Appetite for Production.

[Dead N' Bloated]

What GN'R albums do you think were the best and worst when it comes to the production.
I think TSI was the best produced album they had and I also thnk that the UYI albums were the worst.
TSI was mixed perfectly. Everything just sounds unreal where as UYI 1 N' 2 sounded good with the vocals and guitars but the thing that let GN'R down with UYI was the drums. There is barely any kick drum and the cymbles were hard to hear as well.
So what do You think?


 

[joeyramone]

couldnt agree more on the UYI drumming....ahhh matt..

[Axl_owns_dexter]

Great thread

Gotta go with

1. Speghetti Incident  (It sounded up to date and Matts drums rock for a change)
2. Lies  (You can't beat the acoustic side of lies, that is how music is supposed to sound, dropped picks and all  )
3. AFD (This is how rock and roll is supposed to sound, however the rhythm guitar is sometimes really hard to hear)
4. UYI II (Doesn't sound quite as dated as I)
5 UYI I (Sounds the most dated of the albums and tracks like Don't Damn Me and Dead Horse could have had a higher vocal mix)

[Rob]

Yeah, the UYIs could have sounded much better.  I blame the drum sound problems mainly on Matt.  Steven just does so much more when he's drumming.  Also the rythym guitar is sometimes non-existent...kinda like how they were live.  Izzy's guitar was always way too quiet.  However, I do think the bass sounds very good, as does Axl.  All the rest had fine production.

[coolman78SLASH]

As a musician and with some experience in production and sound, I dont think the problem with the drum sound was Matt's problem at all. His playing is good and proffessional (hey, the man has played drums for The Cult, GnR and VR for fucks sake) so if you feel there is something wrong, it's problaby how it was mixed.( I actually enjoy the mix on all albums, and the one I like least is TSI, but that's just my opinion) And remember that all the albums were made between 86 until 93, thats between 12 and 19 years ago. Studio/recording tech have come a lot further since then.... Just think how your PC or mobile phone looked like back then? ?

[Wooody]

Just think how your PC or mobile phone looked like back then? ?

Mine had a coconut attached. 

[Thorazine Shuffle]

In my opinion the reason why UYI 1&2 were so bad production-wise were due to over-production.  I just hope Axl has learned a thing or two or else I'm afraid that CD, provided we ever get it, will sound like UYI 1&2.

[loretian]

A lot of people feel that UYI's were overproduced, but I disagree.  I think they were underproduced.  There's a lot more to the songs, and there is more production work, but the production work was never taken to the level that it needed to be taken to.  November Rain and Estranged are the two best sounding songs, production wise, imo, and you can tell they put a lot of effort into how they sound, and it works.  If the rest of the songs had the same treatment, I believe they would sound better.

As far as Matt Sorum's drumming, I don't really like it on UYI, but like Axl himself said, they were asking him to play in Steven's style, which he just doesn't sound that great doing.  Conversely, when he plays his own style, like in VR, his drumming sounds fantastic.

[nesquick]

the problem with matt drums is that it sounded too loud and too "metal" for a GNR. on 14 years and yesterday, the drums is much too loud compared to the rest of the song. Steven drums sounded perfect for appetite and Brain sounds great for the momment (live).

[AxemanOnFire]

1. GN'R Lies 'acoustic' side - It's not acoustic really, but holy shit it's good. And carefully underproduced. It sounds almost like they all sat in a circle and just jammed. Nothing silly or unnecessary, making it so much more powerful. The key here is that it lets the songs breathe.

2. Appetite for Destruction - A slice of Sunset Boulevard sleaze, and it's produced to reflect that. Raw and uncompromising, but on a technical side the bass and rhythmn guitar could be louder. Something to take into consideration, then, when it comes to producing the inevitable 20th-aniversary special rerelease.

3. "The Spaghetti Incident?" - Raw, punk-rocky album. Exactly the record they needed to release after Use Your Illusion. Gilby acquits himself brilliantly in what was (unfortunately) his only studio recording with Guns, showing himself to be while not better than Izzy (he's a lead guitarist at heart), certainly a fine replacement. Shame about some of the songs they chose (Since I Don't Have You? What the fuck?).

4. Live Like A Suicide/GN'R Lies side 1 - It should really be 'Dead Like a McDonald's Hamburger', since it has those crowd noises and shit added, but apart from those unfortunate 'Crowd Goes Nuts' overdubs and that fucking roadie at the start of Reckless Life, it's raw like Appetite, but could really have done with some proper studio time to smoothe the rough edges (some of Axl's screaming really grates). Good, though, considering it was recorded for next to nothing.

5. Use Your Illusion I - Ranked higher than it's sister because of Coma and November Rain (the only songs on the two albums that benefit from lavish production), it was horribly overproduced, almost ruining the whole album. It wins a few points, however, for Garden of Eden, which is a 101 lesson in saying 'fuck you!' in rock'n'roll despite the fact you're using synthsisers.

6. Sypathy for the Devil Single - "Save us, Goat-Boy!"

7. Use Your Illusion II - Estranged is utterly ruined by overproduction, string orchestras and whatnot here. What could have been a poweful ballad is turned instead into an excersize in self-indulgence. Loses all credibility with My World, a pathetic piece of studio-orientated Eurotrash crap, which will hopefully be left off any future rerelease.

