Wrestling...thats right, Wrestling!

[Gnrfan]

No word on the match listing...yet.  At 3 Discs though It's guaranteed to cover some classics, I'll definately be picking this up.  This so reeks of awesomeness 

I'm hoping it has all the TLC Matches and the one with Foley.

Also found this:

 As we reported yesterday, the 2008 Survivor Series poster has been released and features Randy Orton. While original estimates had Orton returning to the ring in late October, there is a chance he'll be kept out of action until the PPV just to be safe. There are also hopes that John Cena will be healthy in time Survivor Series as well, since the event is being held in his hometown of Boston, Massachusetts.

[BlowUpYourVideo]

I'm hoping it has all the TLC Matches and the one with Foley.

It'll probably have at least one of them, but I don't see the third one being on there due to it featuring....that.... other wrestler of Canadian origin... Likewise, the first MITB Match. Thing with the Tag Team TLCs is, there were 5 other guys in the match and Edge was only one half of one team.

I imagine they'll have one of his PPV matches with Kurt Angle from 2002 on there. I don't remember much about them (aside from Kurt losing his hair) but people say they were good . The No Mercy 2001 Ladder Match with Christian maybe? That's the ones that spring to mind just now anyway.



Anyone else think that if they're going to have Batista VS. JBL, they should make it some kind of gimmick match, even if it's just a simple No DQ Match? I think if they just went at it in a match with no DQs, it could be quite entertaining; not so sure about a standard singles match.....

[Hammy]

Anyone else think that if they're going to have Batista VS. JBL, they should make it some kind of gimmick match, even if it's just a simple No DQ Match? I think if they just went at it in a match with no DQs, it could be quite entertaining; not so sure about a standard singles match.....

Very much agreed dude, they just don't gel together.

When they feuded before on Smackdown the matches were awful and Batista in interviews openly admitted the two of them just don't work well together.

Might be wise to have JBL winning just to swerve people into thinking Jericho won't win in the Main Event.  They can always have a screwjob JBL win and a rematch ( ) the next night with Batista winning.

I'd like Edge's match listing to be something like:

WWE Debut
A match with The Brood
TLC I
Edge vs Christian Ladder Match
Edge vs Kurt Angle, Hair vs Hair
Edge vs Kurt Angle, KOTR Final
Edge vs Lance Storm, Summerslam
Edge vs Randy Orton, RAW (The one he beat him cleanly)
Edge vs Shawn Michaels, Royal Rumble
Edge vs Mick Foley, Wrestlemania
Edge vs John Cena, New Years Revolution (Cashing In)
Edge vs John Cena, TLC
Edge vs Undertaker, Wrestlemania

[Gnrfan]

Does anyone else think that WWE has got the PPV system wrong these days?

I mean they just leave so much talent off PPV's. I mean when you have a PPV that is missing Santino, Shelton, Priceless, Carlito/Primo, Kendrick, Orton, CM Punk, MVP, Cade, Koslov to name just a few... you have got to be doing something wrong. I know there is a strong possibility that we will see Santino, Orton, Priceless, Cade & Koslov during the PPV, but its not the same.

I mean CM Punk has gone from Champion to nowhere. He should be out there saying he is still the real champion and no one ever beat him for his title. Or he should be going after Orton, Priceless & Manu. What would be wrong with a CM Punk & Cryme Tyme vs Priceless & Manu match. Or a 3-Way with Shelton, R-Truth & Kendrick for the US title.

I mean we have 6 one-on-one matches with 4 titles on the line. I'd just like to see some variation there. 3 of the 5 guys from the SD scramble match are not even on this PPV and 3 of the best SD has to offer, in MVP, Kendrick & Shelton.

And as well as these guys being left off the PPV, there is Cena, Kennedy, Umaga, Orton & Edge to come back too. Which is only gonna force people further down the pecking order. I know that single brand PPV did not sell that well but they did allow for new faces to get PPV experience. And i think some form of compremise is needed, so that the buyrates are good but each brand has control over a certain amount of PPV's a year, even if it features other brand matches.

