Wrestling...thats right, Wrestling!

[D]

The angle is getting much better thanks to HBK's amazing acting and selling ability.

JBL actually is a wall street millionaire. He is on Foxnews channel ALOT and actually wrote a book on business.

[Hammy]

he has no finisher

It's called the Clothesline From Hell, you might not like it because it's not a X-Division-esque high-flying move but it IS his finisher.

And so what if you remember him as a drunken bodyguard, wrestling has always been about re-inventing and changing gimmicks/characters, as D says his current gimmick is pretty much who he is, and in wrestling guys playing themselves (with the volume turned up) generally do best at getting that character over.

A "rubbish" heel is one who people just don't care about, to the extent they cannot get a reaction off the crowd, no heat, no nothing, example Rob Conway hence the popular IWC phrase "Conway Pop".

Other heels not doing their job are ones getting cheered, fans might care but if they are getting cheered there is a good chance their opponent, the babyface is getting heat, one guy who is going that way at the moment is Randy Orton, that's more to do with the fact he's been against heels (like this week) and in certain, and many areas, Batista (i.e. in the UK) and John Cena (i.e. a lot of places  ) where guys just hate their guts.  All this harks back to Attitude Era stuff.  Babyfaces in 1995-1996 Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels got heat cos fans were suck of their nice goody goody babyface routine and started cheering "Cool" heels like Psycho Sid and Steve Austin.

[Evolution]

he has no finisher

It's called the Clothesline From Hell, you might not like it because it's not a X-Division-esque high-flying move but it IS his finisher.

C'mon Izzy! That's something a guy from the Attitude era like you should know. When I think of his days as Bradshaw I think of the clothesline.

[Izzy]

he has no finisher

It's called the Clothesline From Hell, you might not like it because it's not a X-Division-esque high-flying move but it IS his finisher.

Nope, i'm not going to dignify it by calling it a finisher, the guy isnt a wrestler - hell, he's not even in shape

I've learnt not to expect much from wrestling but at a MINIMUM i expect the guys and girls involved to be in shape

If I wanted to watch fat people ''punch'' each other there are plenty of pubs around here I could stand outside and watch!

...or I could just watch 1980's WWF.....gym, what gym?

And I know he's got money in ''real life'' - but he's 2-D at best on the mike and keeps down the talented guys who could easily replace him

[Evolution]

but he's 2-D at best on the mike

Seriously? The man is one of the best big time promo guys WWE have.

[GNR_Green]

but he's 2-D at best on the mike

Seriously? The man is one of the best big time promo guys WWE have.

Bloody hell Izzy, leave it alone 

[Izzy]

U lot like JBL?

I'm quite shocked by that

I always just assumed people disliked him

[Bodhi]

he has no finisher

It's called the Clothesline From Hell, you might not like it because it's not a X-Division-esque high-flying move but it IS his finisher.

Nope, i'm not going to dignify it by calling it a finisher, the guy isnt a wrestler - hell, he's not even in shape

I've learnt not to expect much from wrestling but at a MINIMUM i expect the guys and girls involved to be in shape

If I wanted to watch fat people ''punch'' each other there are plenty of pubs around here I could stand outside and watch!

...or I could just watch 1980's WWF.....gym, what gym?

ok Im not a huge JBL fan, but he is great at what he does, he is not supposed to be liked...He also has a ridiculous amount of back problems prohibiting him from hitting the gym as hard as he says he wants to...

