Poll: Bush Job Approval Dips to New Low

[SLCPUNK]

educated historians.

most would place him somewhere in the top 5 - 15 presidents ever.

"educated"

Reagan looked good and felt good, but was the President when we were convicted in the world court for "Acts of terrorism" against south America.

But, you condon senseless violence, so I'm sure you don't care about that either.

Too bad you don't have a kid you could ship off to Iraq to defend our freedoms......

[D]

read between the headlines?

dude I watched him say that out of his own mouth during the debates on TV, seriously how can u defend that?

he talked about the war and how it was a pointless basically stupid war then turned around and said that he wouldnt pull out of Iraq and would finish the job.

Sorry u cant fuckin do that.

[SLCPUNK]

read between the headlines?

dude I watched him say that out of his own mouth during the debates on TV, seriously how can u defend that?

he talked about the war and how it was a pointless basically stupid war then turned around and said that he wouldnt pull out of Iraq and would finish the job.

Sorry u cant fuckin do that.

He didn't put America in, Bush did. And even I agree (looking back) at that point, you could not pull out. You would have caused more harm than good (which ironically is what will happen anyway, there is no solution at this point).

He would have explored a different route rather than go to war and found it to be a tragic waste of human life. But Bush went in, and he proposed to clean it up. Pulling out would mean civil war, and/or insurgents taking over. It was a no-win situation to take head on. I would not have wanted it, it was/is the impossible conundrum.

[SLCPUNK]

The beginning of the end:


GOP lawmakers urge new Iraq tack
N.C. congressman wants timetable for withdrawal


Updated: 1:13 a.m. ET June 13, 2005WASHINGTON - A Republican congressman called for a deadline to pull U.S. troops from Iraq, while some other members of President George W. Bush?s party urged on Sunday that his administration come to grips with a persistent insurgency and revamp Iraq policy.

Rep. Walter Jones, a North Carolina conservative, said on ABC?s ?This Week? that he would offer legislation this week setting a timetable for the U.S. withdrawal from Iraq.

?I voted for the resolution to commit the troops, and I feel that we?ve done about as much as we can do,? said Jones, who coined the phrase ?freedom fries? to lash out at the French for opposing the Iraq invasion.

?Insurgency is alive and well?
Other Republicans on television talk shows joined Democrats in criticizing the administration for playing down the insurgency, while overestimating the ability of Iraq?s fledgling forces to fight without U.S. soldiers in the lead and failing to plan for the post-invasion occupation.

?The insurgency is alive and well. We underestimated the viability of the insurgency,? Sen. Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican, said on CBS? Face the Nation. He said the administration has ?been slow to adjust when it comes to troop strength and supporting our troops.?

Graham said the Army is contending with a serious shortfall in recruiting ?because this war is going sour in terms of word of mouth from parents and grandparents.? He said ?if we don?t adjust, public opinion is going to keep slipping away.?

Jones, a member of the House of Representatives Armed Services Committee, said ?primarily the neoconservatives? in the administration were to blame for flawed war planning.

?The reason of going in for weapons of mass destruction, the ability of the Iraqis to make a nuclear weapon, that?s all been proven that it was never there,? he said.

Jones joins some of Congress? most liberal Democrats in demanding a deadline to withdraw troops from a conflict they said has been too costly in U.S. lives and money.

Growing support for withdrawal
According to a new Gallup Poll, nearly six in 10 Americans say the United States should withdraw some or all of its troops from Iraq, up from 49 percent who held that view in February, USA Today reported in its Monday edition.

The Bush administration contends that setting a withdrawal date would fuel an insurgency that Vice President Dick Cheney recently said was in ?the last throes.?

Graham opposed setting a date. ?If the insurgents drive us out ... we?ve lost a big battle in the war on terror,? he said.

Jones said he was pushing the legislation because his ?heart aches? at the nearly 1,700 U.S. soldiers killed and 12,000 seriously wounded in Iraq. He said Iraqis should defend themselves once their forces are trained.

?A common theme?
Rep. Curt Weldon, a Pennsylvania Republican who just returned from Iraq, joined several Democrats saying the administration must be more candid and acknowledge that it could take about two years to train Iraqi forces to replace U.S. soldiers and allow a significant pullout.

