Wrestling...thats right, Wrestling!

[the dirt]

Angle often has trouble with playing his role properly.

[Jim]

In one on one interviews though, he pulls it off as good as anybody in the business.

I think that when he has to freestyle on the subject of something really fucking dumb, like saying that Rey deserves his place at wrestlemania, that he has trouble

[Hammy]

Angle is a medicore face.  When you think of his great moments you think of his heel times.  Best face moment of his i remember was when he had the milk truck.  As a heel he can play the goofy role so well but also he can be the serious i'll snap you're friggin' ankle heel to.  As a face he loses his edge.  Others do as well.  HBK is a poor face these days, as a heel he was awesome but his promo's seem to of lost that inner aggression and drive he once had.  Then you have Orton when they made him face that stunk so badly, he's great to hate but awful as a face.  I mean the main problem is his character is so arrogant and cocky it irritates the hell out of people and they boo him.  When they turned him face he was still arrogant and cocky.  He's also someone who's been a victim of poor writing, he has had some awful promo's in the last year or so, they've just been repetative, dull and to long.  It's a shame because he's one of those guys who when he's on the ball he's on.  Like this week for instance, it was the first time in a while i have seen a glimpse of what the future of this business should be like.  His role in the main event was great (as well as his earlier interview work.....)  the way he was cheering on Rey and then just as the little guy was crawling to the corner he slip out of the way to adjust his need pad.  So smooth, calm, collected and old school heel like.  And the ending should he had all the heel factors required of a great heel.  He was sneaky, cowardly and intelligent.  He really came over well.  His in-ring work when put with the right people is great to.  Back on RAW during his fantastic IC Title run he had some wonderful matches with Edge & Mick Foley as well as one with Rob Van Dam on RAW where he nailed him with a sick DDT,  he was fantastic with that belt and the best IC Champ of at least the past 5 years.

That feels better now i've gone on my Orton rant....

...here's the dude in action....



and fucking up the RKO

[Jim]

I think Orton's face turn didn't work because they tried to go it overnight. Well, that and bad writing. But quick turns only work if it's from a face to a heel...the other way round is very rarely succesful. Angle is the acception, but he was verging on face when he was a heel anyway, so that doesn't really count.

The way I see Orton going, if they're going to have any sense about it, would be in much the same way as the Rock. Orton right now reminds me a lot of the Nation's Rocky Maivia, both with the cockiness and the fact that they're not too different in the ring. I think that Orton needs a good heel run, which he's getting, without any off colour stuff like the Eddie thing...If the cockiness is done just right, they can eventually use it to his advantage as a face. Just keep the same character, but slowly ease out his feuds with faces; direct his cockiness to someone like a heel Mark Henry or HHH, and I'm sure that he would get over with the crowd big time.

[Evolution]

The thing about Randy going face was how stupid he was made to look against Hunter. He wan the belt, then lost it before fans could accept him, in the most screwjob fashion ever, then lost the right to challenge for the belt, then became a carbon copy Rock character for a short spell and the fans just didn't buy it.


Only now is he recovering from that I think.



I hate it when a good character goes face and changes the parts that made them cool for fans to cheer in the face place. Eg. John Cena's late 2003 change.

[Jim]

There was a time that you liked John Cena?

...

[Evolution]

His character in 2003 when it just came to the surface was pretty funny, plus his opponents that in year in Benoit, Angle, Guerrero etc. did a fine job of making him look like a competant wrestler.

[Jim]

Well, to be honest, I didn't watch wrestling much back then.

And, to be even more honest, he was one of the reasons!

I had grown up loving wrestling, but from about early-ish 2002 to Wrestlemania 20, I just couldn't watch it.

[Hammy]

I think Orton's face turn didn't work because they tried to go it overnight. Well, that and bad writing. But quick turns only work if it's from a face to a heel...the other way round is very rarely succesful. Angle is the acception, but he was verging on face when he was a heel anyway, so that doesn't really count.