I think the main problem WWE has is they don't mix up which titles are defended on PPV enough. They need some sort of yearly system to keep fans interested in the titles. I think something like this:

Over 14 PPV's

WWE Title should be defended on all 14
World Title should be defended on all 14
ECW should be defended on 12
IC Title should be defended on 6 (not with US title)
US Tilte should be defended on 6 (Not with IC title)
RAW Tag should be defended on 5 (Not with SD tag)
SD Tag should be defended on 5 (Not with RAW tag)
Womens should be defended on 4 (not with Divas)
Divas should be defended on 4 (not with Womens)

This way you have a midcard title on 12 PPV out of 14 and a Tag title defended on 10 out of 14 PPV and a Womens title on 8 out of 14 PPV.

[Hammy]

^ The roster is way to bloated, they need to ditch a lot of those who are past their best, but they won't cos they KNOW that a lot of the old guys are still big draws and would do well elsewhere.

I mean personally I'd be happy to see Kane, Mysterio and Big Show get released and JBL going back to being a commentator.

I couldn't really care less about them.

One of the problems is because of the overcrowded roster we have too many main eventers, many need to go.

Look at this weekends event.

Match 1: Kane vs Rey.  Both former World Champs
Match 2: Batista vs JBL.  Both former World Champs
Match 3: Beth Phoenix vs Candice Michelle (Candice can't work a lick but that's not relevant to the argument)
Match 4: Big Show vs Undertaker.  Both former World Champs
Match 5: Triple H vs Jeff Hardy.  One many a time World Champ
Match 6: Matt Hardy vs Mark Henry.  Both "Technically World Champs" of a sort, you know, ECW Belts not really all that but still...
Match 7: Chris Jericho vs HBK.  Both former World Champs.

There is no lower-to midcard-to upper midcard-to main event spread.

Quick re-booking, what I'd like to see.

Match 1: WWE Tag Team Title Match: Biscuits & Gravy vs Primo & Carlito vs Ryder & Hawkins vs The Brian Kendrick & Ezekiel
Match 2: World Tag Team Title Match: Punk & Kingston vs Priceless
Match 3: ECW Title Match: John Morrison vs Matt Hardy
Match 4: Special Challenge Match: Evan Bourne vs Manu
Match 5: US Title Match: Shelton Benjamin vs R-Truth
Match 6: WWE Title Match: Triple H vs Jeff Hardy (I'm cool with that match as is)
Match 7: Women's Interbrand Tag Match: Beth Phoenix & Nattie Neidhart vs Mickie James & Michelle McCool
Match 8: World Title Ladder Match: Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels (I'm cool with this match too)

[D]

Sorry Hammy but I like NO Mercy way better than your card.

[Gnrfan]

What the card is doesn't make that much difference to me.

Its just a shame when we dont see guys like MVP, Kendrick, Shelton & Bourne but they continue to find room for guys like JBL, Henry, Show & Kane.

Its not that i hate those workers noe do think they should never be on PPV but its how you use them within the company. I've always been a fan of a big guy/small guy tag teams and in Kane, Big Show & Henry i would like to see them paired up with other guys.

I mean i'm just not interested in them as singles wrestlers anymore. Kane is poor mans taker, JBL is a good champion heel but is old, Henry looks the part but needs to be carried and show is talented for a man his size but i think he was at his best in ECW as a dominant champion... something which isn't likely to happen on RAW or SD for any great length of time.

Every Match On No Mercy Could improve:

Kane vs Rey - Hasn't worked if this match is a blow off then its rubbish and if it keeps going it needs to get better quickly.

Batista vs JBL - How many chances does JBL get at this title. I mean i can see why Batista is there he hasn't lost many matches recently and beat Cena. But JBL has lost to CM Punk twice. Why? And aside from that we've seen this Feud on SD before and none of the matches was that great.

Beth vs Candice - Aside from Beth, Mickie and Natalya i really dont wanna see women wrestling on PPV. Especially when you have so much other talent sitting on their ass backstage. Not too happy about this match. Would have much preferred CM Punk vs Manu or CM Punk & Cryme Tyme vs Priceless & Manu.

Big Show vs Taker - Its gonna be average at best.... Personally i dont think the build up has been to Undertaker's high standards either. Another Kane / Mysterio for me.

