Europeans prefer China to the US?

[GnRNightrain]

That is exactly why the dispute continues, neither side is willing to say that they acted childish at all.? Im not saying that Europeans dont have a right to view the US less favorably than they did before.? Certainly there are reasons why they might do so.? However, I think it has gone a little too far when they prefer China to the US.? To me that is not looking at things rationally.? You must admit the results of that poll cant be based on an objective look at both countries, it is more based on the passion and division over this war.?

we have to say we acted childishly because we voted in a single poll that put China ahead of the USA? i think youve got plenty to feel childish about, freedom fries, boycott of foods, most of the major comedians making fun of the europeans in their high profile shows and more...and youre looking from an apology from us? you amuse me dude

My gosh Q, you keep posting things I did not say.  I said that freedom fries and boycotts were childish.  Furthermore, I never asked for an apology from anyone.  I think your looking for a dispute for me just have a dispute.  From the substance of your previous post I dont think we disagree on this issue that much. 

[Axls Locomotive]

My gosh Q, you keep posting things I did not say.  I said that freedom fries and boycotts were childish.  Furthermore, I never asked for an apology from anyone.  I think your looking for a dispute for me just have a dispute.  From the substance of your previous post I dont think we disagree on this issue that much. 

i was talking in general, my comments werent really aimed at you specifically

[SLCPUNK]

i think canada is a great place. i'll probably live there for a while after i finish university.

Can't go wrong with Canada.

Any group of people who wear socks with their sandals are ok with me!

Your just jelous because you can't take the strength of the beer?

huh?

[N.I.B]

You can't go wrong with Canadian beer 

[hyperionmax2003]

This is going to sound weird/stupid, but I think Europeans are favorable towards the Chineese because they fear them more.  My country (U.S.) hasn't been a... a threatining giant if we don't get our way country, like it was after WW2.  Everybody (except for the Soviets)  feared the U.S because of our nuclear weponary and appeased us the best they could. Now that the advantage of nuclear wepons are gone (since everybody has them), the biggest "threat" would be Chineese.  A billion people is alot of people, so nobody wants to anger them, so they are more...prefered to the chineese.

Oh, and please don't give me crap about

My country (U.S.) hasn't been a... a threatining giant if we don't get our way country, like it was after WW2

 
The war on terror is a completelty differnent idea. 

[SLCPUNK]

This is going to sound weird/stupid, but I think Europeans are favorable towards the Chineese because they fear them more.?


The war on terror is a completelty differnent idea.?

haha.

Yea, it couldn't be because people around the world dislike our "war on terror" in Iraq. They must be scared of China.... Wake up dude!

It's a "different" idea alright: Attack a country that did not attack you on 9-11.

[Rain]

Hatred towards the US ?

No.

The US is one of the youngest nations of the planet. They never had ennemies as a nation, yet.

No? ? and how do you call manifestations with nazi symbols into American flags? or the unfamous though "the 9/11 it's a good thing that happened in their face" by persons like jos? bov? (beauf) or? Bigard (beauf)?
Americans, you've to know that during the 9/11, some people were HAPPY it happens. and not only in gaza, kaboul, Teheran or any other "non-civilized" places where people live in a retarded middle-age erea, but in P?ris, berlin and many other Europeans cities.
Don't get me wrong, a large part of people here were against the 9/11, but some of them (and not a that slim minority) though it was just "a good thing". Some of them believed in people who wrote books and made interviews to say the 9/11 "didn't happen" (neo-negationism?), or if it happened, it was the American governement who sent the planes on the towers (??), and to finish, because the responsibles seem to always be the jews, some of them said it was a "zionnist conspiration" (Dieudonn?)

and that isn't called hatred?

Nesquick, you keep my hope alive.

You ain't serious are you ?

Nesquick has, most of the time, the most paranoid views on the french society. According to him we are doomed because 10 millions muslims live in France ... ( whereas there are not 10 millions at all ... 5 millions and just a minority actually goes to the mosquees). He just love to be afraid of something. And describing how the french reacted to 9/11 as he just did makes me sick ... because I was at work when it happened and we were all watching the news channel and most of us were just crying in disbelief. And at the time? 99.999 % were behind G W Bush ... the fall's begun w/ the idiotic comments like "you're with us or against us" bullshit ...

And for the chinese matter ... I still think europeans don't judge China and the USA on the same standards ... I'm waiting for more of my relation with my brother - a democratic country with the same values -? than the one with the neighbor accross the street that beats his wife - a communist dictatorship- ! But when my brother in my eyes doesn't comply with the values we share it's somewhat treason - while my neighbor remains the same ...
For me it just makes sense. Right now europeans are just pissed of.

[nesquick]

serious? I think he is because it's been a while since GnRnightrain and I agree on lots of things.

I spoke about Europe. I think there is a problem in Europe, it's not specific to France. Bush is as responsible as our Europeans governments of that situation. Bush is arrogant, our European governements just don't understand anything.