Yeah it was quite stupid. ?Obviously face to heel normally works quickly because you have that shocking scenario....

HHH turning on D-X
HBK turning on Hogan
Albert turning on Scotty 2 Hotty.........that no good hairy mofo!

As Evolution said he was made him look stupid against HHH. ?But the face turn was all wrong, he was still the cocky arrogant heel the next night and we're supposed to accept him as a face a week later just because his buddies turned on him for being a cocky prick and not doing what he was told, who's the face here again?

The main problem is Chris Benoit was a failure as champion. ?Great as the guy is in the ring as the leader of the pack he wasn't drawing in the fans. ?The original plan though was to drag out HHH/Orton through 'til Wrestlemania, hell his face turn was at least meant to be 3 months after when it actually happened, but because of falling ratings they decided to work on the shock factor and go for the quick fix idea and crap months worth of storyline material into a quarter of the time. ?Don't you just love the intelligent creative team.

The way I see Orton going, if they're going to have any sense about it, would be in much the same way as the Rock. Orton right now reminds me a lot of the Nation's Rocky Maivia, both with the cockiness and the fact that they're not too different in the ring.

Yeah. ?When i was at university i always brought wrestling tapes from home so i could keep uptodate. ?One of my friends there had not seen it in a few years (He was another 'Attitude' child...) and he hated Orton, after hearing him deliver a promo his response was 'He's just trying to be like The Rock....'. ?My mate wasn't keen at all he wanted 'the real thing', but he like you and me and many others have seen the likeness, he's got that cockiness. ?He definately doesn't have mike skills in The Rock's league but very few do, but he is a much better wrestler than The Rock. ?Dwayne was never that special in the ring he was just lucky to work with a lot of good guys and over time learnt how to mask his weaknesses.

[Jim]

I think that, after how big The Rock was, any cocky heel is going to get compared to him eventually. But the thing with Orton is that there are actually parts of his cockiness that are better than the Rock. One of his obvious weaknesses is in getting the crowd pumped (using Eddie doesn't count...). HHH can do it, he was great with Cena the other week. Orton can tear somebody to pieces all right, but he doesn't seem that into the crowd when he is doing it. It's as if he's practiced what he's going to do (to perfection, I may add), but then does little more. He doesn't really feed off the crowd very much.

Speaking of HHH, he definatly needs a face-heel run. It always happens when he comes back, he's the bad guy that gets the huge pops. But then they do something stupid like have him kick Ric Flair's arse because he needs to feud with the T-shirt seller, some fool like Mr. Cena. It's annoying, boring and really cheap. While the shock heel turn is good now and again, it isn't the only way of doing it! Not for very long, just for say a couple of months. But I guess what we've got know is the closest we're going to get...

Oh yeah, Orton. I think that one of the ways in which he does beyond past even the Rock is in his body language. Sure, the Rock's cocky (probably the most times I have ever used that word in one day. Word -> Synonyms?) act was great in his promos, but while it was still good around the ring, I can't help but feeling like Orton is slightly better. Well, actually, as a heel it is much better. You already mentioned him yesterday, he was great! I do think that he isn't a lost cause on the mic, as far as being the best in the industry goes (we all know he's pretty damn good anyway), unlike someone like Benoit or Rob Van Dam. When Orton gets to his best, I'm pretty confident that his promos will easily be up there with the best of them.

[the dirt]

I just turned on SNME..

They're wrestling in fog now? What is that shit?

[Hammy]

I just turned on SNME..

They're wrestling in fog now? What is that shit?

Your joking, right?

Well if not, it's the fog from the opening fireworks/pyro......

[Evolution]

Fuck I forgot it's on 



Lucky for Sky Plus!

[the dirt]

It was the pyro, couldn't have been anything else. I'm talking a lot, though. It lasted about 20 minutes before it dispersed. Not exactly the best way to open a show when it comes to the casual viewer.

Maybe it was a smoke bomb

[D]

Poppa Pump still has the greatest body in wrestling history, I love him on TNA, his promo tonight was hysterical!