Not sure about that gym crack on 1980's WWF, I understand alot of those guys were not in great shape, but some of them blew away current guys, Hogan, Brutus Beefcake, Hercules and Ultimate Warrior were ALL jacked, Ravishing Rick Rude  has the best body in the history of professional wrestling, Rick Martel, Jimmy Snuka all in incredible shape...as a matter of fact guys are a lot smaller today then back then..Edge?? Jeff Hardy?? Those guys would have been laughed out of the arena back in the 80's...Wrestling is not about the body as much anymore...it is about mic skills and how you can carry a story...there are very few guys that can still carry a story like they did back in the 80's...That Randy Savage/Flair fued was incredible, same thing with Savage/Jake Roberts...but it is not the talents fault...WWE has watered down their product with a ridiculous amount of pay-per views, and the stupid bullshit where they have guys who are going to be in a main event compete is some sort of mixed tag match the Raw right before the pay-per view...its so stupid...part of what made that Savage/Flair fued great was that Savage really didnt get his hands on Flair until Wrestlemania, there was a proper build up, today they would have had Savage and Flair in some mixed tag match right before Wrestlemania and Savage would have tapped out to Flair with the figure four....

[Sober_times]

U lot like JBL?

I'm quite shocked by that

I always just assumed people disliked him

He's not the greatest heel ever by any means. But he cuts some decent promos and does his job well enough.

I'm not a huge fan of the guy because sometimes his promos are to good to be true but he also has cut some really crappy promos as well...really really bad. So, hes a'right. 

[GNR_Green]

he has no finisher

It's called the Clothesline From Hell, you might not like it because it's not a X-Division-esque high-flying move but it IS his finisher.

Nope, i'm not going to dignify it by calling it a finisher, the guy isnt a wrestler - hell, he's not even in shape

I've learnt not to expect much from wrestling but at a MINIMUM i expect the guys and girls involved to be in shape

If I wanted to watch fat people ''punch'' each other there are plenty of pubs around here I could stand outside and watch!

...or I could just watch 1980's WWF.....gym, what gym?

ok Im not a huge JBL fan, but he is great at what he does, he is not supposed to be liked...He also has a ridiculous amount of back problems prohibiting him from hitting the gym as hard as he says he wants to...

Not sure about that gym crack on 1980's WWF, I understand alot of those guys were not in great shape, but some of them blew away current guys, Hogan, Brutus Beefcake, Hercules and Ultimate Warrior were ALL jacked, Ravishing Rick Rude  has the best body in the history of professional wrestling, Rick Martel, Jimmy Snuka all in incredible shape...as a matter of fact guys are a lot smaller today then back then..Edge?? Jeff Hardy?? Those guys would have been laughed out of the arena back in the 80's...Wrestling is not about the body as much anymore...it is about mic skills and how you can carry a story...there are very few guys that can still carry a story like they did back in the 80's...That Randy Savage/Flair fued was incredible, same thing with Savage/Jake Roberts...but it is not the talents fault...WWE has watered down their product with a ridiculous amount of pay-per views, and the stupid bullshit where they have guys who are going to be in a main event compete is some sort of mixed tag match the Raw right before the pay-per view...its so stupid...part of what made that Savage/Flair fued great was that Savage really didnt get his hands on Flair until Wrestlemania, there was a proper build up, today they would have had Savage and Flair in some mixed tag match right before Wrestlemania and Savage would have tapped out to Flair with the figure four....

I might pick up the superstars of the 80's dvd at some point.  It seems like they used to let the wrestlers come up with their own stuff whereas now it's clearly all written for them.  So much of it is turgid with bad wrestlers and even worse gimmicks.  I can't watch RAW or Smackers anymore, I only really enjoy Mania and some other ppv's.  When there were really good people like Stone Cold and they appeared on both shows it was action packed and unpredictable most of the time.  Now it's so slow and crap.

As for the 'shape' of wrestlers... do you really want them all to be unnatural steroid freaks?  I think WWE messed up the belts.  If you have a Heavyweight Champion belt keep it for heavy weights.  Keep the WWE belt with smaller wrestlers.  But then that makes them both redundant as it doesn't leave an overall champion - here's an idea WWE - have LESS BELTS!

I agree about the tag matches.  Those 6-man tag matches happen way too often.  It was fun the first couple of times but just because people liked it then doesn't mean you should keep putting it on automatically.  It's so lazy.