HHH vs Jeff Hardy - On Paper it looks a good match. Jeff has a win over HHH on PPV so its an interesting one as many beleive that eventully Jeff will win a world title. Personally i'd have loved to have seen Koslov in there too. Or them push MVP more since the scramble match and shove him in the mix.

Matt Hardy vs Henry - I like this feud. And i like the match. Henry has impressed me on ECW and Matt Hardy has carried him well. A dark horse for match of the night.

Jericho vs HBK - Most likely the match of the night and in truth a match that i wouldn't change. But the match has to handled so carefully for Y2J to have credibility as a champion and i worry that they may try and save HBK's prestige rather than show off Y2J's talents.

[Hammy]

Sorry Hammy but I like NO Mercy way better than your card.

Hardly a shocker, you ALWAYS disagree with me. 

Matt Hardy vs Henry - I like this feud. And i like the match. Henry has impressed me on ECW and Matt Hardy has carried him well. A dark horse for match of the night.

Either Hardy is a miracle worker or if this was match of the night, it's going to be a really bad night.

[Gnrfan]

Matt Hardy vs Henry - I like this feud. And i like the match. Henry has impressed me on ECW and Matt Hardy has carried him well. A dark horse for match of the night.

Either Hardy is a miracle worker or if this was match of the night, it's going to be a really bad night.

I'm not saying its gonna be a classic. But i'm invested in their feud more so than Kane/Mysterio & Taker/Big Show.... pretty much every match aside from HBK vs Y2J. And i think that some of their matches on ECW have been better than decent. Henry has certainly improved and plays to his character well, also the ECW writers have booked the feud well IMO.

And yes Hammy with Batista vs JBL, Big Show vs an half injured Undertaker, Rey trying to get Kane to sell something and Beth vs Candice.... it could be a really bad night

[Hammy]

Matt Hardy vs Henry - I like this feud. And i like the match. Henry has impressed me on ECW and Matt Hardy has carried him well. A dark horse for match of the night.

Either Hardy is a miracle worker or if this was match of the night, it's going to be a really bad night.

I'm not saying its gonna be a classic. But i'm invested in their feud more so than Kane/Mysterio & Taker/Big Show.... pretty much every match aside from HBK vs Y2J. And i think that some of their matches on ECW have been better than decent. Henry has certainly improved and plays to his character well, also the ECW writers have booked the feud well IMO.

And yes Hammy with Batista vs JBL, Big Show vs an half injured Undertaker, Rey trying to get Kane to sell something and Beth vs Candice.... it could be a really bad night

Oh aye I agree those matches are going to be shoddy as hell and Hardy has done a good job with him and Henry has been carried better than ever.  But stretching to match of the night would just worry me as for how the Ladder Match turned out.

[Gnrfan]

Matt Hardy vs Henry - I like this feud. And i like the match. Henry has impressed me on ECW and Matt Hardy has carried him well. A dark horse for match of the night.

Either Hardy is a miracle worker or if this was match of the night, it's going to be a really bad night.

I'm not saying its gonna be a classic. But i'm invested in their feud more so than Kane/Mysterio & Taker/Big Show.... pretty much every match aside from HBK vs Y2J. And i think that some of their matches on ECW have been better than decent. Henry has certainly improved and plays to his character well, also the ECW writers have booked the feud well IMO.

And yes Hammy with Batista vs JBL, Big Show vs an half injured Undertaker, Rey trying to get Kane to sell something and Beth vs Candice.... it could be a really bad night

Oh aye I agree those matches are going to be shoddy as hell and Hardy has done a good job with him and Henry has been carried better than ever.  But stretching to match of the night would just worry me as for how the Ladder Match turned out.

Thats why its a "Dark Horse". Its not expected coz of the ladder match.... but expectation is high for that match. Sometimes matches you expect to suck stick out coz they are unexpected sucess as where matches that are better but failt to match the hype can be forgotten.

As much as i dislike the guy.... I dont think HBK will allow it to be a bad match. This feud deserved more than that rubbish Unsanctioned match and i think they'll deliver mainly coz HBK sets himselfs high standards for matches like this. Remember his best ladder matches .... he lost IMO

[Izzy]

No Mercy - the worst PPV of the year?

