Debate grows over teaching of abstinence

[SLCPUNK]

Is this realistic?

*******


Debate grows over teaching of abstinence

By Dana Wilkie
COPLEY NEWS SERVICE

June 16, 2005

WASHINGTON ? In public schools and after-school programs across the country, some children are being taught that saving sex until marriage can prevent emotional and health problems as well as poverty, substance abuse and suicide.

In addition to learning that romantic relationships can be sensitive and complicated, girls are told that they can lose a boy by offering too much advice, and that they can hang on to him by regarding him with amazement and "wonder."

Supporters say abstinence-only education ? for which federal funding could see a dramatic increase under President Bush ? is the most wholesome and effective way to teach kids about sex. To critics, such programs sometimes go too far by exaggerating the consequences of sex before marriage and by advocating gender stereotypes that suggest girls be subservient to boys.

leven of 13 federally funded abstinence programs commonly used by schools and community groups were found to have several errors, according to a survey by Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Los Angeles. "We were surprised by the different types of misinformation and errors, said Karen Lightfoot, spokeswoman for Waxman.

More..

Find this article at:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050616/news_1n16abstain.html

[Tied-Up]

Supporters say abstinence-only education ? for which federal funding could see a dramatic increase under President Bush ? is the most wholesome and effective way to teach kids about sex. To critics, such programs sometimes go too far by exaggerating the consequences of sex before marriage and by advocating gender stereotypes that suggest girls be subservient to boys.

Who decides what is "most wholesome"?  I really think it sucks when the government decides what is moral for the rest of the population. 

Re: the bold text that I added... this is the kind of thing that CONTINUES to perpetuate the oppression of women.  (Something that some people will go so far to suggest doesn't exist any longer thanks to women's lib!)

The government should not be advocating the teaching of 'morality' in a country that is supposed to be 'free'.  This freedom grants the freedom to choose one's own religion (or lack of one) ... and morality is something that is deeply woven within the teachings and followings of one's religious beliefs.

As a parent I would be much happier with a school teaching sex education, and offering free condoms to prevent STDs and pregnancy, than having my school tell kids to 'just say no to sex'.  This didn't work when I was a kid, it didn't wok when my parents were kids, and I doubt it's going to work now.

Instead, offer a counseling center where kids can be listened to, their questions can be answered (let's face it, most parents aren't very comfortable answering some of these questions, and some kids probably are not very comfortable asking their parents) in a non-judgemental atmosphere, and have the tools available to them should they decide that they are going to have sex.

[a fan]

Well, the government can get away with anything, even if it is unconstitutional.  I feel very strongly that sex ed or abstinence should not be taught in school.  Some might say that they should at least teach sex ed, just the facts, like tell them what certain diseases are and how to prevent them.  But sex has nothing to do with school, it is something you learn about on your own and through experience...not necessarily having sex, but just life experience, you know...you understand more about things the older you get.  But I don't think personal opinions should have anything to do with this issue, 'cause no one will agree that way.  The issue is that a lifestyle should not be forced on anyone, and if it is, it is unconstitutional.

[GnRNightrain]

Well, the government can get away with anything, even if it is unconstitutional.? I feel very strongly that sex ed or abstinence should not be taught in school.? Some might say that they should at least teach sex ed, just the facts, like tell them what certain diseases are and how to prevent them.? But sex has nothing to do with school, it is something you learn about on your own and through experience...not necessarily having sex, but just life experience, you know...you understand more about things the older you get.? But I don't think personal opinions should have anything to do with this issue, 'cause no one will agree that way.? The issue is that a lifestyle should not be forced on anyone, and if it is, it is unconstitutional.

I dont know about unconstitutional.  I think you are throwing that term around too loosely.  They are not forcing a lifestyle on anyone, they are simply only choosing to teach half of the story.  Personally, I think its absurd.  Some of these politicians just dont live in the same world that we live in.  These kids need people to talk to, and they need people to tell them how to be safe. 

[a fan]

They are forcing a lifestyle on them.  They are telling them to be abstinent, and that is what they are forcing on them.  They are forcing a way of thinking on people, some of whom might be naive, for lack of a better term, enough to mimick whatever is shown to them, especially if taught to young teenagers.  It is not the school's or government's place to teach someone about sex.  Everyone has their own views of sex, what they'll do, what is wrong or right for them, when they are comfortable having sex, etc.  That is a personal thing that shouldn't be manipulated by people who have authority over you.

