Has the bar been raised?

[Izzy]

In the last year or so there have been several excellent new albums released.? New ones by U2, Radiohead, NIN, SOAD, Audioslave, and with the Foos and White Stripes on the way.? Have these new albums raised the bar for Axl?? Especially, NIN and SOAD because Axl is a fan of both.? Does this add pressure to succeed??

What do you guys think?

Yes. Good albums

Axl could put out an album of snooring and beat those

[gilld1]

Yeah, that's very cool, what kind of work? ?

[Jamie]

I'll be surprised if democracy is better then greenDays "American Idiot" album (not the song , the whole album)

IMHO that was easily the best rock album I've heard in the last couple years.

i'll be very happy if it's on par with American Idiot - the best rock album since Soundgardens 'Superunknown' IMO ( Elephant by the White Stripes being another notable rock album in recent years)

I will be very very very very very upset if Chinese Democracy ISN'T on par with absolutely ANYTHING Green Day have ever done.

[McGann]

I like "Civil War"
But political music?
Pretentious to me.

I think protest songs
Are overly simplistic
Almost all the time.

There are albums like
"American Idiot"
That have good music

And sound I enjoy
But are lyrically pablum
Not my cup of tea.

It's easy to say
"I am for or against this
There's no need for facts."

Axl, oftentimes,
Bares soul and deep emotion
And means more to me.

Just my opinion,
I respect yours, too, of course,
So please, "Don't Damn Me."


Splash


/Mike


]

[Saul]

I like "Civil War"
But political music?
Pretentious to me.

I think protest songs
Are overly simplistic
Almost all the time.

There are albums like
"American Idiot"
That have good music

And sound I enjoy
But are lyrically pablum
Not my cup of tea.

It's easy to say
"I am for or against this
There's no need for facts."

Axl, oftentimes,
Bares soul and deep emotion
And means more to me.

Just my opinion,
I respect yours, too, of course,
So please, "Don't Damn Me."


Splash


/Mike


]

American Idiot isnt simply some anto war type album to say the VERY least. The lyrics all tie together every song into a story that involves hope , struggle , illusion , addiction , despair and hope ... it's pretty easy to dismiss greenday based on earlier work by the band but this new album is far and above anything the band has done before.

Again , I'll be surprised and happy if democracy has any songs on it of the caliber of jesus of suburbia and/or homecoming.

And if you are dissing american idiot without even listening to the album in full then shame on you. ignorance is nasty.

[McGann]

I've heard the album
And I greatly enjoyed it!
I'm just subjective.

/Mike

[Buddha_Master]

Anyone who thinks NIN is crap can suck a fart from my asshole.

Listen to With Teeth in 5.1, then say that. If you still think so, then put down the disc and just admit that music isn't for you anymore.

This alone has totally raised the bar. On the basic level, the production quality and crispness, fidelity, low levels, and the overall soundstage, far exceeds anything coming from any of these bands mentioned. The music on this album is great, and if it doesn't win some awards for album of the year, then it will be a crime.

Its time to be cutting edge, and Chinese Democracy better be on the forefront. GNR dvds have been insulting and CD needs to erase some of the mistakes that have been coming from the GNR camp (no matter how few and far between they have been).

There is no excuse for Beatles music (reissued, remastered) to sound better, and make better use of technology, than a brand new product.

Of course music is the most important thing, but if its dated, it won't make the impact it deserves. NIN latest release not only appears in the typical music mags, but are also featured in sound and vision, because of its use of technology (the dual-disc 5.1 sound, I talked about before). Its something special, as Chinese D needs to be respectfully.

Yea the bar has been raised. And if you don't think so, you need to get your ears checked.

[Falcon]

Yea the bar has been raised. And if you don't think so, you need to get your ears checked.

I have to agree, I haven't taken "With Teeth" out of the player since I bought it, pure genius.

Reznor's single vision and focus never cease to amaze me.

I've always thought Axl would have loved to have a Reznor like existence. The Wizard behind the curtain
persona, I just don't know if he has the creative know how or resolve to ever be the guy.  His best work has always been done with a creative foil..

[ClintroN]

i honestly think Axl would be injoying some of the music out today, but i dont think he would be out there gettin' albums to hear his opponantes

but this isnt the game, the game is to get the fuckin' record company to stop being fuck wits and having mediocre songs and timing for radio play n' all that bullshit.!!!!

