Wrestling...thats right, Wrestling!

[Izzy]

According to Wikipedia, the only people left from the WCW buy-out are: Arn Anderson, Charles Robinson, Chavo Guerrero, Gregory Helms and Nick Patrick.

People who have been fired then rehired are: Chuck Palumbo and Shannon Moore.

Don't u perhaps get the impression that Vince wanted nothing more than to crush everyone that dared to oppose him?

[Evolution]

According to Wikipedia, the only people left from the WCW buy-out are: Arn Anderson, Charles Robinson, Chavo Guerrero, Gregory Helms and Nick Patrick.

People who have been fired then rehired are: Chuck Palumbo and Shannon Moore.

Don't u perhaps get the impression that Vince wanted nothing more than to crush everyone that dared to oppose him?

Pretty much. You'd think a businessman would know the value of a well-booked, competitive feud.

[Sober_times]

According to Wikipedia, the only people left from the WCW buy-out are: Arn Anderson, Charles Robinson, Chavo Guerrero, Gregory Helms and Nick Patrick.

People who have been fired then rehired are: Chuck Palumbo and Shannon Moore.

Don't u perhaps get the impression that Vince wanted nothing more than to crush everyone that dared to oppose him?

Pretty much. You'd think a businessman would know the value of a well-booked, competitive feud.

Ya but at the time the talent that was on wcw wasnt that great. The show itself had become shit and the talent level/match level had become very poor on an overall basis.

The guys that brought wcw to the top during the monday night wars were not young talent besides the crusierwieghts. Most of the talent at top billing were hogan, nash, hall, savage, sting, and by that time Goldbergs popularity had dropped and ddp popularity had dropped as well. Scott Stiener had become shit, booker t was an interesting talent that wwe used for awhile.

Its just by the time wwe had gotten wcw the talent level was poor and there was no main guy that they got that could have moved into a top spot on the wwe roster immediatly even if vince wasnt out to prove that wwe was better.  But this was awhile ago so my memory could be cloudy but thats just how i'm remembering it right now.

[Evolution]

You make a good point, but surely that begs the same question. Why didn't Vince attempted buy-outs of the Time Warner contracts of Hall, Nash, Hogan, Steiner, Goldberg sooner, or at least wait for them to expire? Why did he hotshot the angle with the talent he had? If he had those guys along with Eric Bischoff that's a money feud.

[Mr Cowbell ?]

You make a good point, but surely that begs the same question. Why didn't Vince attempted buy-outs of the Time Warner contracts of Hall, Nash, Hogan, Steiner, Goldberg sooner, or at least wait for them to expire? Why did he hotshot the angle with the talent he had? If he had those guys along with Eric Bischoff that's a money feud.

Why attempt a buyout when WWE was the only thing going on in wrestling.  Why spend millions buying out overpaid contracts, when you can wait for them to expire and sign them alot cheaper

[Sober_times]

You make a good point, but surely that begs the same question. Why didn't Vince attempted buy-outs of the Time Warner contracts of Hall, Nash, Hogan, Steiner, Goldberg sooner, or at least wait for them to expire? Why did he hotshot the angle with the talent he had? If he had those guys along with Eric Bischoff that's a money feud.

Because the nwo angle and hogan, hall, nash, stiener and even goldberg to a lesser extent, had all gotten stale within wcw. They were not the money drawers they once were at that time. So they were not worth the money to take a chance on them. Vince was able to buy wcw because it sucked at the time. If hogan, nash, steiner, hall, and goldberg were still top draws wcw would have never gotten so bad. Plus when he finally did bring those guys over they didnt do much for or in wwe.


On another note regarding raw, why is it the past few raws they were building up a regal/kennedy fued yet cena is the one that comes out and basiclly schools regal at the begining of raw? (I missed the end so have no idea if they worked him in later) I understand cena is a top draw but why build the last few weeks than have cena come out and do what kennedy could have done better? Incase you didnt already know i really like kennedy, he can do very good promos when given the opportunity. If they pushed him as a face the crowd would eat it up.  His energy, mic skills, and presence remind of the greats during the attitude era.

[GNRreunioneventually]

i don't like that new douche bag that calls the matches with Taz wheres joey stiles?

[Evolution]

You make a good point, but surely that begs the same question. Why didn't Vince attempted buy-outs of the Time Warner contracts of Hall, Nash, Hogan, Steiner, Goldberg sooner, or at least wait for them to expire? Why did he hotshot the angle with the talent he had? If he had those guys along with Eric Bischoff that's a money feud.

Why attempt a buyout when WWE was the only thing going on in wrestling.  Why spend millions buying out overpaid contracts, when you can wait for them to expire and sign them alot cheaper

Because it would have a powerful effect if they had to hotshot the angle the way they did. The buyrates would pay for their contracts and then some.

