Wrestling...thats right, Wrestling!

[Gnrfan]

My point which u so rudely insulted me without using your brain and thinking was, Since Cena has been on top, has the company gotten better or worse?

When Cena was champ. Rating were good. Its only been since he hasn't that RAW has dropped. And i know for certain that after Summerslam and Cena's injury the RAW rating dropped and hasn't been the same since.

You know what... i can't be arsed.

The biggest money earner in the industry at present. a guy that Vince, HHH & Mick Foley have said is the biggest thing going, a guy that has headlined wrestlemania 3 years in a row and a guy that has made HHH & HBK tap at Mania and divided fans like no one else. .......

........ But he can't draw!

[sweet616]

"when ratings sink get a celeb....or someone from jackass"

a miss the times when they would bring a celeb in just to bring in new people and to push the ratings even higher....not just bring the old ones back

[D]

Cena draws but he isnt a big superstar draw

He isn't someone that significantly has a HUGE impact on the industry.

Hulk Hogan changed the industry twice
Stone Cold and The Rock changed the industry, HHH helped sustain that


Bret Hart, Shawn Micheals and John Cena are draws but hey aren't HUGE draws.


To get an idea of how shitty Cena is, consider he is the same position The Rock and Stone Cold were

Surely u can see the HUGE gap.

[slash666]

these arguments are really pointless, of course ratings aren't as strong but thats down to the factor that wrestling is not as popular as it once was, that affects ratings more than anything

[D]

Exactly and why isn't it as popular?

cause the big guys who drew retired and u are left with people nowhere near able to fill their shoes.

[slash666]

Exactly and why isn't it as popular?

cause the big guys who drew retired and u are left with people nowhere near able to fill their shoes.

thats only one reason, another being people simply grew up. I mean alot of people get to that stage in there late teens where they figure wrestling isn't seen as cool and people generally want to fit in. It's a sad fact but true

[Gnrfan]

Cena draws but he isnt a big superstar draw

He isn't someone that significantly has a HUGE impact on the industry.

Hulk Hogan changed the industry twice
Stone Cold and The Rock changed the industry, HHH helped sustain that


Bret Hart, Shawn Micheals and John Cena are draws but hey aren't HUGE draws.


To get an idea of how shitty Cena is, consider he is the same position The Rock and Stone Cold were

Surely u can see the HUGE gap.

Its different times with different situations. Internet has changed it alot.

to say you follow wrestling these days doesn't mean you watch it.

Cena has drawn for 4 years and there is proof that when Cena isn't there ratings drop. There isn't as many people watching wrestling and therefore you can't influence people.

If you are trying to say that Cena isn't drawing people that don't watch then i'm not sure what else he can do.

Remember HBK, Bret, Hogan, Rock & Austin profited from a stronger supporting cast than Cena has due to the brand split. combine that the internets influence and i think his influence is more substanial than you think.

I don't agree with you and neither will alot of people that know more than me and you about wrestling. And thats all i got to say.

[D]

Hulk Hogan turning to the NWO changed WCW into a juggernaut

Stone Cold vs McMahon changed WWE

Throw in The Rock vs Stone Cold and it was just magic

Cena, Cant wrestle, he is awkward and clumsy in the ring, he has shit mic skills as he is corny as hell................

Do u honestly think anyone over 15 has John Cena merchandise?

I think he has little charisma and horrible psychology in the ring.

I bet he doesn't do half the merch as Stone Cold and The Rock did.

People forget wrestling was unpopular and shitty before Stone Cold and the Rock and the NWO.

which is what I am saying. Wrestilng is down because there are no huge draws anymore.

For fuck sake HHH was a midcarder back in the day thats how big SCSA and The Rock were.

[Gnrfan]

I bet he doesn't do half the merch as Stone Cold and The Rock did.

Well he did! Only D-X have sold more in a calendar year than Cena. Although Cena's peak year was 2006. and i'm not sure how well the internet was set up for sales back in the day.

I'm not sure that Cena is as Big as Austin or Rock. I have no evidence to back it up. But i know he is considered the biggest draw in WWE by the people in the business. I think even Kurt Angle said it recently.

Maybe there all wrong. 

[Izzy]

Cena is a big deal in wrestling

...but he's not a draw in the sense that he brings in those that dont normally watch

He sells t shirts and tickets for those already intrested in the show

The Rock and Stone Cold made people fans - Cena doesnt do that

No one is bigger in WWE right now - but that mainstream appeal so many other wrestlers had...well, Cena lacks

[Mr Cowbell ?]

Reason why ratings are down from 10 years ago?

One Thing.... MMA

10 years ago UFC was looking at bankruptcy and MMA didnt have a huge following.

UFC was bougth up and repackaged and became HUGE, they made weight classes and titles and its huegelly popular,

Hell you have EliteFC, WEC, had Pride, Affliation, more popping up, I think with the Rawness of MMA it has stolen the teenage fanes who were once wrestling fans.