[Voodoochild]

Wow, Estranged ruined? Are you nuts? I know there's problems with the mix (Izzy almost inaudible), but it's a piano oriented and that sounds just fine along with Slash's lead.

I guess the rhythm guitar on AFD is just fine. I can hear both Izzy and Slash very well, wich didn't happen in the Illusions albums at all. Same with Lies, One In A Million and You're Crazy sounds amazing with the two-accoustic + eletric guitar set. The drums and bass sounds were easier to mix, though.

I actually like the mix in SFTD. I'm one of the few who really liked the Tobias/Slash duo. But I can't hear Duff and Axl as quite as I would like.

[AxemanOnFire]

But that's it. As a piano/lead guitar melody goes, it's spectacular. But that's buried in strings, synth, keyboards and stuff. Then there was the video, which in it's own way was ludicrously overproduced. Why the fucking oil tanker, and the dolphins? Do we really need the band in rescue boats, helicopters and things, as Slash emerges from the sea? Painful viewing.

SFTD - Excuse the awful metaphor, but imagine you've got Pele (in his prime) in your team, and you replace him with Wayne Rooney. Sure, Rooney's good, but you had Pele before. Gilby is Pele and Tobias is Wayne Rooney. He's good, but no great. And they fucked up the song's intro with sound effects.

[Jamie]

1. GN'R Lies 'acoustic' side - It sounds almost like they all sat in a circle and just jammed.

According to the producer; on BTM that's what they did.

[Sakib]

in order of best production, i'd put;

TSI
LIES
AFD
UYI 2
UYI 1

On appetite i find the bass hard 2 hear. the second half of lies is gr8. UYI 1 is wierd cuz u but it on a low volume and it sounds loud still

[Voodoochild]

Then there was the video, which in it's own way was ludicrously overproduced. Why the fucking oil tanker, and the dolphins? Do we really need the band in rescue boats, helicopters and things, as Slash emerges from the sea? Painful viewing.

We're talkin' about the albums... You can't judge the sound of the song by its video.

SFTD - Excuse the awful metaphor, but imagine you've got Pele (in his prime) in your team, and you replace him with Wayne Rooney. Sure, Rooney's good, but you had Pele before. Gilby is Pele and Tobias is Wayne Rooney. He's good, but no great. And they fucked up the song's intro with sound effects.

No way in hell! I know, Tobias is not that great... But Gilby was only the power-chords guy. Paul at least did some guitar work a la Izzy, while Gilby only played bars and act like a rockstar in the stage - and that's all. And what sound effects in the intro are you talking about?

[nesquick]

Estranged is utterly ruined by overproduction, string orchestras and whatnot here. What could have been a poweful ballad is turned instead into an excersize in self-indulgence.

WHAT?? are you fine tonight? EStranged is fantastic the way it is!

[smith13]

uyi's 1@2 were missing something they rocked but just did not have the afd grit

[jameslofton29]

I agree with the guy who said Illusions was way overproduced. This is strange, considering the fact that GNR only spent two years on the project. CD will probably suffer a similar or worse fate. CD will probably be like Def Leppard's 'Hysteria': A good album, but overproduced to the extreme. The album could have been a timeless classic if they hadn't spent years trying to perfect it. Instead, it wound up sounding VERY dated. When you hear it, all you think of is 80's cheese.

[Dust N Rose]

I don't understand exactly what's bad in overproducing, really! 

[AxemanOnFire]

Then there was the video, which in it's own way was ludicrously overproduced. Why the fucking oil tanker, and the dolphins? Do we really need the band in rescue boats, helicopters and things, as Slash emerges from the sea? Painful viewing.

We're talkin' about the albums... You can't judge the sound of the song by its video.

Fair point.

SFTD - Excuse the awful metaphor, but imagine you've got Pele (in his prime) in your team, and you replace him with Wayne Rooney. Sure, Rooney's good, but you had Pele before. Gilby is Pele and Tobias is Wayne Rooney. He's good, but no great. And they fucked up the song's intro with sound effects.

No way in hell! I know, Tobias is not that great... But Gilby was only the power-chords guy. Paul at least did some guitar work a la Izzy, while Gilby only played bars and act like a rockstar in the stage - and that's all. And what sound effects in the intro are you talking about?

He 'only played power chords'? Newsflash darling - that's what punk rock is all about! Those guys were trying to get rid of long guitar solos and complex song structures in favour of 3-minute songs with a few power chords slammed together and a badass attitude. Have you listened to his Wild Horses solo spots on the Illusion tour? Yowsa! Probably one of the best Stones covers (it counts as a cover in my opinion, even though it's really a guitar solo based on the song) ever. And I'm confusing the intro with the coda. The weird-ass samples and "Don't forget to drink your milk" and shit.

I remember them saying it now, Jamie, but thanks. Must've been magic to watch them.

And Nesquick, I feel perfectly fine, thanks. And Estranged is still an overproduced mess. The tragedy is, it's a great song. Slash is absolutely blistering throughout, the piano works magnificently with the guitars and drums, and Axl puts in a spectacular performance and even better lyrics. But the swirling orchestral stuff shouldn't be there. Hell, I'm not even against hard rock or heavy metal bands employing classical orchestras (Metallica, while I'm not a huge fan, pulled it off brilliantly). November Rain I could just about accept, because they string section seemed to fit in there, but with Estranged it all just seemed like unnecessary self indulgence. Like he was trying desperately to make it an epic, to do GN'R's Stairway to Heaven.