Maybe Axl's absence is for the better...

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

Just the prospect of Tommy Stinson collaborating with Axl is amazing to me at least

to me too 
And i wasn't even a replacements fan....  it only took Village Gorilla Head to get me excited about that prospect.  Tommy showcased a hell of a lot of talent and style on VGH.  Great album.  And when we read about how collaborative an effort CD is...   I'm just really psyched to hear Tommy's sh*t on it. 

[POPmetal]

MikeB has his finger on the pulse of what's going on. A band like GN'R had two options for releasing an album in the post Nirvana era:

1) do a grunge-friendly album with toned down guitars and subdued vocals and get all the promotion in the world and a pass from the critics. That's what Metallica did.

OR

2) do a real rock record and receive shitty promotion from the record company and get ruthlessly savaged by music critics.

So it was a good thing to wait until the 90s passed to do a comeback. The grunge fad is becoming less and less relevant. Music critics are becoming irrelevant. So are MTV and Rolling Stone. The handful of people still stuck in 1993 don't matter anymore. Time is on our side. Most people no longer think that having talent is a bad thing. With new bands like the Darkness and S.O.D. breaking down barriers, the day is coming when GN'R can make a comeback and be huge.

[Rob]

MikeB has his finger on the pulse of what's going on. A band like GN'R had two options for releasing an album in the post Nirvana era:

1) do a grunge-friendly album with toned down guitars and subdued vocals and get all the promotion in the world and a pass from the critics. That's what Metallica did.

OR

2) do a real rock record and receive shitty promotion from the record company and get ruthlessly savaged by music critics.

So it was a good thing to wait until the 90s passed to do a comeback. The grunge fad is becoming less and less relevant. Music critics are becoming irrelevant. So are MTV and Rolling Stone. The handful of people still stuck in 1993 don't matter anymore. Time is on our side. Most people no longer think that having talent is a bad thing. With new bands like the Darkness and S.O.D. breaking down barriers, the day is coming when GN'R can make a comeback and be huge.

I disagree...what about bands like Aerosmith and AC/DC.  They didn't change their sound at all and were still popular with the critics and the fans.  I think GN'R was on that level where they could do whatever they wanted and people would stick with them.  They were the biggest band in the world.  GN'R would still've got good promotion and fan support.  Some bands are bigger than trends and fads, and I think GN'R definitely were.

[POPmetal]

Well, I agree about GN'R being in the same league as Aerosmith and AC/DC, but you're obviously clueless because none of the albums they've released since 94 have sold well. Do you consider it a success for a band of GN'R, AC/DC, or Aerosmith's stature to merely sell 1 or 2 million while the Creeds and 7 mary 3 doors downs were selling upwards of 6 million? AC/DC's last one didn't even go platinum. Personally, I don't care how much it sells and I don't care what your measure of success is, but I can tell you this much: if all CD does is go double platinum, the music world would perceive it as a failure in times when crap like Coldplay sells that much in their first month out.

[mikegiuliana]

Well, I agree about GN'R being in the same league as Aerosmith and AC/DC, but you're obviously clueless because none of the albums they've released since 94 have sold well. Do you consider it a success for a band of GN'R, AC/DC, or Aerosmith's stature to merely sell 1 or 2 million while the Creeds and 7 mary 3 doors downs were selling upwards of 6 million? AC/DC's last one didn't even go platinum. Personally, I don't care how much it sells and I don't care what your measure of success is, but I can tell you this much: if all CD does is go double platinum, the music world would perceive it as a failure in times when crap like Coldplay sells that much in their first month out.

but ac/dc isn't out plugging their album away.. it could come and go and I would never know.. GNR is a comeback album, it's? project in the works for 7 years... Ac/dc isn't going to close the vmas..
gnr did amazing with afd then lies the illusions after that all downhill.. TSI, Live era and GH picked up..


Creed was a fav of the time they would have died off too, same with coldplay.. That is the music that everyone can get into adn say look at me I'm into rock.. Ac/dc back in black has sold the 5th most in history.. Every band has a time period where they are unstopable..

