Hired Guns?

[gilld1]

It is obvious that the new band are a bunch of hired musicians that were picked for their talent and picked to fill a very specific role within the band.  Is it possible that the original lineup was the same?  How much input did the old Gunners have?  Has it been the Axl show all along?  I know that their are others credited for writing songs but it could have been 99% Rose and 1% Slash or whoever.  All the old guys had very spelled out parts to play and some were easily replaced (Izzy for Gilby).  Is there any weight to this or am I hallucinating madly?

[*Izzy*]

You're hallucinating madly

  Izzy?

[2NaFish]

they're not just hired guns. they participate in creating the new songs.

[John Daniels]

Has it been the Axl show all along?? I know that their are others credited for writing songs but it could have been 99% Rose and 1% Slash or whoever.? All the old guys had very spelled out parts to play and some were easily replaced (Izzy for Gilby).?

You must be joking.. you have given a whole 1% for Slash. I think you're seriously hallucinating..it should be 0,95% 
 

[C0ma]

I agree that the new lineup is a bunch of hired 'guns', but I think you are underestimating how much they are involved in the creative process. I'm sure that someone like Tommy Stinson was picked in part for his songwriting ability. I think some people give Axl way to much credit for the creative process... he wasn't the only (and dare I say main) songwriter in the old lineup. Infact he has yet to release an album without Izzy..........

[Intercourse]

pick up your GNR albums and read the writing credits..'nuff said

[mike_giuliana]

this thread is so stupid.. Yeah axl did everything, no one contributed a thing

[C0ma]

I find lately that it is almost impossible to disagree with the point of view that Axl is and always was GnR.

[mike_giuliana]

I find lately that it is almost impossible to disagree with the point of view that Axl is and always was GnR.

Based on his stellar post gnr days

gnr did their best work when they were a group.. Listen to some of gnr's best tunes and see that the guitar parts were just as important as anything else when hearing those songs.. I guess may was nothing to queen, page was nothing for zepplin, perry was nothing for aeromsith, richards was nothing for the stones..

I love how people try to discredit everyone else but axl yet support him to death when he gives you nothing..

People don't understand the meaning of  band..  SOme might enjoy solo work better so it's all their guy's alone..

[C0ma]

I find lately that it is almost impossible to disagree with the point of view that Axl is and always was GnR.

Based on his stellar post gnr days

gnr did their best work when they were a group.. Listen to some of gnr's best tunes and see that the guitar parts were just as important as anything else when hearing those songs.. I guess may was nothing to queen, page was nothing for zepplin, perry was nothing for aeromsith, richards was nothing for the stones..

I love how people try to discredit everyone else but axl yet support him to death when he gives you nothing..

People don't understand the meaning of? band..? SOme might enjoy solo work better so it's all their guy's alone..

I'm right on the same page as you, I seem to have missed the album that axl wrote and released. As far as I can tell he was part of a band that had some of the better song writers in the last 20 years (sure bash the solo stuff like snake pit). To say that axl was the driving force behing the old GnR material is ridiculous... Izzy was as much a part of that if not more...... Axl's ego didn't really begin to rear it's ugly head untill the very end of that band, which is why everyone began to flee. and have since joined together and recorded one of the best Rock and Roll albums in the last few years..... Of course most poeple wont admit that here... because Axl isn't on it, it's crap right...... But Oh My God was a gem.....

[C0ma]

"I love how people try to discredit everyone else but axl yet support him to death when he gives you nothing.."


 ?

dont get pissed off that i am laughing about it but ye knaw...even if he wouldnt released EVER anything else , i am one of those who believe that all he has done is quite like , "u wanted all , i ll give u something more" type of thing....

and now i may continue....? ?

-if u really wanna get bothered and find out why it sounds so funny for me , think my answer above...?

Any one know what that response is about??

[mike_giuliana]

I find lately that it is almost impossible to disagree with the point of view that Axl is and always was GnR.

Based on his stellar post gnr days

gnr did their best work when they were a group.. Listen to some of gnr's best tunes and see that the guitar parts were just as important as anything else when hearing those songs.. I guess may was nothing to queen, page was nothing for zepplin, perry was nothing for aeromsith, richards was nothing for the stones..