?We can?t come back to America and have our people being convinced that the Iraqi troops are prepared to take over, when they?re not,? he said on NBC?s Meet the Press.

Weldon also said the administration must ?come to grips? with a rising insurgency, boosted by fighters from Syria and Iran, ?which for some reason our intelligence community does not want to acknowledge or deal with.?

Weldon said he heard ?a common theme? in Iraq that the largest number of foreign insurgents may be coming from Syria, but that ?Iran overwhelmingly has the quality behind the insurgency.?

Sen. Chuck Hagel, a Nebraska Republican, said on CNN?s Late Edition, that ?many of us warned this administration before we ever put a boot on the ground? that it would face a long-term conflict. ?We didn?t have plans for it. And we are now where we are,? he said.

[D]

Im speaking for casual voters who dont follow and read and really analyze things, to those people when Kerry said that, he lost a whole lot of votes.

the liberal media and Dan Rather pushing that story against Bush also really hurt the democratic party and Bush.

Bill Clinton said it best on TV the other night, he stated how the republican's are just better at the mud slinging and the character assassinations than the democracts.

He talked about how the democratic party has to stop playing the republicans games and get back to doing what being a democrat is all about and he thinks the party will be successful again.

idiots like Howard Dean are destroying even more of the party's credibility and he needs to be removed very very soon.

I will vote Hillary Clinton for president if she runs in 2008, I think she definitely has what it takes.

Hell i wouldve elected Bill Clinton for 8 more years if he couldve ran.

[SLCPUNK]

Hell i wouldve elected Bill Clinton for 8 more years if he couldve ran.

You will be if Hillary gets voted in. 

[D]

how fitting would it be for Bill to be the first man?

People love Bill Clinton, I love Bill Clinton and people will elect Hillary on the fact that they think they are getting bill for 4 more years alone.

of course she would be great anyway.

[SLCPUNK]

how fitting would it be for Bill to be the first man?

People love Bill Clinton, I love Bill Clinton and people will elect Hillary on the fact that they think they are getting bill for 4 more years alone.

of course she would be great anyway.

I hope she gets voted in. People hate her and have always hated her, because she is a woman.........who acts like a man. And that is a no-no in this society.

I see hardcore dems say they would not vote for her, so I wonder how it would turn out.

Bill is brilliant really. Brilliant because he knows how to talk to people, and he has a high level of international respect, which we desperately need.

We'll see. I think by '08, unless something amazing happens in the middle east, that there will be a huge shift to the left. My guess.

[SLCPUNK]

Here is a picture they got of her a few years back during a Senate break............

[Mal Brossard]

I was about to say Hillary can't run, as she already served two consecutive terms.  But my thunder has been stolen.

On that note, I'm not sure Hillary would be the best candidate.  What has wrecked the Democrats in 2000 and 2004 is the near-total lack of southern votes.  The South used to be an easy win for the Dems.  Now they lean more Republican, ever since the 1960's civil rights battles.  Most of all, the Southerners will favor a good ol' boy, no matter whether he's Republican or Democrat-- e.g. Clinton vs. Connecticut native Bush or midwesterner Dole.

I know, I know, Gore was a Southern boy who couldn't carry his own state.  They usually seem to lean more toward the candidate who "acts" more Southern.  You can see Bush dressed in Southern garb easily.  Not so much with Gore or Kerry.  Therefore, I think the Democrats would be better off running Edwards in 2008.  You may have noticed he seemed to disappear from Kerry's campaign as time went on, partially to save him from being associated with the sinking ship known as 2004.  If the Dems have any sense whatsoever, they'll run Edwards with Hillary or Obama as VP.

Edwards in '08 and '12.  Obama in '16 and '20.  Libertarian in 2024!!!!

[SLCPUNK]

I was about to say Hillary can't run, as she already served two consecutive terms.? But my thunder has been stolen.

On that note, I'm not sure Hillary would be the best candidate.? What has wrecked the Democrats in 2000 and 2004 is the near-total lack of southern votes.? The South used to be an easy win for the Dems.? Now they lean more Republican, ever since the 1960's civil rights battles.? Most of all, the Southerners will favor a good ol' boy, no matter whether he's Republican or Democrat-- e.g. Clinton vs. Connecticut native Bush or midwesterner Dole.

