Hired Guns?

[DoubleTalkingJive]

Warning, Warning: Personal opinion.

I am in a band.
I, along with one other guy started the band.
We're not signed (yet), but that doesn't mean that I don't see the band as mine.

I think that's cool that your are in a band and I am sure everyone in your band sees your band as theirs.  No matter who started it, if you are in it together and then get signed together, it's YOUR band as a unit.   If Axl and Izzy could it alone, why didn't they, why even bother getting anybody else to join?  Because they knew they needed a collaboration and I bet if you asked Axl now if he thought the old Guns was his when it was all the original members, I bet he would say no.  Cause back then was way different then what it turned into up until now.

[Mr Cowbell ?]

Warning, Warning: Personal opinion.

I am in a band.
I, along with one other guy started the band.
We're not signed (yet), but that doesn't mean that I don't see the band as mine.

The FANS are the ones who sees Slash as an original member, and as a key member to GNR.

To Axl, I think he has every right to think of his band as Guns N' Roses no matter who is in the band.
It's just like The Cure.

The only original member in that band is Robert Smith.

I wish the new Guns N Roses had a different band name.
But they don't.
The new songs sound great, so I'm looking forward to the CD when (if) it happens.

Yeah you got an ego problem already. So fricken what if you were the first ones in the band. So what if you played a small coffee shop before JOHN or JIM joined.  I look at a band the same way the Rock n Roll hall of fame does.  Their lineup at the time up of their first release.  I see that as the original line-up.  Heck Dave Grohl was like the 6 guy to play drums in what was to become Nirvana and people see him as a true member even after he himself it was more Kurt's and the bass players ideas.  Look at the Bealtes RINGO wasn't the original drummer, but no one puts the original guy over them.

It's all about talent and what you put into your band.  If you are the guy who has a broken bongos set and can't play them but you come up with an Idea for a band called GNOMES, and you get a guitar player to come hang out and play with you and then you get a bass player and then a singer and then the band starts to fill out, do you honestly think it was your band because you were the first one there?  What if you all work together writing songs and recording them.  You are a very arogant man to think Aband is your band because you were there first, it BELONGS TO EVERYONE IN THE BAND who works their asses off, plays them shitty clubs, tours in their crappy vans and does whateer they can to help you sell the band.   

SHAME on you Ryan and I hope your band finds your egotisical ways out and can find a better team player.

[Mikkamakka]

For starters who don't even know who the members were:

Axl, Slash, Duff, Izzy and Steven were the members. (And Tracii and Rob for a month or so.) Period.

[usurper]

This is getting out of hand..........

I hate that Goth Queer, he fucks up too much.... 

[mike_giuliana]

For the first time there is a goth queer in the band...


That's original.

I don't have anything bad to say about the man, he doesn't fit my vision of gnr.. He can play good and seems dedicated so name calling isn't called for..

[ppbebe]

Who and what is Goth Queer? Tracii?

[chineseblues]

Who and what is Goth Queer? Tracii?

the soundman 

[mike_giuliana]

For the first time there is a goth queer in the band...


That's original.

I don't have anything bad to say about the man, he doesn't fit my vision of gnr.. He can play good and seems dedicated so name calling isn't called for..

Yeah, this "Mr"Finck seems very dedicated $$$$

Well I don't know how they get paid, but I'm sure he made some good money with NIn's and I don't see him furthering his solo career (if he has one) by using the name.. I can't say who is more driven by money there or who is more driven by confidence that something big will happen? I'll just wait and see what happens when things actually do happen..

[chineseblues]

For the first time there is a goth queer in the band...


That's original.

I don't have anything bad to say about the man, he doesn't fit my vision of gnr.. He can play good and seems dedicated so name calling isn't called for..

Yeah, this "Mr"Finck seems very dedicated $$$$

Oh yeah that's right because you live in Robin's head right? So you know why he does everything? 

[Naupis]

If the fact we don't have an album yet isn't proof positive these guys are nothing more than "employees" I don't know what is.

Like in most work situations, you can work hand in hand with your boss and ultimately make suggestions to him about what should be done. However, he always makes the final decisions and you know not to push the envelope too much because no matter how good of friends you may be or how receptive he may be to some of your ideas, he can still send you packing at any time. This will always cause to you to operate in a more guarded, subservient manner.