[Gnrfan]

You have gotta love Santino. He draws so much heat. Dressed as all three... then somehow busts himself open during a promo. Only Santino

[BlowUpYourVideo]

Miz pins Punk? Kane pins Jericho? Zuh??

[D]

No Orton or HBK last night.............. that was weird.

Probably so people wouldn't be tempted to vote for them over SCSA.

[Izzy]

Reason why ratings are down from 10 years ago?

One Thing.... MMA

10 years ago UFC was looking at bankruptcy and MMA didnt have a huge following.

UFC was bougth up and repackaged and became HUGE, they made weight classes and titles and its huegelly popular,

Hell you have EliteFC, WEC, had Pride, Affliation, more popping up, I think with the Rawness of MMA it has stolen the teenage fanes who were once wrestling fans.

MMA and UFC are...i'm going to say it

Gay

Two sweaty men rolling around the floor ''grappling''

Makes me feel ill to be honest

I have no idea what the appeal of seeing people genuinely hurt is

[Gnrfan]

Reason why ratings are down from 10 years ago?

One Thing.... MMA

10 years ago UFC was looking at bankruptcy and MMA didnt have a huge following.

UFC was bougth up and repackaged and became HUGE, they made weight classes and titles and its huegelly popular,

Hell you have EliteFC, WEC, had Pride, Affliation, more popping up, I think with the Rawness of MMA it has stolen the teenage fanes who were once wrestling fans.

MMA and UFC are...i'm going to say it

Gay

Two sweaty men rolling around the floor ''grappling''

hahaha. I laugh coz i'm not a fan either really. i find it boring. But i'm laughing at the thought of you telling Chuck Liddell that MMA is gay

[Hammy]

Makes me feel ill to be honest

You really do have a weak stomach then don't you. 

Calling them "Gay",  I've lost count of the amount of times people use that as their criticism of wrestling.

A couple of guys in spandex...."Pretend fighting".

[Evolution]

I was nosing around the wrestling pages on Wikipedia and came across some pretty interesting reading when it came to recognized World Heavyweight Champions. The little "league" of Pro Wrestling Illustrated's title reigns throws up some notable results.

1. Ric Flair - 16* reigns (8 NWA, 6 WCW and 2 WWF)

2. Hulk Hogan - 12 reigns (6 WWF and 6 WCW)
-  Triple H - 12 reigns (7 WWF/E and 5 World Heavyweight)

3. Verne Gagne - 10 reigns (10 NWA)
-  Jeff Jarrett - 10 reigns (4 WCW and 6 NWA)
-  Sting - 10 reigns (2 NWA, 6 WCW and 2 TNA)

4. The Rock - 9 reigns (7 WWF/E and 2 WCW)

5. Harley Race - 8 reigns (8 NWA)
-  Kurt Angle - 8 reigns (4 WWF/E, 1 WCW, 1 World Heavyweight and 2 TNA)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PWI%27s_List_of_Wrestling_World_Heavyweight_Title_Reigns#World_Heavyweight_titles

[Hammy]

123456977859. Barry Darsow - 0

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PWI%27s_List_of_Wrestling_World_Heavyweight_Title_Reigns#World_Heavyweight_titles

Dammit! 

The terms WWE are using at the moment are getting really dumb.  I mean the WWE Universe thing was ok, until it started getting mentions every 5 seconds, I know they are trying to push it but come on.  And now just referring to the guys as "Entertainers".  Watching ECW this week and having Matt Striker say..."And we have three entertainers in the ring...." just sounded dumb! And now getting DQ'd is beyond easy:

As we reported earlier punches are now legal in WWE, which was a good change.

But it is getting tougher to be a heel in WWE given some other rule changes that are automatic DQs if seen by the ref.

There has already been at least one DQ finish for a heel using a handful of tights and being caught by the ref.

Choking with the hands or using the ropes to choke will be a DQ instead of a 5 count, if seen by the ref, and just added to the growing list are eye poke or rakes and throwing someone into the ringposts outside the ring. Both now will lead to a DQ too.

So WWE heels will need to get very sneaky now, or refs need to be easily distracted or both.

Edit: Hammy's Note: Rumour has it, if you look at the referee the wrong way you can get DQ'd

http://www.wrestlezone.com/article.php?articleid=226799215

[Evolution]

I read the reasoning behind the term changes was purely so WWE can avoid paying taxes on a "sporting event" and instead pay cheaper "entertainment event" fees. Plus they can avoid state laws on blading and whatnot.

Again on the Wikipedia angle, interesting to see the 10 wrestlers who have held the WWE Title the longest, as of October 24th 2008.

1.    Bruno Sammartino - 4,040
2.    Hulk Hogan - 2,185
3.    Bob Backlund - 2,138
4.    Pedro Morales - 1,027
5.    John Cena - 793
6.    Bret Hart - 654
7.    Steve Austin - 530
8.    Randy Savage - 520
9.    Triple H - 440+
10.  Shawn Michaels - 396

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WWE_Championship_reigns_by_length