Wrestling...thats right, Wrestling!

[Axl4Life]

Oh and Stoned if HBK had passed out to the STFU i think that would totally de-value the main event. Mania is about winners and losers.

No, it makes the move look devastating and also protects Michaels more with the he wouldn't quit thing ala Austin at WM13 and gives a great reason straight off for a rematch, also, with that scenario he would still of been the loser....

To ne fair thats not true, the fact that the move has made both members of dx tap out at straight mania main events makes the move look devastating. If Michaels passed out it would have put him over more than cena which would defeat the object, hbk doesn't need protecting, cena does.

Why would they want to "protect" Cena even more than they already have? A few losses now and again wouldn't do him any fuckin harm...

There building him as a cross between the next Hogan/Rock.  The commentators said he's had the belt 20 of the past 24 months and i think the great thing about him holding onto it for so long is when he does drop it it will be really special.  He is getting better as well, he's had some really good title matches recently, TLC with Edge, Last Man Standing with Umaga, last night with HBK.....

Yeah, but even the rock and hogan lose sometimes....Well maybe not hogan but you get the picture 
My point is that if they desperatley want to make cena look so great, they should let him drop the title and then eventually win it back, not continuesly dominate every fuckin challenger that comes by.

[Sober_times]

The fans turning on Cena again can't be that far away. The constant push has left him with no-one left to beat anyway.

I agree. I don't think it can go much longer, but that maybe just my feeling of hatred towards cena. He sux, why has this guy been champion so long?

You know him and hbk will have a rematch at backlash but I have a feeling their gonna put HBK as more of a heel. Now that he couldn't beat cena man to man he now has too use tactics a "good guy" wouldn't nessacarily use. ?

That is precisely what he was doing last night.

Yes and no. Not outrightly so. Least I didn't think so, maybe i'll watch the match again, but I didn't think he was looking strikingly heel in that match. Like i believe he will in his rematch. ?

[Axl4Life]

The fans turning on Cena again can't be that far away. The constant push has left him with no-one left to beat anyway.

I agree. I don't think it can go much longer, but that maybe just my feeling of hatred towards cena. He sux, why has this guy been champion so long?

You know him and hbk will have a rematch at backlash but I have a feeling their gonna put HBK as more of a heel. Now that he couldn't beat cena man to man he now has too use tactics a "good guy" wouldn't nessacarily use. 

That is precisely what he was doing last night.

Yes and no. Not outrightly so. Least I didn't think so, maybe i'll watch the match again, but I didn't think he was looking strikingly heel in that match. Like i believe he will in his rematch. 

No he defintley was, especially at the start. He slapped him in the face, then kept tauntin Cena, making him angry and so on so forth...

[Hammy]

HBK is and will forever be loved by the fans and can do no wrong in their eyes, him losing , even by tap out, does him no harm at all.

True, on the big stage going out like that does you no harm. ?The problem is when you wrestle every week and have been jobbed out as much as Ric Flair, it pains me to see it because i really feel like he has damaged his legacy.

A few more Wrestlemania notes of mine:

MVP's entrance was great, and re-watching his match again he really is damn impressive in the ring.



...Speaking of cool entrances



Seeing the MITB again Orton disappearing for the last 5 minutes was just wacky booking, the match is damn good though.

As a nice way to get them on Mania in some form it would of been good if Nitro had come down with Melina and Londrick with Ashley.....


...and somebody give this guy an Oscar

[Sober_times]

The fans turning on Cena again can't be that far away. The constant push has left him with no-one left to beat anyway.

I agree. I don't think it can go much longer, but that maybe just my feeling of hatred towards cena. He sux, why has this guy been champion so long?

You know him and hbk will have a rematch at backlash but I have a feeling their gonna put HBK as more of a heel. Now that he couldn't beat cena man to man he now has too use tactics a "good guy" wouldn't nessacarily use.?

That is precisely what he was doing last night.

Yes and no. Not outrightly so. Least I didn't think so, maybe i'll watch the match again, but I didn't think he was looking strikingly heel in that match. Like i believe he will in his rematch.?

