Maybe Axl's absence is for the better...

[jabba2]

In 97 Motley Crew got alot of exposure on MTV. At least during daytime hours...i remember cuz i watched MTV alot in those days but stopped when TRL took MTV over. MTV was not biased at all towards metal during that time. Before 96 its possible they were biased but not for long after.

[POPmetal]

Generation Swine was not grunge friendly, but it was industrial friendly...which at the time it was released was pretty similar to being grunge friendly in '94.? The Corabi album is heavier than most Motley, but it definitely tries to bend a little to that era.? A true middle finger to the music industry would have been to release New Tatoo as the follow-up to Dr. Feelgood.? In The Dirt Nikki Sixx says that album should've been the follow up to Feelgood.? If you read The Dirt you'd realize how much the Crue were trying to sound like whatever the trend in rock was at the time...whether it be grunge or industrial.? But I do agree with you that its cool to have the critics hate GN'R.? It helps that us against the world mentality the band used to have.

Haven't read the dirt yet, but yeah, I see how they were trying to bend to that era. The problem with the 94 album was that they missed by a mile and inadvertently went against the flow anyway, which is still pretty cool Swine was very industrial friendly. Industrial was never a big fake fad like grunge though. It broke through as an accident. It was metal in new clothes and MTV never really liked it. Then NIN caught everyone's attention with the mud at their Woodstock performance and exploded. Before that MTV rarely played that type of music except at 2am in the morning.? But it remained mostly an underground scene except for the occasional NIN or Manson (if you even count him as industrial) album that went platinum.

[POPmetal]

In 97 Motley Crew got alot of exposure on MTV. At least during daytime hours...i remember cuz i watched MTV alot in those days but stopped when TRL took MTV over. MTV was not biased at all towards metal during that time. Before 96 its possible they were biased but not for long after.

Are you talking MTV USA here. Cuz you weren't watching the MTV I was watching. Unless you call 2 MTV News stories "a lot of exposure." I was all about the Generation Swine album at the time and I was calling radio stations and writing to MTV to play the Afraid video, but I still never saw it until they released it on DVD 2 years ago.

In 97, MTV was all Sublime, Third Eye Blind, Sugar Ray, Smash Mouth and rap. There was not a single metal song in heavy rotation. If you ask me, it actually got better with TRL. That song Larger Than Life had more of a guitar solo (even though it was censored out for the MTV video) than any "rock" song that was popular in the late 90s. And at least Britney Spears you can look at and some of her songs were catchy. Also, while I don't much care for rap metal, Korn and Limp Bitzkit were still a thousand times better than Dave Matthews and The Verve Pipe. That 97/98 period was arguably the worst in all of mainstream rock history. Though it looks like the present is trying to give it a run for its money with Coldplay and Keane and all that shit.

[Buddha_Master]

Is there a diference between Motley Crue and Poisen?

[Rob]

Is there a diference between Motley Crue and Poisen?

Yes, there is a big difference between Motley Crue and PoisOn.  Instead of me explaining all the differences I recommend you listen to both bands cause they're both very good.

[Buddha_Master]

HAHAHAHA what? Did you just say they are good??

PoisOn (so fuckin not sorry for spelling these fags name wrong) suck dude. Their songs were for young chicks, pure and simple. Man, the VH1 special on them was so spot on. Their songs suck. The epitomy of gay. But its your opinion, and you are entitled to it I guess (damn I hate having to saying politically correct things so I don't get myself in trouble (like if I called you a fag)).

Anyfuckinways, glam was the worst thing to happen to rock music. Thank god GNR broke free and put an end to that embarrassment (and thank God Metallica moved to San Fran to escape the glam fag scene).

[Neemo]

HAHAHAHA what? Did you just say they are good??

PoisOn (so fuckin not sorry for spelling these fags name wrong) suck dude. Their songs were for young chicks, pure and simple. Man, the VH1 special on them was so spot on. Their songs suck. The epitomy of gay. But its your opinion, and you are entitled to it I guess (damn I hate having to saying politically correct things so I don't get myself in trouble (like if I called you a fag)).

Anyfuckinways, glam was the worst thing to happen to rock music. Thank god GNR broke free and put an end to that embarrassment (and thank God Metallica moved to San Fran to escape the glam fag scene).

Whatever, the music back then kicked compared to today, at least the guitarists had some talent. GnR started as glam too, so WTF. I saw Poison a few years ago and they put on a really fucking good show, they have talent. Crue rules too although I have never seen them live.

[POPmetal]

HAHAHAHA what? Did you just say they are good??

