House Defies Bush, Approves Stem Cell Bill

[GnRNightrain]

How do gang murders in the inner city affect your life on a daily basis? ?How does people dying of AIDS in Africa affect your life on a daily basis? ?How does global warming affect your life on a daily basis?

Somehow we care about these things. ?Just because something doesnt affect your life doesnt mean you shouldnt care about it or try and do something to stop it. ?In fact, I would think we have somewhat of an obligation if we think it is morally wrong.

Gang murders, people dying of AIDS, global warming etc are not issues I am speaking out against and making judgements on.

Gay marriage, and abortion are issues that you guys are against. So I ask, how does it affect your life? Plain and simple...it does not.

You are under the assumption that all people consider gay marriage and abortion to fall under the same column as murder, AIDS etc? Are you serious?

You try to put it back in my lap with a piss poor analogy.

Yet, none of you guys have answered the simple question.

How does it affect your life? How does it make your life worse or better?

It doesn't. Straight up. Two gay men getting married affects my life no differently then does you.

A young woman you can not afford a child and (sadly) chooses abortion, does not affect me any more than it would affect you.

Mind your own business.

You may not like the analogy, but these things certainly affect us as much of many other things that we care about.  How does the bad employment practices of the guy in Florida affect you on a daily basis?  Didnt you find it necessary to try and fix it?  Is that because you are opposed to bad working conditions?

Certainly if you believe that a fetus is life, then it affects your life just as much as someone dying from AIDS in a different country.  In fact, probably more since abortion happens in the US.

As for Gay marriage, most would argue that by allowing Gay Marriage it degrades the institution of marriage, which many people are a part of.  That has a direct effect on lessening the sanctity of the overall institution of marriage that they are apart of. 

[SLCPUNK]

Certainly if you believe that a fetus is life, then it affects your life just as much as someone dying from AIDS in a different country.  In fact, probably more since abortion happens in the US.

How does it affect your life if somebody has an abortion in Kansas?

Answer: It does not.

AIDS is considered a disease that kills people around the world.

Abortion is a choice a woman has to a terminate an unwanted pregnancy.

Different and can't be compared. What are you talking about?

Answer my question.

Dont' just say "they can affect you both as much." That is not answering my question.


As for Gay marriage, most would argue that by allowing Gay Marriage it degrades the institution of marriage, which many people are a part of.  That has a direct effect on lessening the sanctity of the overall institution of marriage that they are apart of

It degrades it how? This is the slippery slope argument and not accepted.

The institute is pretty much been degraded by the 50-60% divorce rate we already have in this country anyway.

How does this have a direct effect on lessening the "sanctity of the overall institution of marriage" ?

How does it affect you if two men get married in Florida? How does it affect you and your girlfriend if you decide to get married?

Does it mean your marriage, your vows (that you say) mean any less to one another? Or that your dedication to one another mean less?

Answer: No.

[GnRNightrain]

Certainly if you believe that a fetus is life, then it affects your life just as much as someone dying from AIDS in a different country.? In fact, probably more since abortion happens in the US.

How does it affect your life if somebody has an abortion in Kansas?

Answer: It does not.

AIDS is considered a disease that kills people around the world.

Abortion is a choice a woman has to a terminate an unwanted pregnancy.

What if you think that a fetus is a human?  Then isnt that killing tons of people?

Different and can't be compared. What are you talking about?

You really dont see the similarity?  It seems pretty darn similar to me.  Especially in the context we are talking about.

Answer my question.

Dont' just say "they can affect you both as much." That is not answering my question.

Actually it is.  I just dont think you understand or just dont like the answer.  Just because something doesnt affect you personally doesnt mean that you shouldnt care about it.  Why cant you understand this?  We all live in this world together, dont we have somewhat of an obligation to help others and do what we think is morally right?

As for Gay marriage, most would argue that by allowing Gay Marriage it degrades the institution of marriage, which many people are a part of.? That has a direct effect on lessening the sanctity of the overall institution of marriage that they are apart of

It degrades it how? This is the slippery slope argument and not accepted.

How is this a slippery slope argument?  Regardless, sometimes slipery slopes are valid arguments.

The institute is pretty much been degraded by the 50-60% divorce rate we already have in this country anyway.