He just love to be afraid of something. And describing how the french reacted to 9/11 as he just did makes me sick ... because I was at work when it happened and we were all watching the news channel and most of us were just crying in disbelief

1) right. my brother was in Barbes in car, he saw people there having fun on the 9/11. I saw and heard myself young surbubs teenagers in the underground screaming how happy they seemed to be. Lots of them still see bin-laden as their hero.? paranoid or realistic?
2) you don't represent people I was refering to. Never ever. Don't take everything I say for yourself. You are not concerned.
3) right I like a lot beeing afraid of something. Sure. When I wake-up the morning I say "today I'd like to be afraid of something". It's a fantastic feeling. lovetobeafraidofsomething.com, coming soon.

the fall's begun w/ the idiotic comments like "you're with us or against us" bullshit ...

I agree on that point.

Take it easy?

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

I saw and heard myself young surbubs teenagers in the underground screaming how happy they seemed to be. Lots of them still see bin-laden as their hero.? paranoid or realistic?

yeah young suburbs teens, thats your source and reference. nice analysis of the french society.

[Rain]

serious? I think he is because it's been a while since GnRnightrain and I agree on lots of things.

I spoke about Europe. I think there is a problem in Europe, it's not specific to France. Bush is as responsible as our Europeans governments of that situation. Bush is arrogant, our European governements just don't understand anything.

He just love to be afraid of something. And describing how the french reacted to 9/11 as he just did makes me sick ... because I was at work when it happened and we were all watching the news channel and most of us were just crying in disbelief

1) right. my brother was in Barbes in car, he saw people there having fun on the 9/11. I saw and heard myself young surbubs teenagers in the underground screaming how happy they seemed to be. Lots of them still see bin-laden as their hero.? paranoid or realistic?
2) you don't represent people I was refering to. Never ever. Don't take everything I say for yourself. You are not concerned.
3) right I like a lot beeing afraid of something. Sure. When I wake-up the morning I say "today I'd like to be afraid of something". It's a fantastic feeling. lovetobeafraidofsomething.com, coming soon.

the fall's begun w/ the idiotic comments like "you're with us or against us" bullshit ...

I agree on that point.

Take it easy?

I'm taking it really easy nesquick ... sometimes you're just putting out clich?s that's what annoys me ! Of course we have our problems here ... 10 % unemployement rate ... racism ... suburbs teens ... put as WAT-EVER put suburbs teens don't represent the french society ... It's a problem here but it's not specific to France. There always be people that happy two planes crashed on the WTC ... it's not a french or arab speciality ... you'd be amazed of what I heard the last time I went to Brazil. Stupid people have no nationalities.

And I don't have a problem w/ you at all, it's just sometimes your radical views on the french society drive me crazy !

What I wanted to do in this thread is to explain to NT the result of the poll and why it's not so tragic not  talk once again about 9/11 and how young teens in the suburbs were delighted when 3500 people die.

[purplehaze1988]

its kinda funny how people see the government as a reflection of the population in general. i guess thats why so many people "hate" america. however, i doubt the majority of europeans could seriously support a communist regime, especially looking at the conflict in eastern europe last century.

its true though that the american culture is very different from one of europe. when i went to san fran a couple of years ago (the "least-american american city") it was really noticable how loud and yes, kind of annoying some of the people were, certainly worse than anything you'd encounter in manchester, uk (where i live), or anywhere else ive been (australia, singapore, bali, france, germany, italy, holland, hungary, spain etc).

i have several friends from hong kong whos parents have emigrated, but i doubt they represent china itself. their parents are strict and hard working, but they are extremely lazy. i doubt they would get away with that "back home".

and as to america being racist and china not, it is only because america welcomes so many cultures that there is conflict. china is not willing to accept other cultures, so the people cannot express racial hatred.

america has its faults, but id choose george bush over dictatorship any day

[N.I.B]

america has its faults, but id choose george bush over dictatorship any day

i get what your saying, but you'd rather support a power-hungry warlord than a dictator?

[2NaFish]

I'd go for a benevolant dictator over a democracy. People are idiots.

[N.I.B]

I'd go for a benevolant dictator over a democracy. People are idiots.

thats what im saying. id rather follow someone who cares for his country than some idiot who starts wars for no reason.

[hyperionmax2003]

Yea, it couldn't be because people around the world dislike our "war on terror" in Iraq. They must be scared of China....  Wake up dude!

It's a "different" idea alright: Attack a country that did not attack you on 9-11.

We attacked Afghanistan and Iraq because their "governments" supported the terrorists that planned the terrorists attacks of 9-11 (that statement relates more to Afghanistan).   We also attacked Iraq to free the Iraqi people (who if u dont believe were victimized by the Saddam regime, you're fucking crazy) and prevent/stop the production of weapons of mass destruction.

The Chineese are growing more and more powerful everyday.  How many countries have opposed China compared those who have went/spoke out against the U.S.? 

id rather follow someone who cares for his country

Sounds like my man George Bush.

[N.I.B]

id rather follow someone who cares for his country

Sounds like my man George Bush.