Aerosmtih have done so amazing, they made one of the most succesfull comebacks ever..pump permanet vacation big ones their duet with run dmc get a grip monster album in 1993 with many hits, living on the edge, crying, amazing their hit on armageddon.. All when grunge was king and rock was dying..

ac/dc is an example of an older established band.. They have a tremendous following and can sell out any venue but their album sales areno longer huge,, Only a few groups have longevity like say U-2 that could sell shit on a stick.. Most bands that stay around20-30 years don't have massive album sales all trhough out.. There's periods in time where they are hot and forever known..

[Scabbie]

AC/DC rock. I can't wait for the next album, its one of the few up and coming releases that make the wait for Chinese Democracy a little easier.

[POPmetal]

Well, I agree about GN'R being in the same league as Aerosmith and AC/DC, but you're obviously clueless because none of the albums they've released since 94 have sold well. Do you consider it a success for a band of GN'R, AC/DC, or Aerosmith's stature to merely sell 1 or 2 million while the Creeds and 7 mary 3 doors downs were selling upwards of 6 million? AC/DC's last one didn't even go platinum. Personally, I don't care how much it sells and I don't care what your measure of success is, but I can tell you this much: if all CD does is go double platinum, the music world would perceive it as a failure in times when crap like Coldplay sells that much in their first month out.

but ac/dc isn't out plugging their album away.. it could come and go and I would never know.. GNR is a comeback album, it's? project in the works for 7 years... Ac/dc isn't going to close the vmas..
gnr did amazing with afd then lies the illusions after that all downhill.. TSI, Live era and GH picked up..


Creed was a fav of the time they would have died off too, same with coldplay.. That is the music that everyone can get into adn say look at me I'm into rock.. Ac/dc back in black has sold the 5th most in history.. Every band has a time period where they are unstopable..

Aerosmtih have done so amazing, they made one of the most succesfull comebacks ever..pump permanet vacation big ones their duet with run dmc get a grip monster album in 1993 with many hits, living on the edge, crying, amazing their hit on armageddon.. All when grunge was king and rock was dying..

ac/dc is an example of an older established band.. They have a tremendous following and can sell out any venue but their album sales areno longer huge,, Only a few groups have longevity like say U-2 that could sell shit on a stick.. Most bands that stay around20-30 years don't have massive album sales all trhough out.. There's periods in time where they are hot and forever known..

Yeah, AC/DC won't close the VMAs. But we all know how well that worked out for Guns N' Roses. Especially when the next day, the VMA recap on MTV's web site claimed that GN'R "took the audience back to their glory hair days." Maybe you need to wake up and smell the coffee, but that's a backhanded compliment. A hair band is about the worst thing possible for MTV's audience. I was in college (a big market for music) back then and I'd ask around people what they thought of Guns N' Roses at the VMAs and most of the responses were along the line of, 'oh I'm not really into that.' And what's up with Axl's earpiece not working during the performance? Has anyone ever seen such a malfunction at a big awards show before? Normally those things are tested to death and they have back ups for everything to ensure things go smoothly. I don't think there was a conspiracy by MTV to fuck GN'R over or anything. There are people at MTV like Kurt Loder who are really rooting for GN'R to come back in a big way, but there are also holdovers who still hate that kind of music and I wouldn't be surprised if someone behind the scenes "accidently" pulled a plug somewhere. If I was in GN'R management, I wouldn't rely much on MTV and I would try to cause a stir and promote CD by other means. It would be more effective anyway.

And you bring up Get A Grip as an example of a good rock record that's sold well while "Grunge was king." That's a terrible example because it came right in the middle of the transition period. How come it hasn't been done ever since then? The sad reality is that Get A Grip was that kind of music's dying gasp (at least as far as mainstream success is concerned). Chinese Democracy hadn't even been conceived in 93 and they were releasing TSI, so there was no chance of it coming out at the same time as Get A Grip. Do you think it would have been liekely for an album like Get A Grip to sell 7 mil if it came out in 98 or 2000 when music with guitar solos was shunned like the plague by MTV and radio?