You always talk about illogical arguments.  This argument is one that I have never understood and is clearly illogical.  Your response to people that want to protect the sanctity of marriage is to say that it ha already been degraded.  Shouldnt that mean that we shouldnt do something to degrade it more?  I would think if anything this means that we should go the other way and try to fix divorce, instead of using divorce as a means to justify degrading it more.

How does it affect you if two men get married in Florida? How does it affect you and your girlfriend if you decide to get married?

You clearly didnt read the last post.  Instead of writing it again: SEE Last Post.

[hyperionmax2003]

Just a guess but are you (SLCPUNK ) one of them insane Liberals?  It sure sounds like it...

[SLCPUNK]

Actually it is.  I just dont think you understand or just dont like the answer.  Just because something doesnt affect you personally doesnt mean that you shouldnt care about it.  Why cant you understand this?  We all live in this world together, dont we have somewhat of an obligation to help others and do what we think is morally right?



You need to understand is caring about something and having something affect you, are two DIFFERENT things.

If Taxes are raised that affects you.

If a hail  storm causes damage to your car, that affects you.

If a girl has an abortion in Florida....that don't affect you.


You always talk about illogical arguments.  This argument is one that I have never understood and is clearly illogical.  Your response to people that want to protect the sanctity of marriage is to say that it ha already been degraded.  Shouldnt that mean that we shouldnt do something to degrade it more?  I would think if anything this means that we should go the other way and try to fix divorce, instead of using divorce as a means to justify degrading it more.

No, I talk about logical fallacies. Something you are good at.

You are not answering my question. You are trying to muddy the argument here. Which, ironically, is a logical fallacy. The argument is not if marriage is being degraded by gays, or our divorce rate, but if it affects your marriage, or your life. Which is does not.

You are unable to answer my question, because you know the truth is that gay marriage and abortion does not affect you (that is: change your life in anyway shape or form. "Caring" about something does not count as "being affected". Use a dictionary; and I'm sure as shit you don't lose any sleep over AIDS babies in Africa, or abortions either, so fuckin' spare me.) at all.

I can say that the high divorce rate in this country...does not affect me, or my marriage. Even though, by your words that it has degraded institute of marriage. Any rational person can see this.

[conny]

Sure gay marriage, abortion and cloning doesn't affect my personal everyday life much - but it has a huge effect on the society that I'm living in - and so one way or the other it all comes back to me, indirectly affecting my life, and also having a huge effect on following generations.

I could not give a fuck about America's politics - it's not my fucking country. I could give a fuck about some sicko fucking little kids - it's not my fucking family. I could give a fuck about my neighbour dying off HIV - it's not my fucking disease. I could give a fuck about tsunamis, earthquakes and the rain forest - that's all a million miles away from where I live.

But that's not how it works. People not giving a fuck about anything is the whole problem in our society. Everyone sits and watch UNTIL it affects his/her personal life - but then it's too late.

[GnRNightrain]

Sure gay marriage, abortion and cloning doesn't affect my personal everyday life much - but it has a huge effect on the society that I'm living in - and so one way or the other it all comes back to me, indirectly affecting my life, and also having a huge effect on following generations.

I could not give a fuck about America's politics - it's not my fucking country. I could give a fuck about some sicko fucking little kids - it's not my fucking family. I could give a fuck about my neighbour dying off HIV - it's not my fucking disease. I could give a fuck about tsunamis, earthquakes and the rain forest - that's all a million miles away from where I live.

But that's not how it works. People not giving a fuck about anything is the whole problem in our society. Everyone sits and watch UNTIL it affects his/her personal life - but then it's too late.

SLC understands the indirect effect of taxes, but fails to see the indirect effect of other things.  Now tell me SLC, how has the money spent on the war affected you?  Has it raised your taxes?  Has the government spent money that otherwise would have been spent in a social program to you?  It is the same thing, but as usual you remain stubborn.

[sandman]

slcpunk - does soldiers dying in iraq have a direct effect on you?

i know you're just still holding alot of anger and anxiety over last november's election. but don't worry, you only have to deal with bush for three and half more years. and then hillary will be prez, so you'll be able to relax a little.