[a fan]

Teenagers should learn about that stuff through living anyway, through TV, through their friends, through music, if they have to learn about that stuff by someone telling them word for word, then they probably aren't the ones who are having sex in the first place.  It's not the ignorant ones who get mixed up in crap they can't handle, it's the stupid ones.

[Tied-Up]

Well, the government can get away with anything, even if it is unconstitutional.? I feel very strongly that sex ed or abstinence should not be taught in school.  Some might say that they should at least teach sex ed, just the facts, like tell them what certain diseases are and how to prevent them.  But sex has nothing to do with school, it is something you learn about on your own and through experience...not necessarily having sex, but just life experience, you know...you understand more about things the older you get.? But I don't think personal opinions should have anything to do with this issue, 'cause no one will agree that way.? The issue is that a lifestyle should not be forced on anyone, and if it is, it is unconstitutional.

What is school about exactly?

Math... why do you need math?  So that you can get through life, knowing how to balance your checkbook and complete transactions, and other things to get you through life.

English/Literature/Grammar/Spelling ... (I lumped these together because in my high school they were all one subject) ... why do you need these things?  So that you can have clear and lucid communication with others.  So that you can experience some culture.  Other things to get you through life.

Art/Music ... why do you need these things?  Again so that you can experience some culture, and understand the need to appreciate human culture.

Science ... why do we need science?  So we can better understand the world around us, why things are as they are, and on a larger scale, how things can change.

~ I think that sex education should fall under science... because it's not just something that you should "learn on your own through your own experiences" ... at it's base, it's about our very existence.  It's about life.  You need to know these essential things in life.  Also, scientific research about pregnancy, life-threatening STDs ... these things would also fall under science.  Just because it's often classified as a 'human recreational activity' -- it is the very essence of life and should therefore be explored and understood in school.

School's primary purpose is to prepare our young to enter in to the adult world armed with an education.  They need sex education.

What they DO NOT need in school... is to have their morality taught to them.  That is something that a person SHOULD learn on their own, using their own experiences and own beliefs that come from making their own mistakes and experiencing their own triumphs. 

[Jim]

Phew, I thought that ^ was an anti-education post when I skimmed over it.

I'm with the girl above me. 

[a fan]

I don't know how old you are, but when you get out of school and into the real world, all the English and Science and Math crap serves no purpose.? Calculus and complex sentences won't do anything for you.? You need basic math...add, divide, multipy, substract...how is knowing how to find the area of a circle going to help you in life?? You need to be able to speak correctly, but that's basically it.? School is not about learning about life...their is the academic part, where you learn about a lot of crap you'll mostly never need, and there is the social part, but sex has no place there.? You want to know about reproduction, that is what biology or anatomy is for.? Are they going to describe to the kids how you have sex?? It is instinct, and what can you really teach someone about disease?? All it'll do is scare them and make it seem like the other useless crap they learn, and they won't take it seriously.? You want advice...wear a condom and take birth control...the rest you'll pick up on the way.? All the info they give them is false and biased anyway.?

[Tied-Up]

I don't know how old you are, but when you get out of school and into the real world, all the English and Science and Math crap serves no purpose.? Calculus and complex sentences won't do anything for you.? You need basic math...add, divide, multipy, substract...how is knowing how to find the area of a circle going to help you in life?? You need to be able to speak correctly, but that's basically it.? School is not about learning about life...their is the academic part, where you learn about a lot of crap you'll mostly never need, and there is the social part, but sex has no place there.? You want to know about reproduction, that is what biology or anatomy is for.? Are they going to describe to the kids how you have sex?? It is instinct, and what can you really teach someone about disease?? All it'll do is scare them and make it seem like the other useless crap they learn, and they won't take it seriously.? You want advice...wear a condom and take birth control...the rest you'll pick up on the way.? All the info they give them is false and biased anyway.?

You aren't born with the knowledge to understand math...  You aren't born with the knowledge on how to read, or write, or even how to perform you job duties.  School serves the purpose to train you, give you a broad based education so that you are armed with the skills and knowledge to do these things. 

You can also learn them by just living life...... but, consider this...

Do you think that the first people who contracted aids knew the dangers of contracting aids?  No...probably not, because it was a new disease.  It was then researched and studied (by people who WENT TO SCHOOL).  Until there were conclusive studies, a lot of false information was spread about how the disease was contracted. 