Lastly, I don't think Axl would be satisfied with being a concert act with huge tours but low album sales like AC/DC. He strikes me as an all or nothing type of guy. Either he's gonna be one of those bands, like you mentioned U2, where they continue to sell a lot of new albums AND sell out big tours, or it's gonna be nothing. This has a lot to do with why we're still waiting for CD.

[Krispy Kreme]

Mike, you hit the nail on the head. The reaction to CD is the key. We're going to know a week or two before its release on how big of a monster the album is gonna be. I think it will have HUGE first week sales, but will it have staying power? You're also right about Axl's marketing playing a part. He probably wont do it well. I just cant picture him doing videos,SNL, Tonight Show, interviews,etc. You just dont go from being an agoraphobic to immediately being the life of the party. It doesn't work that way. And about Axl's 3 album statement: I never believed it. If you're having MAJOR difficulty doing one album, why are you concentrating on two more? The logic about 3 albums never made sense. Axl's intentions were good when he made that statement. But it was just mindless rambling. I cant believe he never received any follow up questions to the 3 albums statement.

I am impressed..a person on this board actually used a word that I had to look up, and I have a Ph.D. from an Ivy league school. Cool. agoraphobic: a person who has a fear of being in an open or public place.

[Krispy Kreme]

Well, I agree about GN'R being in the same league as Aerosmith and AC/DC, but you're obviously clueless because none of the albums they've released since 94 have sold well. Do you consider it a success for a band of GN'R, AC/DC, or Aerosmith's stature to merely sell 1 or 2 million while the Creeds and 7 mary 3 doors downs were selling upwards of 6 million? AC/DC's last one didn't even go platinum. Personally, I don't care how much it sells and I don't care what your measure of success is, but I can tell you this much: if all CD does is go double platinum, the music world would perceive it as a failure in times when crap like Coldplay sells that much in their first month out.

What?? Aerosmith became HUGE with their comeback in 98/99 and thereafer. I don't have the numbers, but I would bet they sold more after '99 than during '72-98. And if you notice, they tour mainly on the post-'99 music, with some (but marginal) attention to the "old" stuff.

[Rob]

Don't Wanna Miss A Thing was their only #1 single and it came out in the late 90's.  And while the albums they've released haven't sold huge amounts, they've still sold pretty well and they still play large sold out venues...as does AC/DC.  And the main thing you mentioned was getting slammed by music critics, and neither AC/DC or Aerosmith get slammed by critics.  Even Just Push Play got pretty favorable reviews, and that album isn't very good at all.

[POPmetal]

Well, I agree about GN'R being in the same league as Aerosmith and AC/DC, but you're obviously clueless because none of the albums they've released since 94 have sold well. Do you consider it a success for a band of GN'R, AC/DC, or Aerosmith's stature to merely sell 1 or 2 million while the Creeds and 7 mary 3 doors downs were selling upwards of 6 million? AC/DC's last one didn't even go platinum. Personally, I don't care how much it sells and I don't care what your measure of success is, but I can tell you this much: if all CD does is go double platinum, the music world would perceive it as a failure in times when crap like Coldplay sells that much in their first month out.

What?? Aerosmith became HUGE with their comeback in 98/99 and thereafer. I don't have the numbers, but I would bet they sold more after '99 than during '72-98. And if you notice, they tour mainly on the post-'99 music, with some (but marginal) attention to the "old" stuff.

The only studio albums Aerosmith released since 98 are Just Push Play, which sold 1 million, and Honkin' On Bobo which only went Gold (500,000). They also had two new songs on the 1998 Armageddon movie soundtrack. The soundtrack had a diverse range of artists including ZZ Top, Better Than Ezra, Journey, Chantal Kreviazuk, Jon Bon Jovi, and Patty Smyth. Most of all, its sales were helped by the biggest summer blockbuster of that year. But even if you ignored that and gave Aerosmith all the credit for the 4 million it sold, that adds up to a total of 5.5 million albums since 1998. This is less than 1993's Get A Grip alone, which went 7 times platinum. 1989's Pump also sold 7 million and 1987's Permanent Vacation sold 5. This is not even counting their early albums, most of which are at least platinum. You can check it out for yourself at riaa.com

[POPmetal]

Don't Wanna Miss A Thing was their only #1 single and it came out in the late 90's.? And while the albums they've released haven't sold huge amounts, they've still sold pretty well and they still play large sold out venues...as does AC/DC.? And the main thing you mentioned was getting slammed by music critics, and neither AC/DC or Aerosmith get slammed by critics.? Even Just Push Play got pretty favorable reviews, and that album isn't very good at all.