PoisOn (so fuckin not sorry for spelling these fags name wrong) suck dude. Their songs were for young chicks, pure and simple. Man, the VH1 special on them was so spot on. Their songs suck. The epitomy of gay. But its your opinion, and you are entitled to it I guess (damn I hate having to saying politically correct things so I don't get myself in trouble (like if I called you a fag)).

Anyfuckinways, glam was the worst thing to happen to rock music. Thank god GNR broke free and put an end to that embarrassment (and thank God Metallica moved to San Fran to escape the glam fag scene).

Hahaha moving to San Fran to escape a "fag scene" ROFLMAO ?That's classic dude, you made my day

Now, I take it your original question was supposed to be a slam at at poison and motley. But you ended up only making an ass out of yourself because you demonstrated that you base your musical taste on stereotypes and not music. Only someone who has never listened to their albums would ask such a dumb question and it makes you no different than the morons who ask "what's the difference between GN'R and Motley Crue?" Perhaps the best thing about the glam metal scene was that all the major bands had their own thing going. There was some influence, but if you listened to the music you could never mistake Motley for GN'R for Poison. There is a world of difference between Shout At Teh Devil and Flesh & Blood. Only a phony who based his views on dumb VH1 shows and hasn't listened to the music would disagree.

[Buddha_Master]

So, have you seen Metallica's Some Kind Of Monster? That is EXACTLY why they left L.A. In hindsight, that is funny sounding.

But do you know what gay people in San Francisco call Glam Rockers? Faggots.

Dude, again I will bring up the VH1 special on PoisOn. The guitarist said he had all the right influences to be a great guitarist. But admitted that he was anything but. They didnt care about there music. They didnt care about making good music. It was 100% done to get chicks. Yea, that is usually the main reason to be in a rock band, but they literally had no musical integrety.

Crue wass certaintly leaps and bounds more talented musically, and actually believed in the music they were making. Far cry from PoisOn. I knew making the comparison between them and PoisOn would piss some people off. But as a GNR fan, it is my godgiven right to bash Crue and Cobain, and posers like PoisOn. But really dude, you can't honestly believe that PoisOn was a good band though right?

You know what the difference is?

You have Zepplin as the control group that is the very definition of talent, who poured talent and musicianship out of every pore.? You honestly going to have the balls and tell us that PoisOn has any talent whatsoever? Compare them to a real Rock band that has talent like the big Z. GNR had talent. Metallica has talent. Jimi Hendrix had talent. The original Black Sabbath had talent. PoisOn sucks dude, and personally its insulting for you to be making the claims you are so carelessly making.

I'd be careful if I were you.

*and to the other dude above, I already talked about GNR, who were blessed with the godgiven ability to break free from that glam scene, and kill it off. Any traces of Glam ended with Appetite. And Glam music was NOT better then music today, or anyday in the history of Rock. It remains and embarrasing dark time in Rock history. To go from Hendrix to Zepplin, to Glam is a disgrace.

[mikegiuliana]

man I grew up with glam rock, I loved cinderella, poison, motley crue(very uinderrated band), ratt winger wasp, quiet riot twisted sister whitesnake (coverdale rocks) bad english, damy yankees, trixter bon jovi, great white, white lion, europe, lita ford, def lepp, scorpions (well not really glam) Queensryche, etc etc etc.. That's me though I enjoyed the image and the catchy tunes n the guitar rock

[jameslofton29]

Mike, same with me. I loved those bands from late 80's/early 90's. Although I laughed when you mentioned Trixter. That was a great time to be alive. The music scene from that era will never be repeated again. Remember when several of those bands tried making comebacks in 94-96? The media ignored them and they fell flat on their faces. That was when I relized that the era of hair/glam bands, or what my Aunt likes to call "pussy bands", was really over.

[MikeB]

To me, Poison's music is so cheezy and fake .Reminds me when you have a fake instead of a real christmas tree, sure it's green but just not the real thing.

[jabba2]

Are you talking MTV USA here. Cuz you weren't watching the MTV I was watching. Unless you call 2 MTV News stories "a lot of exposure." I was all about the Generation Swine album at the time and I was calling radio stations and writing to MTV to play the Afraid video, but I still never saw it until they released it on DVD 2 years ago.

In 97, MTV was all Sublime, Third Eye Blind, Sugar Ray, Smash Mouth and rap. There was not a single metal song in heavy rotation. If you ask me, it actually got better with TRL. That song Larger Than Life had more of a guitar solo (even though it was censored out for the MTV video) than any "rock" song that was popular in the late 90s. And at least Britney Spears you can look at and some of her songs were catchy. Also, while I don't much care for rap metal, Korn and Limp Bitzkit were still a thousand times better than Dave Matthews and The Verve Pipe. That 97/98 period was arguably the worst in all of mainstream rock history. Though it looks like the present is trying to give it a run for its money with Coldplay and Keane and all that shit.