There was a lot of panic.  Fear comes from not knowing or not understanding.  The way to undermine fear is to be educated.

Education teaches us not just about facts and figures but in looking at the larger picture, it gives us a base understanding of life.  Since sex is the essence of life, sex education should be a key element in school... if you take away the fear (and more important:  the curiosity) of sex by offering education, there will be fewer teen age pregnancies, and fewer sexually transmitted diseases among teen age kids.

[SLCPUNK]

Well, the government can get away with anything, even if it is unconstitutional.? I feel very strongly that sex ed or abstinence should not be taught in school.? Some might say that they should at least teach sex ed, just the facts, like tell them what certain diseases are and how to prevent them.? But sex has nothing to do with school, it is something you learn about on your own and through experience...not necessarily having sex, but just life experience, you know...you understand more about things the older you get.? But I don't think personal opinions should have anything to do with this issue, 'cause no one will agree that way.? The issue is that a lifestyle should not be forced on anyone, and if it is, it is unconstitutional.

What is school about exactly?

Discipline.

[Tied-Up]

Thank you SLC... that is exactly what I was trying to express. 

[GnRNightrain]

They are forcing a lifestyle on them.? They are telling them to be abstinent, and that is what they are forcing on them.? They are forcing a way of thinking on people, some of whom might be naive, for lack of a better term, enough to mimick whatever is shown to them, especially if taught to young teenagers.? It is not the school's or government's place to teach someone about sex.? Everyone has their own views of sex, what they'll do, what is wrong or right for them, when they are comfortable having sex, etc.? That is a personal thing that shouldn't be manipulated by people who have authority over you.

Im sorry, but that argument is absolutely ludicrous.  Whether you like it or not the government is in the business of teaching us a lot of things.  And whether you like it or not the government only teaches one side of many things.  Everyone has their own views on a lot of things, yet the government teaches politics, history, and science in the classroom through the public school system.  In fact, its about time they teach some of these kids from the inner cities useful stuff.  I think its great that they are trying to help these kids out from making the wrong decisions.  I dont think they are forcing a lifestyle on anyone.  They are simply saying that this is the only 100% safe way.  Naive, yes.  Forcing a lifestyle, no.

[GnRNightrain]

Teenagers should learn about that stuff through living anyway, through TV, through their friends, through music

Music are you kidding?  50 cent, Snoop Dog etc.?  I think a big part of the problem may be that kids in inner cities learn far too much music.

What if your life consists of a single mother that is working all day while the kids are in some poor inner city neighborhood.  Basically the kids will learn from gang members, drug addicts, and gangster rap.

[a fan]

I am all for knowledge, but I don't think that certain things should be taught in school.? I think that in today's society, it is very easy to learn about diseases and stuff...hell, the internet is right there, and there are lots of good shows on the health channel that talk about sex.? But I don't think school should teach that, for lots of reasons...first of all, look at school in general...it is a sugarcoated version of reality.? All the inspirational posters and people filling your head with generic crap.?

To those who are out of school, and did not have sex ed, are they completely ignorant as to what STDs are or how to prevent them?? Are they still under the impression that they can have sex with no risk of pregnancy?? No.? People will learn these things on their own, in whatever way, as they grow older and have life experiences and are allowed to live their life on their own terms.? The kids that get STDS and get pregnant are stupid, not ignorant.? I refuse to believe that in this day and age, with everything on TV and the media, and even their peers, that a kid doesn't know that if you have sex, you can get pregnant or get a disease.? Chances are if a kid gets pregnant or gets a disease, it's not 'cause they don't know about the consequences or what can happen, it's 'cause they're convinced that "it can't happen to them"...and getting people to see otherwise is not something that can be taught, and most people never grow out of thinking that on some aspects of their lives.

[Tied-Up]

I am all for knowledge, but I don't think that certain things should be taught in school.? I think that in today's society, it is very easy to learn about diseases and stuff...hell, the internet is right there, and there are lots of good shows on the health channel that talk about sex.? But I don't think school should teach that, for lots of reasons...first of all, look at school in general...it is a sugarcoated version of reality.? All the inspirational posters and people filling your head with generic crap.?

Yes, the internet is right there... and you should BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ ON THE INTERNET, RIGHT?? How about school teaching facts... unfettered facts.? School teaches facts... and also teaches discipline, and also teaches a student of LIFE how to discern fact from fiction.?