Saturday Night's Main Event was awesome!

Great Street fight between Shane O Mac and HBK.

[Hammy]

Saturday Night's Main Event was awesome!

It was, entertaining show and it did the one important thing that was needed.....


.....did a damn good job of building up Wrestlemania.

The show started and ended with strong matches and had some entertaining stuff in between Austin was fairly funny, 'Taker appearing always gets the crowd pumped, it was good to see a slightly more brutal Foley return although i'd still enjoy it more if he came back as Cactus Jack.

Booker T & Sharmell running down the corridor away from Boogeyman, that was classic stuff, these 2 are an awesome pair.....

....Booker T for World Champ!


....Suckaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!


Edit: And Mickie James Rules!  Pet Coon Crazy!  Yeah Baby!  JR Called It

[jameslofton29]

Saturday Night's Main Event was awesome!

It was, entertaining show and it did the one important thing that was needed.....


.....did a damn good job of building up Wrestlemania.

I didnt watch it, but at least they are using the event to hype up the big PPVs. Thats how they used to do it.


Off Topic: Where in the hell is Rob? I havent seen him in ages! Did he tell you guys he would be gone awhile? Or is he one of the people that just disappears into thin air? I hate when people here do that. It makes you think they died or something. Or did he just change his name here? Thats just as bad as disappearing.

[Hammy]

Off Topic: Where in the hell is Rob? I havent seen him in ages! Did he tell you guys he would be gone awhile? Or is he one of the people that just disappears into thin air? I hate when people here do that. It makes you think they died or something. Or did he just change his name here? Thats just as bad as disappearing.

I'm here dude, i changed my name to Stoned....

....as for Stoned, he just vanished into thin air....bastard!

[Jim]

On SNME, meh. I mean, it wasn't bad, I just can't help but feel that it could have been better. The tag team finished far too early. Not in length, more where it was going...I was expecting a few more special moves...A few more near falls. But it was all right. Quite a shock that the tag match was first though.

JBL also proved that he is definatly still the best heel on the mic when it comes to ripping somebody (like the crowd...), and I would fucking love to see last years One Night Stand again just for him! The guy was fucking hillarious, and the only thing that made the WWE invasion bit worthwhile.

Austin and JBL was great last night, and while Austin is still nowhere near as good on the mic as he once was, he was a lot better than the last few times that he was come back. Recently he's just seemed confused. Even though it was an awful time for Wrestling, Austin was at his best on the mic during the WCW / ECW thing, when he was with Stephanie and co... When the whole 'what' thing first started. He was so fucking funny back then. But he needs to decide whether to play on the 'what' thing or just ditch it next time he comes back... It's only funny when he's using it the whole time during a segmant, otherwise it's just a bit pointless and annoying. That said, it wasn't too bad last night.

The best thing about 'what' a few years (which, at the time, the crowd went way over board with, so much so that it was ridiculous) was when they were doing it to Kurt Angle! As I say, I don't find Wrestling that funny very often, but that. That was priceless!

I say JBL needs more mic time though! More cocky (...) mic time! I'm definatly going to be rooting for him at Wrestlemania.

The thing is though, I can definatly see WWE doing an Eddie & Benoit thing again, but this time with Rey, so Rey has the World Title, but Benoit still has something to hold when he, Chavo and whoever else invade the ring at the end of the show...

[Hammy]

The best thing about 'what' a few years (which, at the time, the crowd went way over board with, so much so that it was ridiculous)

It drove me insane.  At first it was great but then fans would do it during every promo, no matter who was involved, week after week it went on for ages even when Austin was absent for months.....

The thing is though, I can definatly see WWE doing an Eddie & Benoit thing again, but this time with Rey, so Rey has the World Title, but Benoit still has something to hold when he, Chavo and whoever else invade the ring at the end of the show...

Word is Cena/HHH will close the show.  Maybe Mysterio & Cena will embrace at the end