On the other hand, if you are business partners with someone and no one has the power to fire anyone in that partnership, then you have a totally different working environment. People will lay into eachother and put pressure on eachother to get shit done because there is no threat of repercussion. It is a more conducive work environment to actually getting things done as other people actually have the leverage and power to challenge you.


We still wouldn't have the Illusions if the other guys hadn't pressured Axl to get it in gear and finish his parts to release the damn thing. They had the leverage to do that. This new group doesn't have that same ability because they have no leverage and at any point Axl can send them out the door if they challenge him in a way he doesn't life.

It should be pretty clear at this point which set of working conditions make it easier for a band to record and release music. Partnerships often tend to be more fruitful than Employer-employee type of working situations.

[mike_giuliana]

I wonder if being axl let dizzy n chris do a song if he has more songs on cd he didn't personally write?

[madagas]

Naupis, Bob Dylan worked in an employer/employee relationship and released over 40 albums. The problem is the employer is very unstable and not reliable! And also not financially "hungry". The situation could have worked had Axl had a coherent vision-which he obviously does not after a decade of recording. Mike, take a hard look in the mirror and realize that your post after post after post after post after post of the same shit is NOT going to change anything. The old Gnr is absolutely positively 100% over and done. Ok? Take a break and go put the headphones on, close your eyes, do some curls, and listen to AFD  on rewind for the next 20 years. We get your point-for the 1000000000000000th time.

[HK-47]

Partnerships often tend to be more fruitful than Employer-employee type of working situations.

No, they don't. How does your theory account for the fact that there  are hundreds of manufactured pop icons releasing hundreds of albums every year, all using session musicians? How does it account for the many great solo artists over the last few decades who also use session musicians and different line-ups with every tour?

The reason that the album isn't out is because Axl isn't done with it yet, end of story. Of course, that's a whole other  story in itself. 

[Naupis]

The reason that the album isn't out is because Axl isn't done with it yet, end of story

That's the whole point. He is in a group. Each member should be able to tell the other to get it in gear and get it done. The fact that can't happen in the GNR situation supports the theory the other members are his employee puppets he directs to do whatever he wants.

Under the old GNR structure, when they were equals the other members had the leverage to pressure him to finish stuff. That is probably how we ever got any music out of them. Now that no one can say anything to him because they are employees, rather than partners, had lead us to the situation we are in now.

[nesquick]

You know...Buckethead ruined the reputation of the band. The band is better now.

[mike_giuliana]

I can't say it for sure, but I think even if BH never left rio 4 would have never happened, it was just a very convienent way to back out of the show.. The album clearly wasn't ready yet so there was no reason to tour one day then go away for another year..If they really were so into playing that exact gig, they could have done it with afew months to go.. They did rio 2 when it was matt's first show, gilby learned his shit quickly to keep guns going..

[ppbebe]

from a megaphone:


and also i think that if my grandmother had a carberateur she would have been a harley. If... if... if...

when a harley crawls pubs in T-shirts n miniskirts in winter...

all the ifs and buts...

To Mike n James..... if ifs and ans were pots and pans, there'd be no work for tinkers.

I can't say it for sure, but I think even if BH never left rio 4 would have never happened, it was just a very convienent way to back out of the show..

MayB. Then there'd be a hope of return Bucket. 
That doesn't necessary mean the album wasn't ready then or isn't ready by now. 

[usurper]

You know...Buckethead ruined the reputation of the band. The band is better now.

Shut up, Buckethead's better than than Goth fag you call Robin Finck

[ppbebe]

You know...Buckethead ruined the reputation of the band. The band is better now.

Shut up, Buckethead's better than than Goth fag you call Robin Finck

Could you Shut the fuck up, please. And Mind you nesquick dislikes both.
Both guitarists are great in different ways.

[usurper]

You know...Buckethead ruined the reputation of the band. The band is better now.

Shut up, Buckethead's better than than Goth fag you call Robin Finck

Could you Shut the fuck up, please. And Mind you nesquick dislikes both.
Both guitarists are great in different ways.

Why don't you fuck off