The American Dream

[sandman]

maybe you should've.

very few scottish people left for america due to poverty. they were kicked off their land in the highland clearances and the tatty famine didn't help either.

my grandmother left her life in scotland in 1920 at the age of 13. she boarded a boat bound for america by herself to start a life in america and chase "the american dream" - the opportunity for a better life.

poverty was one of the main reasons many people in scotland came to america. there was no hope in many parts of scotland and ireland.

[2NaFish]

Over one third of the population of scotland left during the highland clearances of the 18th century. Scotland saw an increase in population, mainly due to immigrant workers, in the post war period.

To say there was no hope in scotland of the time shows your complete lack of knowledge of the subject.

[sandman]

Over one third of the population of scotland left during the highland clearances of the 18th century. Scotland saw an increase in population, mainly due to immigrant workers, in the post war period.

To say there was no hope in scotland of the time shows your complete lack of knowledge of the subject.

talk to your relatives about how much hope they had during the great war. 

[2NaFish]

And how many 100 year old scottish people have you spoken to? Don't tell me about my country's history.

[mikegiuliana]

i forked over my 4 grand with a money order.... Fuck I don't even own a credit card..

[sandman]

And how many 100 year old scottish people have you spoken to? Don't tell me about my country's history.

obviously, you do not have a very good understanding of the situation in scotland during and after the great war. you should read up on it....unbelievable shit.

[Axls Locomotive]

And how many 100 year old scottish people have you spoken to? Don't tell me about my country's history.

obviously, you do not have a very good understanding of the situation in scotland during and after the great war. you should read up on it....unbelievable shit.

as much as there was a recession after the first world war, the unemployment rate was only still about 10-12% the first half of the 1920's in Scotland, not exactly disastrous...if you had said the 1930's it would have been different

[sandman]

And how many 100 year old scottish people have you spoken to? Don't tell me about my country's history.

obviously, you do not have a very good understanding of the situation in scotland during and after the great war. you should read up on it....unbelievable shit.

as much as there was a recession after the first world war, the unemployment rate was only still about 10-12% the first half of the 1920's in Scotland, not exactly disastrous...if you had said the 1930's it would have been different

so you think all those jobs were paying enough to keep people out of poverty. statistics can be misleading. come on, you know that.

[Axls Locomotive]

so you think all those jobs were paying enough to keep people out of poverty. statistics can be misleading. come on, you know that.

it also depends on where you lived at the time

since Glasgow was still the greatest shipbuilding city in the world in the 1920's, and was a leader in coal, steel and other constructive industries at that time and there were more railway lines than there are today, unemployment was lower in Glasgow than the whole of Scotland...if you were in Aberdeen or the Highlands then yea it would have been far harder to live but that was a result of war...tell me something, how i can have respect for people who moved away from the effects of 4 years of war? and i mean from any European country, not just the UK...the American Dream is more about greed than anything else..in fact its just another bullshit phrase

[GnRNightrain]

the American Dream is more about greed than anything else..in fact its just another bullshit phrase

I disagree.  I think many countries back then were set up in somewhat of a cast system where it was impossible to achieve anything you wanted and create a better life for your children.  America offered the opportunity to break that system and create a better life for your children.  Certainly today there are many countries like this, however, I still see the american dream everyday.  There are so many Mexicans and Asians that come over here, their parents work in a mini-mart, pick vegtables etc, then their kids end up going to stanford or Berekely and become doctors, lawyers, politicians.  There is not too many places that can still happen.  Look at that commencement speech I posted a few days ago.  The creator of apple was someone that was adopted by parents who never went to college and he himself dropped out of school.  For the most part, if you work hard here you can make it.  Of course, capitalism isnt for everyone I guess.

[Doc Emmett Brown]

i always saw the american dream as a meritocracy; where you can get ahead if you work for it and are talented enough. the reality is pretty different. it's impossible that everyone gets rich; it simply doesnt work like that.

That's a great observation.  The Dream essentially counts on some people being lazy, dumb, and not willing to work to get ahead in life.  I wonder what would happen if everyone tried to be a self-made man or woman.

most importantly its a shared belief - even if people have a different view of what their dream is, most american still hold it in high regard. so its a useful tool for keeping the masses together. Anyone "bad" is trying to thwart the american dream, etc....

Yes, I do hold it in high regard.  In fact, it is one of the ways in which I distinguish America from the rigid 'Old World'.  I realize it is a naive assumption to truly believe in it, but I have worked hard to achieve my professional goals, and so far the Dream has worked for me.   Does that mean it could work for everyone?  I'm hesitant to give an answer.


As SLC said, the American Dream that is sold to you on tv is about buying, consuming, owning, and to do it with 0% APR, no money down, pay next year!   That's how the dream would be defined in the Devil's Dictionary.  But you dont have to believe in that version. 

At the other end of the spectrum is the American Dream presented in the classic movie 'Mr Smith Goes to Washington' with Jimmy Stewart setting the example for all of us.  His version of the dream has nothing to do with being materialistic, and is exactly about battling the greed and corruption that prevents other folks from achieving their aspirations.  Of course, buying into his Tinseltown version requires you to let go of all your cynicism, and I cant do that.

[SLCPUNK]

the American Dream is more about greed than anything else..in fact its just another bullshit phrase

Look at that commencement speech I posted a few days ago.? The creator of apple was someone that was adopted by parents who never went to college and he himself dropped out of school.? For the most part, if you work hard here you can make it.?

You are such a hypocrite. You post that speech, yet turn around and insult people who also did not finish college.

I agree that hard work, street smarts, and discipline can make you a success in this country. Many people don't want to do the work and find it below them to do certain things. That is why immigrants do so well here. They appreciate any job they can get their hands on and will work two jobs 7 days a week and not spend one dime on crap. They often pay in cash and value money much more than people who were born and raised here.

My uncle worked his ass off for 10 yrs before he took his first vacation. He started from nothing, and built a business worth millions which he sold off eventually. He "made it" by most people's standards. The biggest thing I saw with him, was that he was willing to get down and dirty and work, while others chose not to. His life was not easy for years, and eventually it paid off. He only took a class in trade school, then took a basic business class in college, then went out and worked his ass off.

[Axls Locomotive]

I disagree.  I think many countries back then were set up in somewhat of a cast system where it was impossible to achieve anything you wanted and create a better life for your children.  America offered the opportunity to break that system and create a better life for your children.

explain? caste system? divisions in society? like black and white? rich and poor,east and west, french and english, american indian and whiteman...no caste system in the USA?...how many successful Native Americans do you know of? how may people live in poverty with no chance of leaving it?...white man no get job, black man for job, white man more talented but company must meet quota...break the system? it certainly has

[SLCPUNK]

I disagree.? I think many countries back then were set up in somewhat of a cast system where it was impossible to achieve anything you wanted and create a better life for your children.? America offered the opportunity to break that system and create a better life for your children.

explain? caste system? divisions in society? like black and white? rich and poor,east and west, french and english, american indian and whiteman...no caste system in the USA?...how many successful Native Americans do you know of? how may people live in poverty with no chance of leaving it?...white man no get job, black man for job, white man more talented but company must meet quota...break the system? it certainly has

I'll predict a "They need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps" type of answer.

No caste system here sir...........