I know, I know, Gore was a Southern boy who couldn't carry his own state.? They usually seem to lean more toward the candidate who "acts" more Southern.? You can see Bush dressed in Southern garb easily.? Not so much with Gore or Kerry.? Therefore, I think the Democrats would be better off running Edwards in 2008.? You may have noticed he seemed to disappear from Kerry's campaign as time went on, partially to save him from being associated with the sinking ship known as 2004.? If the Dems have any sense whatsoever, they'll run Edwards with Hillary or Obama as VP.

Edwards in '08 and '12.? Obama in '16 and '20.? Libertarian in 2024!!!!

Yea, Gore looks like what he is: a total drip.

[D]

The great state of Tennessee is why we have had Bush for this long.

had Gore won his home state he wouldve been president.

I was hoping Gore wouldve ran again this time, he technically beat Bush the first go round so they shouldve gave him the rematch.

after the way Bush did his first 4 years, Gore wouldve been able to really kick his ass

He wouldve had some kick ass slogans he couldve brought up as well.


I have nothing against Democrats, like I said I am one but John Kerry was a horrible candidate in my opinion. I came -- this close to voting for Bush, Im not gonna lie, seriously I think we wouldve been in a bad way with either guys.

Another thing about Kerry I didnt like was his unilateral talks with N Korea, he wouldve totally alienated China by doing this and that wouldnt have been good since N Korea is like China's little brother.

What also fucked Gore and Kerry was having to follow Clinton.

Clinton was one of the most charismatic, amazing speakers to ever be president. Till this day when he gives an interview I sit my ass down and I dont turn the station even during commercials.

He has a mesmerizing light about him that just draws u in. Kerry and Gore were nowhere close to that and that hurt them in my opinion.

Kerry also talked about keeping jobs in the US which was great only that his wife's Heinz company does a lot of their shit overseas.

tiny little contradictions like that just sorta made u go hmmmmm.

The war thing still rings big to me though, had he just said he supported the war blah blah blah, I think he wouldve won

but voting for the war and then coming back and blaming Bush for the war made him look bad

now I know he wasnt blaming the war but how Bush was fighting the war, but casual voters dont take that in, they dont take the time to see it that way

by the media and everything else they see it as, Kerry voted for the war but now is bashing Bush over the war and it loses Kerry points.

Clinton said it on Greta whatever her name is on Fox News, he said the republicans are the masters of dirty politics, they are way better at it than the democracts, so democrats need to shy away from doing that themselves cause u cant beat them at what they do best.

Kerry went from having a nice lead in the polls to losing

what happened?

somewhere between there and the election, major mistakes were made.

Bush did an excellent job playing off the fear of americans to get re elected

[sandman]

hillary will be our next president. no doubt about it in my mind. (and this discussion is worthy of another thread).

bill clinton was a good president, not a great one. he did more for republicans than democrats. he was actually conservative on alot of issues. the problem is, he hurt his party.

hillary has never had an original thought in her life. she is a total politician. she's willing to do anything for her political career (like staying in her fake "marriage", and altering her "beliefs"). and the one thing she set her mind to and promised the american people while she was first lady (healthcare reform), she failed miserably.   

there will not be a shift to the left in this country. the exact opposite is happening. republicans have DOMINATED the national politial landscape for several years now, and polls show that most americans are NOT secularists. so the dems are scrambling to react.

just wait, soon enough you'll hear hillary making negative comments about abortion, and quoting the bible. oh wait, she already has! 

[SLCPUNK]

OK, I'll reword it.....

A shift away from the right...

Sound better?

Even republicans are shying away from the right after seeing the mess in Iraq right now.

[sandman]

OK, I'll reword it.....

A shift away from the right...

Sound better?

Even republicans are shying away from the right after seeing the mess in Iraq right now.

i see what you're saying. the dems will probably pick up a few spots in congress by next year. and i believe hillary will be the next president. so that sense there is a shift to the left.

BUT, i think the dems are shifting their beliefs to the right on "moral" issues (so they can court some moderate conservatives that are frustrated with some of the extreme ideas the republicans have been throwing out there lately).

it's all a game and it's all about gaining power and money. both sides are guilty of it. when bill clinton was in office, george stephanopolous worked for him. he had a daily conference call to provide updates on how he was using the media to make bill look better, and who in the republican party could they make look bad. and i'm sure the republicans have people doing the same thing.