Just going by what i saw. And i saw Crue on MTV. I remember hearing some Generation Swine song, maybe not regular airplay, but MTV gave them publicity. If you wanted the Crue to perform at awards ceromonys, have regular video rotation etc.etc. maybe the demand wasnt there, i wasnt a Crue fan at the time but they were on MTV.

[POPmetal]

But do you know what gay people in San Francisco call Glam Rockers? Faggots.

Actually, a lot of gay people probably like glam rockers, especially the 70s glam rockers that were the roots of Poison, Hanoi Rocks, Motley, Guns N' Roses, and Def Leppard. There was a gay member on this board who said Axl had a following in the gay community because of his looks.

But really dude, you can't honestly believe that PoisOn was a good band though right??

They were never meant to be a Led Zeppelin or a Hendrix. They were supposed to be a fun, party, rock n' roll band and they accomplished that. If that's not your type of thing, just ignore them. It's not like they are preventing you from listening to things you do like.

*and to the other dude above, I already talked about GNR, who were blessed with the godgiven ability to break free from that glam scene, and kill it off. Any traces of Glam ended with Appetite.

Behold the man who allegedly, according to Buddha_Master, killed glam.

By the way, if glam ended after AFD, why did Poison's Flesh N' Blood still sell 3 million two years later in 1989?
You're in denial and you're no better that the Cobain nut swingers who say that Nirvana killed Guns N' Roses. Bullshit! No band killed anything. You're giving them too much credit. The industry runs this show and most people wouldn't have heard neither Poison, nor GN'R, nor Nirvana if they weren't signed by big record companies and whored on MTV.

[POPmetal]

I see a trend of two types of people emerging: 1) people who liked the music for what it was or just don't like it 2) people who hate it because of the media. VH1 special said this and that, or they loved it before, but the media dropped it and then they had an epiphany realized it was 'pussy bands.'

I'm proud to not give a fuck about what the media thinks. In the 80s, while MTV was playing all those? cheesy glam videos and Rolling Stone had those bands on their covers, millions of people thought the image was the shit and were eating up the albums and going to concerts in droves. Then MTV, Rolling Stone, etc. decide to curse their name and sweep them under the rug and change formats, and all of the sudden people realize what pussies the metal bands were. Then they become better, enlightened human beings with "good" tastes because they now realized REM or Nirvana or whatever is what real music is supposed to be. Give me a fuckin' break. Talk about posers!

[alternativemonkey]

I know we need Axl back but there's probably reasons he's gone for? a while .Like picture in the mid 90's? , when he wanted to follow the techno direction but Slash left the band probably saving the band's reputation . Would you like to have seen Guns go through a 180 degree turn like Metallica , they changed their attitude , the image, most importantly the music which was stupid and pissed off all their fans . Axl probably didn't want to continue when all the fans were dissing metal/r n' r for alternitive and grunge junk .One of the reasons i bashed mtv on this board before was because mtv has to share the same fans for whatever is considered rock , if mtv played a real Rock n' Roll band or Metal instead of like nirvana Guns probably would of lasted longer because there would still be fans supporting them for playing the same type of genre . If you took a grunge rocker in the mid/early nineties and placed him? in a time machine to go back in the eighties, he would be banging his to Maiden, J. Priest or Ozzy. But now let's look at the seventies type of fans although they were rocking out to Black Sabbath , Areosmith or Kiss , it was still cool to listen to music from the last generation like the Stones, The Doors , Hendrix , Janis Joplin and so on ... But in this day in age would you want to see Axl like Metallica in that movie Some kind of Monster whining about his drinking problems and paying councelors . Or him being a dad on a reality show acting goofy yelling at his kids ( I love Ozzy but that show destroyed his image as the hellraising rockstar he once was ) Or what else that? stupid show Velvet Revolver said they weren't going to make but they did anyway on Vh1 when they were? trying? out leadsingers, didn't the end just piss you off when they're all happy like little girls after the first performance ( No disrespect to the man Slash )A lot of these old bands that have returned had acted like idiots. Maybe in late 2002, Axl said,"If this is the way the Music Industry is going to be, fuck this then.I'm not going to sell out like these other has-beens,when the time is right, I shall return."

As for Some Kind of Monster, Axl has clearly displayed a tendency to "cry" in public about his own past child abuse (to Rolling Stone), unwarranted lawsuits (where to I begin?), members quitting the band (where do I begin? Is that a press release). The only difference between him and James Hetfield is that Axl didn't try to cash in on his narcisim and self-pity with a movie deal.