[Izzy]

Being in shape doesnt mean being jacked

Plenty of people manage to get in shape using nothing but hard work - including many WWE wrestlers

[D]

JBL does little very disgusting with his shirt off. That's what happens when u quit the juice and stop hitting the weights.

[Izzy]

Is it just me or does the WWE logo need an update?

After all its just the attitude logo with the 'F' hastily removed

Trouble is the old logo stood for something - its jagged letters reflected the adult nature of the show

WWE isnt WWF, its found its own way and I dont think the logo reflects the product anymore - it clashes with the polished WWE

[Evolution]

I remember reading on a newz site that a new logo would debut at Wrestlemania 20.

They could have a WWE Universe theme for the new one or something if they wanted. That or WWE written in crayon by a kid.

[Izzy]

That or WWE written in crayon by a kid.

Sad but true

At first I liked the current WWE stage set up - but now when I look at it I just see the bloated, staged managed monster that is WWE

..its all so technically....perfect , maybe decadent is the word I'm after

And while I'm thinking about it

..what happened to the cliffhangers? Each show used to end in a way that meritted some attention, now shows just.....end

[Mr Cowbell ?]

That or WWE written in crayon by a kid.

Sad but true

At first I liked the current WWE stage set up - but now when I look at it I just see the bloated, staged managed monster that is WWE

..its all so technically....perfect , maybe decadent is the word I'm after

And while I'm thinking about it

..what happened to the cliffhangers? Each show used to end in a way that meritted some attention, now shows just.....end

Hell yeah I remember back in the day both WCW Nitro and WWF Raw both ended fading to black with what seemed to be someone left beaten in the ring or walking away, It seemed to cut away from the action, fading out with you wanting more, now everything is managed so Perfectly it ends like a TV sitcom.

[D]

Good call guys.

Nitro took it too far though as they'd have these amazing main events that would turn into brawls and no contests before they ever got into the ring.



I remember being on the edge of my seat counting down the days to the next Raw just to find out what was gonna happen.

[pilferk]

Good call guys.

Nitro took it too far though as they'd have these amazing main events that would turn into brawls and no contests before they ever got into the ring.



I remember being on the edge of my seat counting down the days to the next Raw just to find out what was gonna happen.

Ah, yes....WCW's obsession with "The Dusty Finish", the beatdown, the run in, and the Pearl Harbor jobs.

Early in the NWO days, it was effective...but too much of it, with NO payoff, was just too much to take.  It was rarely a  good "cliffhanger"...more a  complete heat killer.

[Evolution]

Raven once stated in a shoot video that one of his favourite booking techniques was making fans believe they were getting something, when in fact they weren't. His example was from an old regional show he was watching in the 1980's. The promotion set up a TV main event via an in-ring interview, and during the face's entrance later on, several heels did a beat down on him with a quick blading job. Then, once the bell rang, the heel champion obviously had the upperhand, followed by a comeback which was cut off fairly sharpish. Then just as the TV time for the show is almost done, the heel climbs up to the turnbuckle and once he leaps off, the screen goes to black.

Thing is, these schmozz finishes on TV make people pay for the PPV.

[pilferk]

Raven once stated in a shoot video that one of his favourite booking techniques was making fans believe they were getting something, when in fact they weren't. His example was from an old regional show he was watching in the 1980's. The promotion set up a TV main event via an in-ring interview, and during the face's entrance later on, several heels did a beat down on him with a quick blading job. Then, once the bell rang, the heel champion obviously had the upperhand, followed by a comeback which was cut off fairly sharpish. Then just as the TV time for the show is almost done, the heel climbs up to the turnbuckle and once he leaps off, the screen goes to black.

Thing is, these schmozz finishes on TV make people pay for the PPV.

See, I would label what YOU described a cliffhanger.  There's no finish, BUT there's at least some suspense.

What WCW did wasn't usually "cliff hanger" in nature.  It was a very CLEAR outcome....just not a very satisfying one as a fan.  No "real" finish at all (either a DQ or worse, no announced decision at all) AND no suspense.