He cares only about Texas and the nice young people willing to die for oil profits

[Doc Emmett Brown]

Ted Kennedy, Howard Dean etc have achieved their goal, Iraq has turned into a quasi-Vietnam.

"There are not going to be any timetables. Why would you say to the enemy, you know, 'Here's a timetable; just go ahead and wait us out?'"
- PRESIDENT BUSH, on calls for a schedule to move troops out of Iraq.

If Iraq is turning into a quasi-Vietnam it's because someone refuses to set a timetable for exiting the country.  And that someone is not Howard Dean.  All your anti-Bush comments have me wondering who the Right is going to anoint as their new man now that the Prez is all washed up. 


Has Bush (or the people who think for him) given any thoughts to the Chinese bid for Unocal yet? It's not going to matter who wins the PR game with the Europeans (us or China) if China wins the Big Bucks game.

June 27, 2005
The Chinese Challenge
By PAUL KRUGMAN - New York Times

Fifteen years ago, when Japanese companies were busily buying up chunks of corporate America, I was one of those urging Americans not to panic. You might therefore expect me to offer similar soothing words now that the Chinese are doing the same thing. But the Chinese challenge - highlighted by the bids for Maytag and Unocal - looks a lot more serious than the Japanese challenge ever did.

There's nothing shocking per se about the fact that Chinese buyers are now seeking control over some American companies. After all, there's no natural law that says Americans will always be in charge. Power usually ends up in the hands of those who hold the purse strings. America, which imports far more than it exports, has been living for years on borrowed funds, and lately China has been buying many of our I.O.U.'s.

Until now, the Chinese have mainly invested in U.S. government bonds. But bonds yield neither a high rate of return nor control over how the money is spent. The only reason for China to acquire lots of U.S. bonds is for protection against currency speculators - and at this point China's reserves of dollars are so large that a speculative attack on the dollar looks far more likely than a speculative attack on the yuan.

So it was predictable that, sooner or later, the Chinese would stop buying so many dollar bonds. Either they would stop buying American I.O.U.'s altogether, causing a plunge in the dollar, or they would stop being satisfied with the role of passive financiers, and demand the power that comes with ownership. And we should be relieved that at least for now the Chinese aren't dumping their dollars; they're using them to buy American companies.

Yet there are two reasons that Chinese investment in America seems different from Japanese investment 15 years ago.

One difference is that, judging from early indications, the Chinese won't squander their money as badly as the Japanese did.

The Japanese, back in the day, tended to go for prestige investments - Rockefeller Center, movie studios - that transferred lots of money to the American sellers, but never generated much return for the buyers. The result was, in effect, a subsidy to the United States.

The Chinese seem shrewder than that. Although Maytag is a piece of American business history, it isn't a prestige buy for Haier, the Chinese appliance manufacturer. Instead, it's a reasonable way to acquire a brand name and a distribution network to serve Haier's growing manufacturing capability.

That doesn't mean that America will lose from the deal. Maytag's stockholders will gain, and the company will probably shed fewer American workers under Chinese ownership than it would have otherwise. Still, the deal won't be as one-sided as the deals with the Japanese often were.

The more important difference from Japan's investment is that China, unlike Japan, really does seem to be emerging as America's strategic rival and a competitor for scarce resources - which makes last week's other big Chinese offer more than just a business proposition.

The China National Offshore Oil Corporation, a company that is 70 percent owned by the Chinese government, is seeking to acquire control of Unocal, an energy company with global reach. In particular, Unocal has a history - oddly ignored in much reporting on the Chinese offer - of doing business with problematic regimes in difficult places, including the Burmese junta and the Taliban. One indication of Unocal's reach: Zalmay Khalilzad, who was U.S. ambassador to Afghanistan for 18 months and was just confirmed as ambassador to Iraq, was a Unocal consultant.

Unocal sounds, in other words, like exactly the kind of company the Chinese government might want to control if it envisions a sort of "great game" in which major economic powers scramble for access to far-flung oil and natural gas reserves. (Buying a company is a lot cheaper, in lives and money, than invading an oil-producing country.) So the Unocal story gains extra resonance from the latest surge in oil prices.

If it were up to me, I'd block the Chinese bid for Unocal. But it would be a lot easier to take that position if the United States weren't so dependent on China right now, not just to buy our I.O.U.'s, but to help us deal with North Korea now that our military is bogged down in Iraq.

[sandman]

this poll should have asked the question this way...

"if you had to choose to live in either america or china, which would it be?"

i think we all know the results would have been greatly different. 

[2NaFish]

this poll should have asked the question this way...

"if you had to choose to live in either america or china, which would it be?"

i think we all know the results would have been greatly different.

yes, but that would make the poll completely pointless.

[sandman]

this poll should have asked the question this way...

"if you had to choose to live in either america or china, which would it be?"

i think we all know the results would have been greatly different.

yes, but that would make the poll completely pointless.

why, because the results would not be negtive towards the U.S.?

i think the whole world already knows that europeans do not have a favorable view of america right now. so what did this poll actually tell us??? nothing.