I don't know. I just don't see Axl Rose making his return by recording a Diane Warren pop song and riding the coattails of a big summer blockbuster. I Don't Wanna Miss a Thing is a good song, but it is without question a pure pop song, not a rock song. It was also radio safe for 1998 because it lacked a guitar solo. You don't get three guitarists in your band like Axl did to record songs with no guitars. It was a smart move for Aerosmith at the time and they could get away with it because Steven Tyler's daughter was in the movie, but it's hardly evidence that a Guns N' Roses rock song would be able to hit #1 in 1998. (Off topic, but I highly recommend the Armageddon soundtrack if you don't have it since the other new Aerosmith song on it, What Kinda Love Are You On, is one of their best ever!). And getting slammed by the critics was not the "main" thing I said, it was only one of the things I said and when it comes to the critics,? Guns N' Roses is not Aerosmith or AC/DC. I suspect you're unaware of GN'R's history with critics, but Chinese Democracy hasn't even come out and it has already been placed on "worst of" lists. Not that it really matters anymore, because, like I said before, they are becoming more and more irrelevant.

[jabba2]

To Clarify your clarification:

" A conversation with him is usually quick and to the point, and he never hesitated when asked why he suddenly stopped work on SMiLE 37 years ago: "We were on some bad drugs, but we were also way ahead of our time."
http://www.eqmag.com/story.asp?sectioncode=36&storycode=4696

When I said a couple decades, I was off too. It was almost 4.

I hope Brian Wilson isn't one of Axl's inspirations. If so, I may not be hearing Chinese D before I'm 70.

I have the near completed version of SMiLE from 1966 and its actually alot better than the 2004 version. The vocals were re-recorded with new bandmembers in 2004, but music and lyrics were 100% complete in 1966. The 1966 SMilE was a finished record.

[mikegiuliana]

Well, I agree about GN'R being in the same league as Aerosmith and AC/DC, but you're obviously clueless because none of the albums they've released since 94 have sold well. Do you consider it a success for a band of GN'R, AC/DC, or Aerosmith's stature to merely sell 1 or 2 million while the Creeds and 7 mary 3 doors downs were selling upwards of 6 million? AC/DC's last one didn't even go platinum. Personally, I don't care how much it sells and I don't care what your measure of success is, but I can tell you this much: if all CD does is go double platinum, the music world would perceive it as a failure in times when crap like Coldplay sells that much in their first month out.

What?? Aerosmith became HUGE with their comeback in 98/99 and thereafer. I don't have the numbers, but I would bet they sold more after '99 than during '72-98. And if you notice, they tour mainly on the post-'99 music, with some (but marginal) attention to the "old" stuff.

The only studio albums Aerosmith released since 98 are Just Push Play, which sold 1 million, and Honkin' On Bobo which only went Gold (500,000). They also had two new songs on the 1998 Armageddon movie soundtrack. The soundtrack had a diverse range of artists including ZZ Top, Better Than Ezra, Journey, Chantal Kreviazuk, Jon Bon Jovi, and Patty Smyth. Most of all, its sales were helped by the biggest summer blockbuster of that year. But even if you ignored that and gave Aerosmith all the credit for the 4 million it sold, that adds up to a total of 5.5 million albums since 1998. This is less than 1993's Get A Grip alone, which went 7 times platinum. 1989's Pump also sold 7 million and 1987's Permanent Vacation sold 5. This is not even counting their early albums, most of which are at least platinum. You can check it out for yourself at riaa.com

You have to understand something, beside maybe the beatles and elvis when groups get older they still have huge followings if they were really big at one time like ac/dc or aerosmith but it's hard to keep every new generation buying millions of your albums.. Very few like say bon jovi ior u-2 have this kind of crossover power...