Nothing on the card intrestes me in anyway, certainly wont be buying this one

I'd have to hope Michaels takes the title - because Jericho just wastes the championship, he gains nothing from it

[Izzy]

I gotta hope next Wrestlemania copies this weeks Smackdown - unite all the championships, for the love of god, do it already

[jacko]

I gotta hope next Wrestlemania copies this weeks Smackdown - unite all the championships, for the love of god, do it already

u mean  merging into 1 brand? or just to see the best of the best... i say the 2nd ..have a cup or trophy thing like king of kings for all championships ...

wasnt there a trophy for 3man tag way back when in wcw or nwa? ... and what was that trophy andre got that was smaller than hogans which in part lead to wrestlemania 3 grudge match?

[w.axl.rose]

No Mercy - the worst PPV of the year?

Nothing on the card intrestes me in anyway, certainly wont be buying this one

I'd have to hope Michaels takes the title - because Jericho just wastes the championship, he gains nothing from it

get a black box then you dont have to worry about paying 

[Mr Cowbell ?]

While Im not the biggest supporter of the 3 Brands, WWE should atleast have 4 PPVs a year that are RAW only and 4 that are SD Only.  Back when the "brand split" happened you hardly EVER seen SD and RAW guys in the rings together except for the 5 big PPVS RR, WM, SS,SS.  WHich was kool, it was a treat every once and awhile to see them on the other show.  WWE commentators made it out to be a HUGE deal when wrestlers would show up on the other guys brands. THey tried and sell it as if a WCW guy was showing up in WWF in the heyday. 

Problem is the PPVs didnt sell as well, so they came up with a Tri Band. So now instead of having just RAW PPV and having 6-8 weeks to sell the PPV for buyers, they put all the brands together so now you got 3 Brands, promoting 1 event every 4 weeks.

Instead of having 6 to 8 times on TV to promote your event
You know have 12 times on TV to 3 different channels and 3 sets of audiences.

So PPV sales went up. Now to be in theory Promote all 3 brands you got to have a match from every brand so every PPV will have the ECW championship on it. Thats just the fact what other ECW fued or match could be thrown on one? If anything when Matt Hardy got "drafted" to ECW brining the US title there I was hoping the US title would stay there, that is a show with alot of young talent getting on tv and I think it would be great to have fueds with midcarders for the belt on that show.

Every PPV will have a World Championship Match
Every PPV will have a WWE Championship Match
Every PPV will have a Diva / WOmans title match or linerie match.

     Its part of the formal to reach all audiences, and now heres the problem, thats 4 out of the 7-8 Matches on EVERY PPV. IF its the RR PPV thats probalby all the other matches they will have besides the Rumble. If its the SS its probalby all the matches they will have along with 1 or 2 tradional SS matches with brands against brands.

   Also WWE is so Top Heavy with Main Eventers, you need to get people like JBL, Bastita, Rey Mysterio, CENA when he comes back, RKO, CM Punk possibly?? Thats 6 jabronies you need to throw into 2 or 3 matches, so even at the bare minimum you are now up to 6 out of 7-8 matches, Doesnt leave much room for Mid Card Titles or Mid Card wrestlers, except to job in Rumbles or scrambles.

I just feel they need 3-4 SD & Raw and atleast 1 ECW only PPV, if they are worried about buy rates, why not sell them at a cheaper price? Make them only half of what they normally sell them for as a SPECIAL EVENT, or event make it an INTERNET ONLY PPV, they could sell them for $10 straight off their website and make just about as much as selling it for $45 through a satellite provider. GIve them a chance to defend the titles and build up the stars of tomorrow.




---CM Punk, what terrible booking, He always seem to be in the right place at the right time. With WWE trying to swerve us with having both champions on SD CM Punk comes out and cashes in on an injured Edge, and he only got the MITB because Jeff Hardy was pulled for drugs suspention.   MY question has there ever been a world champion who lost their title as cheap as CM Punk did who only got a cheap rematch as the opener, not even the main event on RAW and after that match the fued is done, because he blames Priceless?  You are world champion but because Priceless helped take you out, its cool not to be world champion and just go after their tag belts now. No I don't want my Rolls Royce back, I am am going to go after a nice ford tempo. MAKES NO SENSE.