You make a good point, but surely that begs the same question. Why didn't Vince attempted buy-outs of the Time Warner contracts of Hall, Nash, Hogan, Steiner, Goldberg sooner, or at least wait for them to expire? Why did he hotshot the angle with the talent he had? If he had those guys along with Eric Bischoff that's a money feud.

Because the nwo angle and hogan, hall, nash, stiener and even goldberg to a lesser extent, had all gotten stale within wcw. They were not the money drawers they once were at that time. So they were not worth the money to take a chance on them. Vince was able to buy wcw because it sucked at the time. If hogan, nash, steiner, hall, and goldberg were still top draws wcw would have never gotten so bad. Plus when he finally did bring those guys over they didnt do much for or in wwe.

Imagine all those guys re/debuting at the same time. That would have been huge. Bringing them all back into the WWF would give them new opponents and perhaps freshen up their act also.

i don't like that new douche bag that calls the matches with Taz wheres joey stiles?

Styles is off directing the WWE website now.

[pilferk]

According to Wikipedia, the only people left from the WCW buy-out are: Arn Anderson, Charles Robinson, Chavo Guerrero, Gregory Helms and Nick Patrick.

People who have been fired then rehired are: Chuck Palumbo and Shannon Moore.

Don't u perhaps get the impression that Vince wanted nothing more than to crush everyone that dared to oppose him?

That was sort of where I was going, too.

Thanks for those providing lists!! 

Arn is not really "in ring"...I wouldn't count him.  Ditto on the refs.

Chavo and Mysterio would be two I would count...I'd forgotten about them.

[pilferk]

Because the nwo angle and hogan, hall, nash, stiener and even goldberg to a lesser extent, had all gotten stale within wcw. They were not the money drawers they once were at that time. So they were not worth the money to take a chance on them. Vince was able to buy wcw because it sucked at the time. If hogan, nash, steiner, hall, and goldberg were still top draws wcw would have never gotten so bad. Plus when he finally did bring those guys over they didnt do much for or in wwe.

WCW's issue wasn't talent...at least not at the time it was bought out.  There was a nice balance of up and coming talent combined with the established vets. It was the booking.  It sucked.  It lacked direction.  It was boring and went no where.  Essentially (and I know I'll take some heat on this one) it largely resemebles SOME of the booking WWE has done since then, especially when looking at Smackdown and ECW.  The WCW talent roster had paid some of the price for that in not being quite as high profile as it once was.  But you get around that with smart booking.  Largely, Vince REFUSED to book WCW as a serious threat.  Then, they went out and got ECW...and refused to book the COMBINED talent as a serious threat to the WWE talent.

Those guys "didn't do much" (with the exception of Hogan) because they weren't booked to do much.  The angles they booked SUCKED.  And the Buff Bagwell/Booker T crapfest that "introduced" WCW to the WWE fans didn't help either....and that match was actually BOOKED to play out the mostly the way it did.  Granted, Buff got "lost", too....but it was booked as a "slow" match by the reports I've read.

Vince booked WCW to look bush league.  Plain and simple.  There's ONE thing about Vince that never seems to change: His ego.  Hey..given how successful he's  been, he's somewhat entitled to it.  But the fact remains: Vice lets his ego book, then his dick, and finally his brain.  It's not a great place to be in the hierarchy, IMHO.

[Izzy]

Never watched WCW, but was it really worse at the end than WWE matches are now?

[Sober_times]

Never watched WCW, but was it really worse at the end than WWE matches are now?

Yes. WCW did manage to put on a good last show and wwe was nice enough to give the guys a last show. I will always remember that flair vs sting match on the last nitro. However leading up to the buy-out wcw was very hard to watch. 

[pilferk]

Never watched WCW, but was it really worse at the end than WWE matches are now?

To be completely honest.....yeah, it was.  At least it was worse than RAW is right now.   I'm not sure it was worse than Smackdown and ECW, right now.  Maybe...but it was close.

The matches weren't awful, actually.  At least, they weren't when they had a finish that made sense.  In other words, the talent was pretty good.  The booking, as I mentioned, was atrocious.  Downright unwatchably stinky.  I think they REALLY turned the corner to "god awful" when they brought Ultimate Warrior back to feud with Hogan.  Yeeeeeeee GODS was that angle bad.  And it only got worse from there....and the only real successes they had seemed to be accidental (Ex: The West Texas Rednecks).

It was like watching a train wreck and a plane crash all happen together, at the same time.  It was hard to watch, but you just couldn't look away.

WWE, right now, is just bad (IMHO).  It's not "Oh my god, it's so bad I have to watch to see if it can get any WORSE"..and that's what WCW became.