[Neemo]

Buddha_Master I grew up with that shit (Poison, Warrant, Tesla, Skid Row, Motley Crue, Aerosmith, Ozzy, Def Leppard, etc) bt it's funny how ozzy went from Sabbath to glam, huh? Whatever, like Pop Metal said, in the '80 that look was cool and bad ass, and while I never like poison as much as some other bands they still have way more talent than the majority of the bands around today, I never compared them to zepplin, stone, sabbath or whatever you think I did. I just said musicians were more talanted then than they are today.

p.s. how the fuck can you say a band sucks if all you know is what you saw on a damn tv show? I'm telling you I saw Poison live and they were very fucking good performers.

And you also said any traces of glam ended with appetite, just curious what is your favorite GnR album?

[Rob]

I'd type a long winded response to you Buddha Master, but you're really not worth it.  Plus others have made some good posts in Poison's defense.  You should listen to bands before forming an opinion of them.  Getting your opinions from VH1 makes you the ultimate poser.  C.C. is a modest dude when it comes to talking about his skill.  He's not the greatest guitarist around, but he did have talent.  As did many of the guitarists from that era.  Also as I've said before grouping all glam bands into one musical genre is very ignorant.  Glam was about the look.  Glam bands ranged from Poison, to Hanoi Rocks, to even GN'R (see picture above).  Bret Michaels is a good song writer.  He always had a love for music, and he did not write songs just to get chicks...even if the Led Zeppelin's dicks sucking music critics say that's what they did.

[*Izzy*]

Anyfuckinways, glam was the worst thing to happen to rock music. Thank god GNR broke free and put an end to that embarrassment (and thank God Metallica moved to San Fran to escape the glam fag scene).

There's a big difference between glam and hair metal, glam was the best thing to happen to rock

  Izzy?

[Buddha_Master]

You saying a hair band wasn't in the glam scene. One in the same.

From my perspective...I still don't know what the fact was going on in the 80's. I swear that decade was the fucking Twilight Zone. Im 31 now, if that helps paint the picture. I grew up with parents who raised me on the Beatles, and I never was much into them, until I started getting high and rediscovered them on my own. That's when I got educated and walked into this awakening, taking in the best of the best, that blew me away. Hendrix, Dylan, Floyd, Zepplin, Sabbath, Stones (though I don't like them now, and secretly wish they broke up years ago). Modern music, at the time, amazed me like Metallica. But I knew there was this other thing happening and to this day I explain what the fuck happened in the 80's. Shit maybe it was Bowie's fault (though at least he was musical), or the surviving remnants of Disco. But shit got gay and colorful, and cross gender shit, makeup and hairspray. And the ones doing this was saying they were Rock n' Roll. WTF?!

People were so happy and gay, with their "Obsession" music and an MTV that is only rivaled by the MTV of today. Yea Ozzy who was so fucking cool with Sabbath and everyfuckingbody got swept into this weird alternative dimension. I never got what the fuck was happening then, and I don't get it now. I will never understand how things got so fucked up in the 80's.

Listen just because PoisOn had a fanbase that still bought their shit, didn't mean shit once Appetite spread like the ebola virus. If you read what I wrote you wouldn't have felt inclined to post that pic of Axl. What happened to GNR was similar to what happened with the Beatles. The Beatles came from a scene? where you wore suits and looked clean, or wore nice leather jackets as it was in liverpool,lthough they were being more rebels having "mop tops," this is where they came from. But they grew out of that norm, and became who they really were, and created their own identity that didnt fall into that "trend."

The gay glam/hair whatever you want to call it, was a trend that over stayed its welcome. But they grew out of that, and dropped it creating their own thing, and because they were actually fucking talented, acknowledged by everyone in the business as being so, serious made a bigger impact on the rock scene. Genuine musicians no longer had to follow this fucked up trend, and could be more raw and real. Rock music could be dirty again and have the impact it used to before every went to hell. When backstreet boys made their comeback it sold to, so that means little that Poison sold as well to their um, fans. But they have no relevance in the industry. They are clown shoes.

History won't even remember that Crue is having a comeback, because they to are irrelevant today outside their hardcore fans. They never changed shit like GNR did, and that needs to be respected here. Going with the flow is something PoisOn lived by. GNR were meant to be the next Stones. There is a big difference. GNR came from L.A. and being caught in that fucked up warp was unnavoidable. Its how shit was. But they broke through the fog and will never be defined by it like PoisOn.

And bringing this back to topic, GNR lost their way too towards the end. And Axl leaving was a godsend. He can rise like the Pheonix now if he wants, because of it, and make an impact.