BTW the 'inspirational posters' are about spreading ideas.? Spreading good ideas help promote ways of positive ways of thinking.? There is nothing wrong with trying to promote positive ways of thinking, so long as it's not suggesting or promoting a code of moral ethics and is instead promoting a healthy learning atmosphere.

Just because you know how to obtain information, it doesn't mean that everyone has those same benefits.  Not everyone owns a computer.  Not everyone is previledged enough to have these things provided for them... for these people, their only source of knowledge is the few hours they spend a day in a classroom...

In Africa... there are people who believe that the way to cure aids is to have sex with a virgin.  But, yeah, in this day and age, everyone knows how this disease is spread.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

I don't know how old you are, but when you get out of school and into the real world, all the English and Science and Math crap serves no purpose.? Calculus and complex sentences won't do anything for you.? You need basic math...add, divide, multipy, substract...how is knowing how to find the area of a circle going to help you in life??

escuse me ?
not everybody wanna become a waiter or fast food cook
trust me there are million jobs out there that needs more than add and divide.
so please. math is great thing. so is any sciences. and i think that kids are already dumb enough with tv and music, they should learn harder stuff at school and see what REALLY is behind any difficult subject (math, quantum physics, philosophy ....)

about that abstinence thing.
i think sex is something you learn by your own, by your social activities and life

the only thing that we must teach kids : wear condoms. thats it.
the rest of it is their problem.

that mariage thing is BS. how in hell mariage solves everything. mariage became a normal relationship, people get married like they get girlfriends ....

instead of saving sex till mariage, people should save mariage till they're in love.

[Tied-Up]

instead of saving sex till mariage, people should save mariage till they're in love

at last, something I can agree with.

[a fan]

I don't know how old you are, but when you get out of school and into the real world, all the English and Science and Math crap serves no purpose.? Calculus and complex sentences won't do anything for you.? You need basic math...add, divide, multipy, substract...how is knowing how to find the area of a circle going to help you in life??

escuse me ?
not everybody wanna become a waiter or fast food cook
trust me there are million jobs out there that needs more than add and divide.
so please. math is great thing. so is any sciences. and i think that kids are already dumb enough with tv and music, they should learn harder stuff at school and see what REALLY is behind any difficult subject (math, quantum physics, philosophy ....)

about that abstinence thing.
i think sex is something you learn by your own, by your social activities and life

the only thing that we must teach kids : wear condoms. thats it.
the rest of it is their problem.

that mariage thing is BS. how in hell mariage solves everything. mariage became a normal relationship, people get married like they get girlfriends ....

instead of saving sex till mariage, people should save mariage till they're in love.

Yes, you need those things for college and college to get a good job, but unless you're in a field that requires you to use Calculus or advanced math everyday, you're not going to use that stuff outside of school (school includes college).? That's what I meant.?

And I agree with the rest of what you said.

[a fan]

I am all for knowledge, but I don't think that certain things should be taught in school.? I think that in today's society, it is very easy to learn about diseases and stuff...hell, the internet is right there, and there are lots of good shows on the health channel that talk about sex.? But I don't think school should teach that, for lots of reasons...first of all, look at school in general...it is a sugarcoated version of reality.? All the inspirational posters and people filling your head with generic crap.?

Yes, the internet is right there... and you should BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ ON THE INTERNET, RIGHT?? How about school teaching facts... unfettered facts.? School teaches facts... and also teaches discipline, and also teaches a student of LIFE how to discern fact from fiction.?

BTW the 'inspirational posters' are about spreading ideas.? Spreading good ideas help promote ways of positive ways of thinking.? There is nothing wrong with trying to promote positive ways of thinking, so long as it's not suggesting or promoting a code of moral ethics and is instead promoting a healthy learning atmosphere.

Just because you know how to obtain information, it doesn't mean that everyone has those same benefits.? Not everyone owns a computer.? Not everyone is previledged enough to have these things provided for them... for these people, their only source of knowledge is the few hours they spend a day in a classroom...

In Africa... there are people who believe that the way to cure aids is to have sex with a virgin.? But, yeah, in this day and age, everyone knows how this disease is spread.

No, school teaches inaccurate facts, and the few accurate facts that do teach are only tidbits and go into no detail...in other words, the truth but not the whole truth.  I'm not talking about Africa or third world countries.  And while not everyone has resources, they should have common sense.  School does not teach you about life...next thing you know, there will be classes on how to deal with married life, divorce, pregnancy, how to handle being a celebrity, what to do on a first date...