Honkin on bobo was a bluesy album not slammed into the public eye like a lot of their previous albums.. At times when Korn or Limp rule the charts Aeromsith seems obsolete to the current people buying all the albums.. it's like KISS they could sell out any venue but their album sales were tons of GOLD albums..

I know the bands I loved and ran out to buy albums for as a teen I don't do the same when these groups put music out now.. It's not because of their music, it's because I have only a few favs I still care about, but if they toured I'd buy a ticket in a second..

There's no album out there that is long awaited like CD and no album that has had so much money or time put into it either... Everyone has a lemon here n there, you just can't sell millions each time around..

Yeah, AC/DC won't close the VMAs. But we all know how well that worked out for Guns N' Roses. Especially when the next day, the VMA recap on MTV's web site claimed that GN'R "took the audience back to their glory hair days."

  I said it because ac/dc can close the vmas but they chose not to.. GNR had always been mtv friendly and axl has always had the relationship with kurt loder... Closing the vmas is great to get publicity, you will be seen by millions for the next 4 months constantly.. Nobody I knew had a good word to say about the vmas, it was all who was that, what happened to axl, why is slash in a bucket costume, was it a bit with jimmy fallon??

[younggunner]

GNr will never sell as many albums as old gnr and they will never be as popular as old gnr. There are many factors that go into that. But the album will sell and if its good GNr can be big again.

WHen/if they make a comeback it will not be like one of those old time bands who are putting out an album. It will be a completely different promotional and marketing strategy.

[Rob]

I'm plenty aware of GN'R's history with critics.  They received their share of shit from critics, but they've also enjoyed plenty of success with critics.  Appettite appears on countless top albums lists and you never hear anything negative about the album.  And even the UYIs received pretty favorable responses from most critics.  If your argument is that critics are very anit-GN'R, then they would have been slammed by critics no matter what they did.  Motley Crue put out a couple grunge friendly albums and they weren't given a pass by critics.  And exactly what period of time for Aerosmith are we debating here?  I was refering to anything during the grunge era or after that.  They still remained one of the more successful rock bands in the world.  Honkin' On Bobo wasn't supposed to sell millions of copies.  They, for the first time in a while, put out an album not to sell copies but to entertain their true fans.  Its the best material they've put out in years.  Bobo did exactly what it was supposed to do, and Aerosmith can afford to release albums like that because they remained so successful through the 90's.

[POPmetal]

I agree that a lot of the major bands have a big run and after that it's OK for them to become big touring acts without selling many albums. But I think Axl wants Guns N' Roses to be one of the select few, like the Beatles, Elvis or U2. He wants to come back with a bang like Aerosmith did in the 80s. Some of you think that because GN'R is considered in the same league as Aerosmith, all they have to do is put out a good album and they'll rocket to the top of the charts and sell millions like Aerosmith did with Permanent Vacation and Pump. But it's not as simple as that. When Aerosmith did their 80s comeback, the mainstream music scene was dominated by bands like Motley Crue who grew up on Aerosmith and were inspired by Aerosmith. Releasing Permanent Vacation in 86 was like homecoming for Aerosmith. The late 90s were a completely different deal. The mainstream music scene was not receptive to a band like GN'R. Bands like Green Day or Pearl Jam weren't gonna tour in support of GN'R like Motley did for Aerosmith in the 80s. On the contrary, they hated metal and what GN'R stood for. They've made a career out of bashing metal. They didn't grow up on GN'R, they were a part of the backlash against GN'R. Releasing a guitar driven album in the late 90s would not have been like homecoming, it would have been like entering hostile territory. The late 90s was a terrible time for releasing guitar driven rock music. GN'R could have recorded the best album ever made and it would have sold less if it was released in 98 than if the exact same thing was released in 93 or 2003. Timing matters! A lot!