It's too bad because WWE really could have used the WCW brand to build up something had they done it right and put things in place the RIGHT way.  Kept the feud going hot and all that.  There were a ton of ways to do it right....and they didn't do any of them.  I REALLY think Vince bought WCW to kill it.  I really believe that, now.  At the time, I actually thought that maybe, this once, Vince would put the ego aside and do what would be best ($$ wise) for his business.   He didn't.  He pissed on WCW and ECW...and then brought back ECW so he could rape it, pillage it, and defecate on it some more.  That's Vinnie Mac for ya, I guess.  Genius and Ego-maniac, all rolled into one.

[pilferk]

Yes. WCW did manage to put on a good last show and wwe was nice enough to give the guys a last show. I will always remember that flair vs sting match on the last nitro. However leading up to the buy-out wcw was very hard to watch. 

Truthfully, there was no more fitting way to end that chapter of WCW....and the end of the "real" WCW era...than that match.  I'd been watching those guys since the 80's...when Magnum TA, Flair, Sting, Dusty Rhodes and Nikita Koloff were the big draws for the NWA on TBS's World Champioinship Wresting (on Saturday nights, 6:05 to 8:05!).  Flair and Sting, through all the comings and goings, were the flagships.  There were others who, at times, were bigger (Hogan, Goldberg, DDP, Steamboat, Garvin,  the NWO as a whole....), but Flair and Sting were what I considered the ultimate poster boys for that federation.

Man, I miss WCW.......I'd even take the bad at the end over being stuck with WWE as the 800lb gorilla.

[Izzy]

How did WCW go from the premier wrestling show to a joke? - i suppose i could ask the same about WWE.....

[pilferk]

How did WCW go from the premier wrestling show to a joke? - i suppose i could ask the same about WWE.....

Oh god that's a long story.

The short version:

They really hit their stride with Hogan, and then the NWO.  That was their peak....that one REALLY good idea is what helped propel them past WWE.

WCW did three BIG things wrong.  They paid out big money, long term contracts to lure people away from WWE (which sounds great, but put them in a tough fiscal position).  They rode the NWO angle into the ground, beat it to death, and then rode it some more.  And finally they let the inmates run the asylum.  A dangerous combination...

When the booking went south, they started bleeding money.  Part of the problem with the booking was that the talent all had things like "creative control" clauses, or they all played politics with the leadership (most of the time, that was Eric Bischoff..but not the whole time) to get what they wanted.  The other part was just that the bookers sucked...and they went through a LOT of them.  Each one seemed worse than the last.....

When the booking crapped out.....and the buy rates dropped....it got really hard to pay the bills.  And WCW was part of AOL/Time Warner.  They weren't about to stand around and watch WCW bleed money. They weren't going to invest time and money to turn it around, because they didn't really know what to do with it anyway.  It had been a Ted Turner "pet project" that they got when buying Turner.  So they sold it for a bargain basement price to WWE, basically in a fire sale.

[Izzy]

Judgement Day looming fast

This will be the first PPV in ages I won't be ordering

Backlash was lazy - but this seems worse

Edge vs Taker...again???

On positive news - I thought TNA Sacrifice was superb...hell I think TNA is superb

...fair enought it lacks WWE's polish but the matches are always better than even the best WWE matches, the wrestling 'ability' the majority of the card has dwarfes anything WWE can put together

imagine WWE's presentaion and TNA quality matches on one show.....

[D]

Definitely agree Izzy. TNA wrestling wise destroys WWE

Whats missing from WWE is the great mid card guys. Everyone is either an upper mid card or really shitty


Cody Rhodes is soooooo Creepy looking. anyone else notice that? Guy makes my skin crawl when I see him.

[slash666]

I thought TNA Sacrifice was superb...hell I think TNA is superb

oh please, having a womens match where its a battle royal-ladder match to shave someones head is not superb its retarded booking. Whats the deal with having one of the most over faces have their hair shaved? Sympathy maybe but that will wear off in afew weeks and then where is she...still shaved. It really does show how idiotic TNA's booking is & how rubbish they are at being "original" with creating match stipulations (which is usually for every match). Fair enough their wrestling is usually to a better standard but a mixture of spotfests & pointless run-ins or wasted turns usually ruin what is often good in TNA. Did you not hear the MASS of "Fire Russo" chants?

[Evolution]

The story on the Internet goes that the reason they went with Roxxi is because she was the only one who really seemed up for the cut. Apparantely the purple hair dye was wrecking her hair anyway. On the plus side she still looks pretty good and they've changed her attire for more of a Sinead O'Connor/Punk Rock sort of look. Hopefully TNA gives her a decent push on the back of it.