Where have our epic songs gone, cut into fuckin' 2 because of these pricks. This n' all that kind of crape is what i think is the? main battle with Axl and Geffen or whoever the fuck he is dueling it out with!!!!!

Chinese Democracy will blow the bar outta the fucking water so huge it'll be a nuclear blast!
N' the music industry was never the same.............

then...........the follow up

[jameslofton29]

Falcon, that was one of your best posts ever!! I completely agree with your Reznor/Axl comparison. Although I like Axl MUCH more than Trent, I dont think Axl could ever do the things that Reznor is capable of. As the years go by with nothing from Axl, it becomes apparent that without some sort of genius helping him, he is just incapable of taking a stand and writing something thats brilliant and cutting edge. I have nothing against Axl. He's my favorite singer of all time. There will NEVER be another one like him. He was the voice of genius, but not genius himself. He needs extreme talent to back him up. Which he had from 87-91.

[ClintroN]

He needs extreme talent to back him up. Which he had from 87-91.

excuse me, i believe THE extreme talent belongs to this era boy!!

[The Estranged MrFlashbax]

I like "Civil War"
But political music?
Pretentious to me.

I think protest songs
Are overly simplistic
Almost all the time.

There are albums like
"American Idiot"
That have good music

And sound I enjoy
But are lyrically pablum
Not my cup of tea.

It's easy to say
"I am for or against this
There's no need for facts."

Axl, oftentimes,
Bares soul and deep emotion
And means more to me.

Just my opinion,
I respect yours, too, of course,
So please, "Don't Damn Me."


Splash


/Mike


]

i see what you're saying but i'd much rather have a guy singing about corrupion rather than how his girlfriend left him..

[younggunner]

I've always thought Axl would have loved to have a Reznor like existence. The Wizard behind the curtain
persona, I just don't know if he has the creative know how or resolve to ever be the guy.  His best work has always been done with a creative foil..

I highly doubt Axl wants to be like Reznor. In reality, Axl has had that behind the curtain personaility for the past 11 yrs. Im pretty sure Axl is proud of what he has accomplished with the old band and how they were and what they stood for. ANd Im sure Axl is comfortable with what he is doing for the past decade and how he is percieved.

Just because the guy likes different kinds of music doesnt mean he wants to be like them. If Axl wasnt curious about other types of music he wouldnt be Axl and the music he takes part in wouldnt be as good.

[madagas]

Falcon, I see absolutely no genius in any of the lyrics on With Teeth-outside of Right Where It Belongs. In fact, it is really very elementary poetry with every lyric expected and predictable-not to mention regurgitated from all prior Nails records. I will agree the bar has been raised on a sound and production level. The guy is a tech head. Axl most certainly is not on that level. Now to the focus part of your statement-The Fragile was focused? You have to be kidding me. It was just as much a mess as the Illusions. Part genius-part should have never been released. Finally, I will agree Reznor is a more complete and self sufficient artist than Axl, but that does not mean that the products he has released are any better than the products Axl has released. In fact, I would call it about even-assuming Chinese comes out. Let's hope Rose uses With Teeth as an example for sound and focus (limiting the tracklist to a tidy 12 songs). But again, if Rose can't top this lyrically and diversification wise, this boy will be highly disappointed.

[Falcon]

In reality, Axl has had that behind the curtain personaility for the past 11 yrs.

To a degree, maybe. ?That said, he doesn't have the musical output/respect/perception a guy like Reznor does over the 11 years so he's actually "just behind the curtain", Wizard status pending.

ANd Im sure Axl is comfortable with what he is doing for the past decade and how he is percieved.

I doubt he's at all comfortable with the way he's perceived at this point in time, the general publics last look at him in 02 wasn't exactly well received, tons of negativity in general about his look, failed tour etc...

Just because the guy likes different kinds of music doesnt mean he wants to be like them. ?

Understood.

But...

By all accounts he's very particular and apparently has the final word in all things GNR, much like a Reznor type, albeit without the ability to put his vision together as a single entity.

[Falcon]

Falcon, I see absolutely no genius in any of the lyrics on With Teeth-outside of Right Where It Belongs. In fact, it is really very elementary poetry with every lyric expected and predictable-not to mention regurgitated from all prior Nails records.