No he defintley was, especially at the start. He slapped him in the face, then kept tauntin Cena, making him angry and so on so forth...

Ya he was doing that, but what i mean is the heel thing. Doing whatever you got to do to win. Lots of good guys, bad guys, and in between have slapped people in the faces and taunted their oppenents. What I mean is I think they'll have hbk resort to more heel tactics as use a weapon, knock out a ref, you know all the things heels do when they can't win man to man.?

[Borat]

I think its been well documented that HBK never wants to play fully fledged heel again and was uncomfortable in doing so for just a month against hogan in 2005. Last night he did take up the heel role, full with mannerisms and actions to attempt to neutralise the crowd which he did pretty succesfully. He DID knock out the ref last night and performed a viscious spike piledriver onto steel steps aswell, i can't really see him heeling it up any more that that, i may be wrong i guess we'll see on raw tonight. Anyone else find it odd that they are still using dx music and entrance for him?

One other observation from last night, I don't know whether to feel sorry for Joey Styles and Tazz for having to sit there for 4 hours (half with no desk!) to commentate on one 10 minute match or to envy them for having the best seat in the house for free without having to work!

[Axl4Life]

The fans turning on Cena again can't be that far away. The constant push has left him with no-one left to beat anyway.

I agree. I don't think it can go much longer, but that maybe just my feeling of hatred towards cena. He sux, why has this guy been champion so long?

You know him and hbk will have a rematch at backlash but I have a feeling their gonna put HBK as more of a heel. Now that he couldn't beat cena man to man he now has too use tactics a "good guy" wouldn't nessacarily use. 

That is precisely what he was doing last night.

Yes and no. Not outrightly so. Least I didn't think so, maybe i'll watch the match again, but I didn't think he was looking strikingly heel in that match. Like i believe he will in his rematch. 

No he defintley was, especially at the start. He slapped him in the face, then kept tauntin Cena, making him angry and so on so forth...

Ya he was doing that, but what i mean is the heel thing. Doing whatever you got to do to win. Lots of good guys, bad guys, and in between have slapped people in the faces and taunted their oppenents. What I mean is I think they'll have hbk resort to more heel tactics as use a weapon, knock out a ref, you know all the things heels do when they can't win man to man. 

Oh yeah, I know what your saying, but I thought HBK was against playing a heel. (although he sort of was playin one last night)

Remember the Hogan/HBK fued. He was finally persuaded to be the heel in the fued, although he was very reluctant and only agreed to the position as long as he would turn face again after they had their match. Apparently he prefers playing the good guy because of his religion and being born again and what not.

Although, on a side note, did anyone else notice last night that when HBK spike piledrived cena on the steps and went to lift him back in the ring he was struggling carrying cenas dead weight and uttered the words "oooooohhh shhhiii"
So much for "The Prodigal Son" Edge was right, no matter what he says, or anyone else for that matter, he's still the same old Shawn Michaels. 

[Sober_times]

I think its been well documented that HBK never wants to play fully fledged heel again and was uncomfortable in doing so for just a month against hogan in 2005. Last night he did take up the heel role, full with mannerisms and actions to attempt to neutralise the crowd which he did pretty succesfully. He DID knock out the ref last night and performed a viscious spike piledriver onto steel steps aswell, i can't really see him heeling it up any more that that, i may be wrong i guess we'll see on raw tonight. Anyone else find it odd that they are still using dx music and entrance for him?

One other observation from last night, I don't know whether to feel sorry for Joey Styles and Tazz for having to sit there for 4 hours (half with no desk!) to commentate on one 10 minute match or to envy them for having the best seat in the house for free without having to work!

Ya but the knocking out of the ref looked like it was "unintentional". If hes gonna be a heel hes gotta just lay out the ref like angle has done.?

I don't find its too odd that he's still using DX music. The fans are still digging it and I am as well. HHH maybe out for quite sometime but they couldn't just drop the whole DX thing right than and there. Though I dont see it going much longer. But perhaps it will. 