I also agree that it's extremely difficult for a band like GN'R to make a comeback and be as big or bigger than before. But it's not impossible if the promoters are creative and dedicated enough. CD has a lot going for it. Look at us here. Our numbers may be small, but we have to be the most loyal and dedicated fans that any band has ever had! GN'R should take advantage of that and use us for a word of mouth guerilla marketing campaign. Also, if you think about it, the name CD is brilliant and can be used to cause a giant stir and bring a lot of attention to the new album. Late 2007/early 2008 just might be the ultimate time to unleash Chinese Democracy.

[POPmetal]

I'm plenty aware of GN'R's history with critics.? They received their share of shit from critics, but they've also enjoyed plenty of success with critics.? Appettite appears on countless top albums lists and you never hear anything negative about the album.? And even the UYIs received pretty favorable responses from most critics.? If your argument is that critics are very anit-GN'R, then they would have been slammed by critics no matter what they did.? Motley Crue put out a couple grunge friendly albums and they weren't given a pass by critics.? And exactly what period of time for Aerosmith are we debating here?? I was refering to anything during the grunge era or after that.? They still remained one of the more successful rock bands in the world.? Honkin' On Bobo wasn't supposed to sell millions of copies.? They, for the first time in a while, put out an album not to sell copies but to entertain their true fans.? Its the best material they've put out in years.? Bobo did exactly what it was supposed to do, and Aerosmith can afford to release albums like that because they remained so successful through the 90's.

Yes, in general, most critics are very anti-GN'R. I'm sure someone as pedantic as yourself can scour the net and find some positive reviews, but anyone who knows GN'R, knows that the critics love to hate them, especially Axl. Personally, I see that as a badge of honor. I'm proud that those losers love to hate my favorite band. And AFD wasn't an album that was made successful because of positive reviews, it was embraced by the critics only after it became one of the most successful debuts in rock history.

I never said anything against Honkin' On Bobo, I love the album, so I don't know what your fuss is about.

But I'm glad you brought up Motley Crue. Motley Crue never did a grunge friendly album. Their 94 album with John Corabi basically spit in the face of the post Nirvana status quo. They gave a big middle finger to the entire industry and actually released their most heavy metal album in 1994. Generation Swine was really out there and while it wasn't guitar heavy or a metal album, it didn't have much to do with grunge either. Just because something is different and experimental, doesn't make it grunge friendly. It didn't even get chance at commercial success because the record company refused to release Glitter, the song with the most cross over potential, as a single. Elektra did more damage than help with their "promotion" of GS. A freakin indy label would have probably managed to push more coppies of that album. Getting out of their Elektra deal was probably the smartest move Motley Crue made in the late 90s.

Keep up the good work, all of the example you've brought up so far only make my case stronger: the late 90s was a bad time to release a rock record and waiting it out will only help make GN'Rs comeback bigger.

[Rob]

Generation Swine was not grunge friendly, but it was industrial friendly...which at the time it was released was pretty similar to being grunge friendly in '94.  The Corabi album is heavier than most Motley, but it definitely tries to bend a little to that era.  A true middle finger to the music industry would have been to release New Tatoo as the follow-up to Dr. Feelgood.  In The Dirt Nikki Sixx says that album should've been the follow up to Feelgood.  If you read The Dirt you'd realize how much the Crue were trying to sound like whatever the trend in rock was at the time...whether it be grunge or industrial.  But I do agree with you that its cool to have the critics hate GN'R.  It helps that us against the world mentality the band used to have.

[MikeB]

Idiot fans are almost giving their lives just to see this album release. Get it through your head people, just because bands made great music dosen't mean they can reclaim their throne again. If you want Rock n' Roll to rule again, wish? for a new band to debut and start a new awesome generation. You know, sometimes I wonder ... When was the last time Axl talked to his current bandmates, two and a half years ago? Is there really an album called Chinese Democracy? 50 percent , I think CD is just some fake album for Axl to escape from the fame and showbiz to deal with his personal demons and the other half , yeah he does have faith for music and really misses being the biggest Rock n' Roll icon , so he's working in the studio working on some kind of new material. But a Rock n' Roll band only comes and goes.