[SLCPUNK]

Sure gay marriage, abortion and cloning doesn't affect my personal everyday life much - but it has a huge effect on the society that I'm living in - and so one way or the other it all comes back to me, indirectly affecting my life, and also having a huge effect on following generations.

I could not give a fuck about America's politics - it's not my fucking country. I could give a fuck about some sicko fucking little kids - it's not my fucking family. I could give a fuck about my neighbour dying off HIV - it's not my fucking disease. I could give a fuck about tsunamis, earthquakes and the rain forest - that's all a million miles away from where I live.

But that's not how it works. People not giving a fuck about anything is the whole problem in our society. Everyone sits and watch UNTIL it affects his/her personal life - but then it's too late.

SLC understands the indirect effect of taxes, but fails to see the indirect effect of other things.? Now tell me SLC, how has the money spent on the war affected you?? Has it raised your taxes?? Has the government spent money that otherwise would have been spent in a social program to you?? It is the same thing, but as usual you remain stubborn.

Again you stick to your same BS thought process.

Abortion and gay marriage is not under the same category as WAR. It may be to you, because you are a twisted person. But to me, waging war on another country and a woman's right to have an abortion is not in the same category.

Get it?

Yoiu refuse to seperate the two, because if you would , your bullshit analogy would fall apart.

And if you wanna be smart about it....Yes the "war" in Iraq is a complete waste of our tax payer money and I have a right to speak up about it. You know how many senior citizens we could provide medical care for with that money? How much more money we could pump into public education for children?

What does two gay men getting married take away from society? Nothing, nada, zip. Only people like you lose sleep over two same-sex partners dedicating their love and life to one another. But, besides your sleep pattern, it does not take away from spending on education or medicine for the old.

Again. You two guys are telling me that you lay awake just tormenting about the AIDS deaths in Africa and abortions performed in this country? haha, yea sure you do. You two are so full of shit it is amazing. You sit and call me a bleeding heart liberal, yet pull that out as soon as you feel the need.

What deep morals you men have. To protect the unborn from a legal activity and to protect the institute of marriage from all the gays who are trying to destroy it. What a couple of bullshit, bleeding-hearts-when-you-need-it-blow-hards. Gimmie a fuckin' break.

You think blowing up civilians is just "collateral damage" but gay men getting married is destroying the moral fabric in this society?

You both need to get your fuckin' heads checked!!!!!

[SLCPUNK]

slcpunk - does soldiers dying in iraq have a direct effect on you?

i know you're just still holding alot of anger and anxiety over last november's election. but don't worry, you only have to deal with bush for three and half more years. and then hillary will be prez, so you'll be able to relax a little.

I've already addressed your question last night, but you don't read (well).

No anger....

As usual you aren't to answer my questions so you drop the discussion down a few notches and say childish things.

To put you in perspective:

[GnRNightrain]

Sure gay marriage, abortion and cloning doesn't affect my personal everyday life much - but it has a huge effect on the society that I'm living in - and so one way or the other it all comes back to me, indirectly affecting my life, and also having a huge effect on following generations.

I could not give a fuck about America's politics - it's not my fucking country. I could give a fuck about some sicko fucking little kids - it's not my fucking family. I could give a fuck about my neighbour dying off HIV - it's not my fucking disease. I could give a fuck about tsunamis, earthquakes and the rain forest - that's all a million miles away from where I live.

But that's not how it works. People not giving a fuck about anything is the whole problem in our society. Everyone sits and watch UNTIL it affects his/her personal life - but then it's too late.

SLC understands the indirect effect of taxes, but fails to see the indirect effect of other things.? Now tell me SLC, how has the money spent on the war affected you?? Has it raised your taxes?? Has the government spent money that otherwise would have been spent in a social program to you?? It is the same thing, but as usual you remain stubborn.

Again you stick to your same BS thought process.

Abortion and gay marriage is not under the same category as WAR. It may be to you, because you are a twisted person. But to me, waging war on another country and a woman's right to have an abortion is not in the same category.

Get it?

Yoiu refuse to seperate the two, because if you would , your bullshit analogy would fall apart.

And if you wanna be smart about it....Yes the "war" in Iraq is a complete waste of our tax payer money and I have a right to speak up about it. You know how many senior citizens we could provide medical care for with that money? How much more money we could pump into public education for children?