[Borat]

I think its been well documented that HBK never wants to play fully fledged heel again and was uncomfortable in doing so for just a month against hogan in 2005. Last night he did take up the heel role, full with mannerisms and actions to attempt to neutralise the crowd which he did pretty succesfully. He DID knock out the ref last night and performed a viscious spike piledriver onto steel steps aswell, i can't really see him heeling it up any more that that, i may be wrong i guess we'll see on raw tonight. Anyone else find it odd that they are still using dx music and entrance for him?

One other observation from last night, I don't know whether to feel sorry for Joey Styles and Tazz for having to sit there for 4 hours (half with no desk!) to commentate on one 10 minute match or to envy them for having the best seat in the house for free without having to work!

Ya but the knocking out of the ref looked like it was "unintentional". If hes gonna be a heel hes gotta just lay out the ref like angle has done.?

I don't find its too odd that he's still using DX music. The fans are still digging it and I am as well. HHH maybe out for quite sometime but they couldn't just drop the whole DX thing right than and there. Though I dont see it going much longer. But perhaps it will.?

Maybe they have plans, new members or something, its just strange as he didn't really embrace the return of dx like hhh did and i thought if they werent going anywhere with it they would just drop it, we'll see.

I've just watched the taker/batista match back and at the end you can see him utter something to the ref, i have just read on a site that it looks like he said 'get him out of here' with reference to batista still lying in the ring.

[Axl4Life]

I think its been well documented that HBK never wants to play fully fledged heel again and was uncomfortable in doing so for just a month against hogan in 2005. Last night he did take up the heel role, full with mannerisms and actions to attempt to neutralise the crowd which he did pretty succesfully. He DID knock out the ref last night and performed a viscious spike piledriver onto steel steps aswell, i can't really see him heeling it up any more that that, i may be wrong i guess we'll see on raw tonight. Anyone else find it odd that they are still using dx music and entrance for him?

One other observation from last night, I don't know whether to feel sorry for Joey Styles and Tazz for having to sit there for 4 hours (half with no desk!) to commentate on one 10 minute match or to envy them for having the best seat in the house for free without having to work!

Ya but the knocking out of the ref looked like it was "unintentional". If hes gonna be a heel hes gotta just lay out the ref like angle has done. 

I don't find its too odd that he's still using DX music. The fans are still digging it and I am as well. HHH maybe out for quite sometime but they couldn't just drop the whole DX thing right than and there. Though I dont see it going much longer. But perhaps it will. 

I think having the DX entrance and music is all about his new persona. ("The Heartbreak Kid Shawn Michaels is back")
It's all about his new attitude and does more than the sexy boy theme would do for a 41 year old.

[Sober_times]

I think its been well documented that HBK never wants to play fully fledged heel again and was uncomfortable in doing so for just a month against hogan in 2005. Last night he did take up the heel role, full with mannerisms and actions to attempt to neutralise the crowd which he did pretty succesfully. He DID knock out the ref last night and performed a viscious spike piledriver onto steel steps aswell, i can't really see him heeling it up any more that that, i may be wrong i guess we'll see on raw tonight. Anyone else find it odd that they are still using dx music and entrance for him?

One other observation from last night, I don't know whether to feel sorry for Joey Styles and Tazz for having to sit there for 4 hours (half with no desk!) to commentate on one 10 minute match or to envy them for having the best seat in the house for free without having to work!

Ya but the knocking out of the ref looked like it was "unintentional". If hes gonna be a heel hes gotta just lay out the ref like angle has done.?

I don't find its too odd that he's still using DX music. The fans are still digging it and I am as well. HHH maybe out for quite sometime but they couldn't just drop the whole DX thing right than and there. Though I dont see it going much longer. But perhaps it will.?

Maybe they have plans, new members or something, its just strange as he didn't really embrace the return of dx like hhh did and i thought if they werent going anywhere with it they would just drop it, we'll see.

I've just watched the taker/batista match back and at the end you can see him utter something to the ref, i have just read on a site that it looks like he said 'get him out of here' with reference to batista still lying in the ring.

I thought that he was against the DX renunion but once it started going there were reports saying he was having fun with it. Both of them really liked where it was going at the time HHH got hurt. I guess we can never trully know his true feelings on it. I do remember the reports of him not wanting to be a heel. But if he's fighting cena, theres not much else they can go with it. But damn HBK is long overdue on a title run.?