[BlowUpYourVideo]

Big Show/Undertaker and Batista/JBL have the potential to be somewhat disastrous. That's my, uh, critical analysis.

I find it odd that they chose to put two "big men" matches on the same show. A PPV no less....

The Ladder Match should be good though. The only thing about Ladder Matches is, you can often see spots coming before they happen. If a bunch of tables get stacked up outside the ring, someone, likely HBK, is going through them.



Agreed about the number of main eventers. There's a good 15 or so guys that are main event-level: HHH, Undertaker, Edge, Cena, Orton, Batista, Mysterio, Kane, HBK, Jericho, Show, Punk, JBL, the two Hardys etc. . Then there's guys like Umaga, MVP, Khali and Kennedy....

I guess would it be awkward to release some of them though...

[Hammy]

As expected No Mercy was one of the more lacking shows of the year.

The opening match, Matt Hardy vs Mark Henry was as good as could be expected.  They went down the intelligent old school route that I like having Hardy working over Henry's leg throughout the match, bringing in some tactical psychology which would impact on the match in the latter stages.  Obviously this wasn't a 5 star classic heck it wasn't a 3 star one but it was a solid start.

Next we had Beth Phoenix w/ Santino Marella taking on Candice Michelle.  It was a short match (aren't most women's) and as expected nothing special. the exchanges in the last minute of so were amusing, having Santino helping Beth, then nearly costing her the match.

3rd up, Rey Mysterio and Kane and for me these two just don't work well together, it doesn't help that the feud has not inspired me, the feud is wretched and is going to continue.  Mysterio was never going to lose the mask, but he also wasn't getting the clean win.  And in the latter stages when things were picking up and Mysterio was flying around, he flew straight into a steel chair Kane was holding and that was that.

Before the next match we had MVP hitting the ring complaining about not getting a match on the PPV.  Randy Orton as seems to be the custom these days, came out and slated MVP which led Team Priceless to interrupt and once again go at it with Orton.  Keeping up with the theme of not being impressed by them Orton departed leaving MVP to heap praise on Priceless who didn't take kindly to it and shot down MVP.  MVP left, annoyed telling them he'd remember this, as he was walking up the ramp, CM Punk's music hit and the crowd went crazy.  You'd of thought it was his hometown (Maybe it was I forget where the show was from) this dude is super over, least in some places.  Kofi "Boom Boom" Kingston was with him and after a bit of a chat with MVP, the 3 of them agreed to storm the ring and attack Priceless.  They ran down and at the last minute Punk and Kingston held back letting MVP slide in on his own and take a beating (The guy really is in the dog house it seems), after a quick beating they jumped in and attacked Priceless while Manu fought MVP on the outside.  Overall it was quite an entertaining segment, featuring what is and should be the future of the business (Aside from Kofi...obviously), these guys should of been wrestling on the show instead of tired acts like Kane, Mysterio, Big Show, Mark Henry etc.

4th match was the #1 Contenders Match that nobody wanted to see.  Batista has a habit of just coming out and cutting promo's along the lines of "The title is mine and come sunday I'll be taking my belt back etc etc", the amount of title shots he has without actually winning the belt is laughable especially since he often get's 3 or 4 attempts in a row.  Being up against JBL the resident fatty on RAW you knew the match would suck and it was very likely Batista would win.  Unless they wanted to drag this out and have Batista win the #1 Contendership at a later date, but even WWE must have realised we did not want to see these guys more than once.  Clearly they remembered how horrid their previous battles were as this match was very, very short with Batista winning in like....5 minutes?

Post match JBL babbled on about this being a bad week (money crisis and all), how the fans loved him and in the middle of this Cryme Tyme's music hit and they appeared on the Titantron where they pretty much nabbed JBL's Limo and had a bunch of Diva's dance there way into the Limo, and for random value Sgt. Slaughter danced his way in there to, weird.  Following this we had Cryme Tyme and Mickie James singing the "Money Money.....Yeah Yeah" as the Limo drove off (Oh and Mickie managed to botch that  )

5th match we had Big Show taking on Undertaker.  Clearly with this being the (gulp) 1st match of the feud they wanted to set the seeds for a rematch, so obviously they gave the heel the duke by dastardly methods.  Well I say dastardly, he did the old, remove the turnbuckle pad, Undertaker's face hits the unprotected steel, 3 Big Show punches later and he was out cold routine.  This match was never going to be good, these guys need a gimmick match to make it enjoyable, although I'm sure we'll get that at say....Survivor Series.