That's you opinion and you're entitled to it.

Now to the focus part of your statement-The Fragile was focused?

I never mentioned "The Fragile"..

[madagas]

Falcon, you talked about him being a focused artist. The Fragile is a part of his work and is not very focused! Now, I'm nitpicking of course. AS far as his lyrics go, the consensus critical analysis and PERCEPTION is that his lyrics are very predictable and cover the same subject matter (a theory to which I subscribe). I am just using your perception argument that constantly comes up when you describe Axl and how he is perceived. Remember, you are the one that seems to believe perception is reality! Just kidding, but you do use that argument ALL the time.

[younggunner]

That said, he doesn't have the musical output/respect/perception a guy like Reznor does over the 11 years so he's actually "just behind the curtain", Wizard status pending.

Doesnt have the respect? You act as if Reznor is Gods gift to music. Reznor is great and so is Axl. As for respect..Axl doesnt get respect? Look at any rock countdown list. You'll see GNr or Axl at the top of almost all of them. When Brian May praises Axl, what do you call that. Axl has gotten tons of "respect" over the years....

I doubt he's at all comfortable with the way he's perceived at this point in time, the general publics last look at him in 02 wasn't exactly well received, tons of negativity in general about his look, failed tour etc...

Is Axl happy with how hes percieved nowadays...I doubt it. But that doesnt mean hes not comfortable. Of course he wants to be looked upon as more of a positive. But Axls a big boy. He understands hes made his own bed. Im pretty sure hes not too worried though. Hes living his life and making the music he wants to make. If he has to take a few punchline jokes during the wait im sure hes ok with that.

By all accounts he's very particular and apparently has the final word in all things GNR, much like a Reznor type, albeit without the ability to put his vision together as a single entity.

Hes had the same attitude pre Reznor. SO maybe Reznor is the Axl type? Reznor and Axl have different methods of working. Axl is a frontman of a band trying to steer the ship. Reznor is a solo artist steering his own ship. If it was announced on this board that none of the material on CD originated from the new members and it was all Axl, half the peopel here would go crazy and say ?its not a band yada yada yada. Axl and Trent might be similar on some levels but they are different on others.

Lets not forget Axl helped NIN get more into the mainstream by letting him open for GNr back in the day. Lets not forget Axl liked NIN before they got huge. My point is Axl has an ear for good things. It doesnt mean he wants to imitate a particular genre...he just isnt close minded and lets all kinds of things/music inspire him so that he could push his own music...heres a great quote for you that sums it up.....

I don?t enjoy being imitated; I?d rather inspire than be imitated. If we can inspire some people to take it to the next step, -Axl Rose

[mikegiuliana]

why does everyone love trent reznor..? I think he is a good singer but nothing to get bent over.. I heard the newest single played on the radio and it bored the hell out of me..

As for cd I never had high expectations when I first heard about it during the oh my god era, but I have such a higher expectation now because of all the artists that worked on it and all the tweaking we have heard about and the fact it has taken so long.. Otherwise a good solid album would have been sufficent as long as touring followed.. My biggest concern is if it will ever come out.. I am to the point where I feel like it never will.. When you read tommy joined in 98, robin in 97 it makes you say how can they not have anything but Oh My God out?

[Falcon]

Doesnt have the respect?

I didn't say that.? I said not respected/perceived in same way as Reznor.?
Do you see Trent getting lampooned on SNL, comedy Central and whatnot?
I didn't think so.

You act as if Reznor is Gods gift to music.

Hardly.?

Absolutely highly influential and resposible for bringing industral music to the masses.? A definite visionary.

Look at any rock countdown list. You'll see GNr or Axl at the top of almost all of them.

I've GNR atop a few good lists, I've seen Axl on some very unflattering lists as well...

If he has to take a few punchline jokes during the wait im sure hes ok with that.

Didn't he lash out at Conan in '02?? Hardly "OK" with it.

Axl and Trent might be similar on some levels but they are different on others.

Yes they are, and it is my opinion Axl would enjoy a Reznor like perception.? Just speculation.

Lets not forget Axl liked NIN before they got huge.

Well, so did I.?

I don?t enjoy being imitated; I?d rather inspire than be imitated. If we can inspire some people to take it to the next step, -Axl Rose

That's good sentiment, shared by many artists I'm sure.