[Gnrfan]

HBK is and will forever be loved by the fans and can do no wrong in their eyes, him losing , even by tap out, does him no harm at all.

True, on the big stage going out like that does you no harm. ?The problem is when you wrestle every week and have been jobbed out as much as Ric Flair, it pains me to see it because i really feel like he has damaged his legacy.

A few more Wrestlemania notes of mine:

MVP's entrance was great, and re-watching his match again he really is damn impressive in the ring.



...Speaking of cool entrances



Seeing the MITB again Orton disappearing for the last 5 minutes was just wacky booking, the match is damn good though.

As a nice way to get them on Mania in some form it would of been good if Nitro had come down with Melina and Londrick with Ashley.....


...and somebody give this guy an Oscar

Great stoned.

Yeah MVP vs Benoit was technically brilliant. Just as MITB match was Spot-crazy good. I think that what made it a solid PPV.

Vince is a genius. i loved him in the billionaires match. his facial expressions were great.

[Gnrfan]

I think its been well documented that HBK never wants to play fully fledged heel again and was uncomfortable in doing so for just a month against hogan in 2005. Last night he did take up the heel role, full with mannerisms and actions to attempt to neutralise the crowd which he did pretty succesfully. He DID knock out the ref last night and performed a viscious spike piledriver onto steel steps aswell, i can't really see him heeling it up any more that that, i may be wrong i guess we'll see on raw tonight. Anyone else find it odd that they are still using dx music and entrance for him?

One other observation from last night, I don't know whether to feel sorry for Joey Styles and Tazz for having to sit there for 4 hours (half with no desk!) to commentate on one 10 minute match or to envy them for having the best seat in the house for free without having to work!

Ya but the knocking out of the ref looked like it was "unintentional". If hes gonna be a heel hes gotta just lay out the ref like angle has done.?

I don't find its too odd that he's still using DX music. The fans are still digging it and I am as well. HHH maybe out for quite sometime but they couldn't just drop the whole DX thing right than and there. Though I dont see it going much longer. But perhaps it will.?

Maybe they have plans, new members or something, its just strange as he didn't really embrace the return of dx like hhh did and i thought if they werent going anywhere with it they would just drop it, we'll see.

I've just watched the taker/batista match back and at the end you can see him utter something to the ref, i have just read on a site that it looks like he said 'get him out of here' with reference to batista still lying in the ring.

But damn HBK is long overdue on a title run.?

Oh god no.

HBK is the sort of wrestler who should never get it again. You could put him against any wrestler i.e. title match or not. and the match wont be aweful.

But i think its time to bring on another generation of champions. i mean you guys said it yourself. Cena has had the belt for ages (personally i think hes got better as the reign has gone on) but that gives the title credibility. Lets get Edge, Kennedy, Lashley, Orton, MVP, RVD and CM Punk up there in the same category and people like Undertaker, Cena, HBK, HHH, Batista and Benoit can get them up there.

Personally i'd love to see CM Punk vs HBK and Kennedy vs HHH (eventully)

Remember without taking a chance on youth and backing them we wouldn't have charecters like The Rock, Cena, HHH and even Austin (altho i know he was older).

Giving HBK the title would be the wrong direction for me. And now Cena is definatly in their league. And now we have two champions who are in a perfect position to put two other guys totally over with a clean loss.

Dont get me wrong. Undertaker winning last night was great and IMO he deserves the title run more than HBK. but its gonna be his last. i think HHH has maybe one more title run in him too which i'd love to see. But right now WWE is short of people who can carry the championship. That has to change and change quick.

We need a really good young heel and i think Mr Kennedy might be it.

[Hammy]

Enough with all this World Title talk....on to more important things.? Last night on RAW Miz teamed with Nitro in the Battle Royal.....

....Miz, Nitro, Melina....MNM....Hoo-Rah!

[Gnrfan]

Enough with all this World Title talk....on to more important things.? Last night on RAW Miz teamed with Nitro in the Battle Royal.....

