX (hell, they've already announced they are reforming later this year) to battle away

The new DX could get the young guys that really deserve the chance (Evan Bourne, Burchill, Benjamin, Morrison etc) right to the top

Simple, thats 12 months of programming (and Survivor Series) sorted - but the beauty of it, your using the young guys in a credible way

[Hammy]

Who else qualifies for Legacy on the active and inactive/development roster ?

Active
Vince
Shane
Steph
Jesse
Carlito
Primo
Goldust
Chavo Guerrero Jnr.
Rey Mysterio Jnr.
Natalya
Umaga (Repackaging would be needed though)
Hornswoggle (kayfabe)

In Rey and Umaga's cases its their uncles that are the famous wrestlers.

Inactive
Sim Snuka (Rejected)
DH Smith
Windham Rotunda
Dakota Darsow
Brett DiBiase
Joe Hennig
Taylor Rotunda

Personally I say choose Dakota Darsow, greatness is in his blood 

[Bodhi]

I want to see Shane do a heel turn...it would be fucking brilliant..or Steph...but Shane could cost Triple H the belt tonight...its perfect

[Evolution]

The problem with the Legacy stable from what I can see is, that the two guys who are supposed to be getting the rub by hanging around with Orton haven't been able to cut their own characters first and, more so in DiBiase's case, haven't been on TV long enough before joining for the audience to care about them.

You could also argue that Orton himself hasn't quite gotten that moment that tips him over the edge and makes him the biggest name in wrestling. Triple H had it, which was what made his rub to Orton and Batista work. Then you consider that Batista had his "Animal" thing going and Orton was already developing into a character with a sense of entitlement.

Perhaps Orton will get that soon, then the DiBiase/Rhodes single pushes towards the US Championship will start.

[Hammy]

Bashams for JBL were painted as jobber/lackeys and never got the true rub from being with him, same goes for Ryder and Hawkins with Edge.  Shame they have done the same so far with Priceless considering they have so much potential.  I quite like Cody Rhodes to, I didn't at first but I think he has potential.

[Evolution]

Hawkins and Ryder have been the prime example of how to do it wrong. They gained exactly nothing from being associated with Edge.

It's like when they brought in Matt Morgan and Nathan Jones to be part of Brock Lesnar's late 2003 Show/Heyman alliance. We all know how that panned out.

[AtariLegend]

I want to see Shane do a heel turn...it would be fucking brilliant

Yeah, more matches featuring Shane.