For me the next match Triple H vs Jeff Hardy was match of the night.  These two had a fantastic back and forth battle and the crowd were so hot for this match (way more than any other match on the card).  There were some great nearfalls late on, and it was good to have a clean finish, no interference and despite Triple H retaining they managed to make Jeff Hardy look like a million dollars.  The whole Hardy coming so close yet just missing out angle is great....as long as the eventual pay off is him winning the belt, obviously that's being held off 'cos he is kind of on parole and his 1 strike away from being sacked does make things awkward.  Some might think giving him the WWE Title would make him work harder to stay on the straight and narrow, but there have been stars in the past who have struggled to cope with the pressure and they hardly want to put the guy under pressure and at risk of falling off the wagon now...

The Main Event, for me personally did not live up to expectations.  Some of the spots were awful the worst being Jericho basically crawling over for Shawn Michaels to hit him with the elbow drop off the top.  Clearly Jericho had fallen too far and needed to get into place for the spot, but try ignoring the fact that he's crawling over, pulling the ladder on top of himself and waiting for Shawn to jump onto him.  There were your usual enjoyable spots, Bump through the announce table and such but it was nothing to write home about and will not be going down as a Ladder Match classic.  The ending was an interesting one and a different take to the usual finishes in these matches, having the two guys holding on to the belt battling in a tug of war (That spot had so much potential to go wrong) when it finished you were left thinking, meh? That's it, at least I was.  The only other notable things from the match were Lance Cade ran down as expected and got nailed with Sweet Chin Music (again), and Jericho's mouth took a beating.

Overall not a good show.  I liked the WWE Title Match and the MVP/Orton/Priceless/Punk/Kingston segment.  Apart from that not much (Oh there was a backstage segment earlier in the show with Triple H and Jeff Hardy, that was quite funny).

Onto Cyber Sunday, it's early but the card is probably going to feature:

Triple H vs Vladimir Kozlov

Chris Jericho vs Batista

CM Punk & Kofi Kingston vs Priceless

Kane vs Rey Mysterio II: This time it's (more) personal!

And on RAW tonight, look out for Haasberg!

Edit: I take back what I said on the Ladder Match, I've just finished re-watching it and quite enjoyed it.

[Izzy]

Jericho lost a tooth - and after all those Benoit jibes he used to do....

...speaking of odd comments on the mike, Angle this week making jibes at Jarrett's dead wife....eh? Not sure if Angle hates the guts of Jarrett or is putting on a master class of acting

[Gnrfan]

No Mercy! Hmmm

Worst of the year for me.

HHH vs Hardy was good and enjoyable. Mainly because it was the only match that i thought could go either way. Although i expected Taker to win, it became clear a quarter of the way through that Big Show was gonna get the win.

Ladder Match... was Ok, i'm not gonna bash it but if you compare Y2J vs HBK to Lethal vs Dutt in TNA... theres only one winner. I just thought it would be better. And we all know that we will see better ladder matches in the future. My Only gripe is Cade... now i know its gonna turn into a feud and one i'm interested in. But how obvious can you be? Jericho needed a win that showed he was good enough to be champion.... and even though Cade was less than effective i think it still takes away a little.

Am i the only one hates ladder matches for Main Events? I just think all the best Ladder Matches are for lower titles like Tag or IC or MITB, which for me continues to impress me.

I think Matt Hardy vs Henry was very solid and i once again have to say when Henry fights Hardy i'm impressed with his Psychology and presence. I've seen him stink up the ring but on No Mercy's performances he entertained me more than Big Show and Kane.

I'm not gonna go through every match because i think most of them were poor, but i will repeat my comments that wwe needs to sort a system out to get other titles on the PPV's. Maybe make matches shorter.... i dont care. People like Priceless, CM Punk, MVP & Shelton Benjamin NEED to be on PPV's and it worries me that they are not even with Edge, Cena & Orton not involved at present, who you feel will be when they return.