....Miz, Nitro, Melina....MNM....Hoo-Rah!

Haha

I dont care who the teams are as long as there are teams . . . i want a tag division and another belt in ECW

[Gnrfan]

poor hbk

[Axl4Life]

The Wrestling Observer's Dave Meltzer appeared on the Live Audio Wrestling radio show on Sunday night after WrestleMania and he said that Shawn Michaels was extremely upset and unhappy with his match against John Cena. When he got backstage, he was screaming about how terrible he thought it was.

After the match had concluded, there was a spot where HBK abruptly walked away from a Cena handshake attempt which was not scripted, as they were supposed to shake hands. Michaels was red hot at Cena for not selling his leg that he spent the first few minutes of the match working on. Also, several of the agents were unhappy with Cena for that as well. In fact, you could see during the match that HBK got in Cena's face and started cutting a shoot promo on him, which is why the audio went out for a few seconds and was replaced with crowd noise.

Haha, this is what all us HBKfans/Cena Haters were talking about. About not selling the leg. Even the agents were pissed. Maybe they will finally realise Cena's worthless....well...maybe not. 

Even a born again christian can't stand cena. 

[Gnrfan]

The Wrestling Observer's Dave Meltzer appeared on the Live Audio Wrestling radio show on Sunday night after WrestleMania and he said that Shawn Michaels was extremely upset and unhappy with his match against John Cena. When he got backstage, he was screaming about how terrible he thought it was.

After the match had concluded, there was a spot where HBK abruptly walked away from a Cena handshake attempt which was not scripted, as they were supposed to shake hands. Michaels was red hot at Cena for not selling his leg that he spent the first few minutes of the match working on. Also, several of the agents were unhappy with Cena for that as well. In fact, you could see during the match that HBK got in Cena's face and started cutting a shoot promo on him, which is why the audio went out for a few seconds and was replaced with crowd noise.

Haha, this is what all us HBKfans/Cena Haters were talking about. About not selling the leg. Even the agents were pissed. Maybe they will finally realise Cena's worthless....well...maybe not.?

Even a born again christian can't stand cena.?

Cena sold the leg really well for like 7 or 8 mins then seemed to stop.

Maybe his leg didn't hurt as much as the STFU.

I'm glad HBK didn't like the match (it shows honesty and guts to admit it) it will tell all those HBK bummers that the match was not a Wrestlemania classic like i've heard so many say.

Personally i though the match was a 7 out of 10 but no better.

[axl_rose_700]

The Cena - HBK match was very good but not near a classic, Batista - Taker was much better

[Axl4Life]

The Wrestling Observer's Dave Meltzer appeared on the Live Audio Wrestling radio show on Sunday night after WrestleMania and he said that Shawn Michaels was extremely upset and unhappy with his match against John Cena. When he got backstage, he was screaming about how terrible he thought it was.

After the match had concluded, there was a spot where HBK abruptly walked away from a Cena handshake attempt which was not scripted, as they were supposed to shake hands. Michaels was red hot at Cena for not selling his leg that he spent the first few minutes of the match working on. Also, several of the agents were unhappy with Cena for that as well. In fact, you could see during the match that HBK got in Cena's face and started cutting a shoot promo on him, which is why the audio went out for a few seconds and was replaced with crowd noise.

Haha, this is what all us HBKfans/Cena Haters were talking about. About not selling the leg. Even the agents were pissed. Maybe they will finally realise Cena's worthless....well...maybe not. 

Even a born again christian can't stand cena. 

Cena sold the leg really well for like 7 or 8 mins then seemed to stop.

Maybe his leg didn't hurt as much as the STFU.

I'm glad HBK didn't like the match (it shows honesty and guts to admit it) it will tell all those HBK bummers that the match was not a Wrestlemania classic like i've heard so many say.

Personally i though the match was a 7 out of 10 but no better.

Yeah, Cena oversold the leg, then when momentum came in his favour, he acted as if there was nothing wrong with him.

Changing the subject, a superstar who I thinks deserves better, is one Matt Hardy. Whats your thoughts on this guys?