What does two gay men getting married take away from society? Nothing, nada, zip. Only people like you lose sleep over two same-sex partners dedicating their love and life to one another. But, besides your sleep pattern, it does not take away from spending on education or medicine for the old.

Again. You two guys are telling me that you lay awake just tormenting about the AIDS deaths in Africa and abortions performed in this country? haha, yea sure you do. You two are so full of shit it is amazing. You sit and call me a bleeding heart liberal, yet pull that out as soon as you feel the need.

What deep morals you men have. To protect the unborn from a legal activity and to protect the institute of marriage from all the gays who are trying to destroy it. What a couple of bullshit, bleeding-hearts-when-you-need-it-blow-hards. Gimmie a fuckin' break.

You think blowing up civilians is just "collateral damage" but gay men getting married is destroying the moral fabric in this society?

You both need to get your fuckin' heads checked!!!!!

You are ridiculous, you just cannot follow an argument.  You went all over the place in your post, so let me clear some stuff up.

We never said the war doesnt affect you.  We never said that we sit in bed all night awake over AIDS in Africa.  What we did say is that they all have an indirect effect on us, albeit some greater than others.  You simply cant follow the argument, which is completely logical and valid to anyone that is literate.  Your only reaction is to compare war to AIDS, and war to homosexuality and say that War is far worse.  Well no shit.  We are not saying it isnt.  But that was never the question.  The question was whether it affects us at all.  You were claiming that we had no valid reason to worry about that stuff (abortion and homosexuality) because it doesnt affect us on a daily basis.  The answer to misguided statement is that it has no less of an effect on our daily lives then the war that you bitch about every single day on this board.  In addition, regardless of whether it has an effect on our daily lives, it doesnt mean that we shouldnt do something to try and cure it.  If we only tried to fix things that affected our daily lives, then millions would die and starve and the world would be a complete shit hole.  Hopefully, that was more clear for you.  One last thing, we never said that people dying was collateral damages and less important than Gay Marriage and the moral fabric of society.  More you to insinuate that we said that is offensive, and shows that either you are completely misguided and dont know how to read, or that you stoop to low levels and misconstrue our arguments when you feel that you are losing.

[SLCPUNK]

We never said that we sit in bed all night awake over AIDS in Africa.

Nah....really? Ya don't say? 


 Your only reaction is to compare war to AIDS, and war to homosexuality and say that War is far worse.

You can't be this stupid.

 You were claiming that we had no valid reason to worry about that stuff (abortion and homosexuality) because it doesnt affect us on a daily basis.

Again, I repeat, worrying about something does not mean it affects your life. Like I said before, I am just sure you two lay around worrying about all these issues you cling to in these arguments. (Hint: it's called sarcasm)

 The answer to misguided statement is that it has no less of an effect on our daily lives then the war that you bitch about every single day on this board.

And you don't condon it everyday on this board? Pot meet black.

 Hopefully, that was more clear for you.  One last thing, we never said that people dying was collateral damages and less important than Gay Marriage and the moral fabric of society.

huh?

**********

You still never explained how two men getting married affects your life or affects your integrity when it comes to marriage.

The high divorce rate does not make me hold my marriage to be sub-par. I view it with respect and hard work. Other people's failures have nothing to do with my marriage. So explain to me how two gay men (no moral bullshit here) affect you personally.

Answer the same for abortion. Take into considertation that not all people hold your beliefs to be the truth, when you answer (if you ever) answer my question.

Worrying does not count as being affected. No cop outs.

[GnRNightrain]

Im done with this discussion.? I tried one last time and I couldnt get through.? Oh, well.

[sandman]

abortions effect me in a very positive way.

the typical people that have abortions are either liberals, low income people, teenagers, or all of the above.

and i'd prefer to have less of these people around. it helps keep republicans in office, and helps keep the crime rate down.

republican polititions LOVE the abortion issue and will never outlaw it. they get all the religious people motivated to vote, and it keeps the population of liberals down. it's a win-win.

[sandman]

slcpunk - do you think it's ok to kill a baby as soon as it's born (assuming you do it in a pain-free manner)?