I love how people try to discredit everyone else but axl yet support him to death when he gives you nothing..

People don't understand the meaning of? band..? SOme might enjoy solo work better so it's all their guy's alone..

I'm right on the same page as you, I seem to have missed the album that axl wrote and released. As far as I can tell he was part of a band that had some of the better song writers in the last 20 years (sure bash the solo stuff like snake pit). To say that axl was the driving force behing the old GnR material is ridiculous... Izzy was as much a part of that if not more...... Axl's ego didn't really begin to rear it's ugly head untill the very end of that band, which is why everyone began to flee. and have since joined together and recorded one of the best Rock and Roll albums in the last few years..... Of course most poeple wont admit that here... because Axl isn't on it, it's crap right...... But Oh My God was a gem.....

People will never admit it, if axl did a few songs that are on contraband they would have loved it.. If people can bow down and become slaves to 32 second irs shitty clip then they can enjoy a full song that is rocking.. Him doing slither, dlt or ftps would have been appreciated.. If they had a brief clip of the star of slither they would have been saying instant classic, the hook intro is so catchy.. As for oh my god it's cool until he singing starts, hte instruments themselves sounds really good..

It would be a sin against lord axl if certain people would say they liked one song off contraband.. Maybe some are hoping for a dedication from axl at some future new gnr show.. Hell maybe he will ask some here to get up and join him on KOHD.. People have built these online personalities that is all about disagreeing and even if they loved a VR song they wouldn't admitt it because it's personal and having to say slash matt or duff are complete failures post gnr is a must for them.. Their almost cult religion worshipping is so overtaken them they can't even say something good or even force themselves to like soemthing else..

The same people that love vgh hate CB, and anything else... Not all but you few know who you are.. Like you can't enjoy two albums

=========
Estranged I am not sure what you are saying..

[HK-47]

I think that the songwriting process in the original line-up was something like this (based on Axl, Izzy & Slash's comments over the years); Izzy was the primary songwriter, creating the basic structures of the tunes on acoustic guitar. He'd then work them through with Slash who would create the riffs and lead lines while Izzy would craft the complimentary secondary guitar parts. The basslines and drum parts were left to Duff & Steven/Matt. After Izzy left they were in trouble; other members of the band had obviously brought ideas for tracks to the illusions sessions but they had the whole band together, including Izzy, to shape the tunes. It's pretty clear that Axl had little faith in Slash's ability to create an album's worth of tunes from scratch - besides rejecting the Snakepit tracks in the form that Slash presented them it seemed that the main concern, or Axl's main concern anyway, was finding the right guitar player to work with Slash. It suggests that the feeling was that Slash required the right impetus to bring the best out of him.

So, it would seem that the "GNR sound" was quite reliant on Izzy's input, or that he bore more responsibility for it than any other individual member of the group. Slash provided the aggressive lead guitar and Axl was the voice.

I would think that Axl has tried to structure the new group in the same way, so the main question should really be "who has replaced Izzy?" i.e. who has taken on the responsibility of shaping the songs, of providing the base structure for the other members to work from? Yes, all of the members participate in creating the final product, just as the old group did, but that doesn't answer the question. You can safely assume that this band's songwriting methods are the same as the old band's because it's hardly a GNR-specific formula, most bands work that way. I'd put money on Axl and Tommy being largely responsible for taking the ideas and crafting them into song format, simply because they're the most vocal and optimisitic about the album/band and they've been involved the longest without wobbling.

[jameslofton29]

Excellent Post HK-47. I completely agree. Without a legitimate replacement for Izzy, this album isn't going anywhere.

[Neemo]

Excellent Post HK-47. I completely agree. Without a legitimate replacement for Izzy, this album isn't going anywhere.

Doesn't necessarily need to be Izzy, just someone to tell Axl to stop fuckin' around with the mix and release the album for fuck sakes. You would think the band (if they weren't hired guns, that is) would get pissed off and force Axl to release it so they could start makin' money and touring.

[mike_giuliana]

Excellent Post HK-47. I completely agree. Without a legitimate replacement for Izzy, this album isn't going anywhere.

Doesn't necessarily need to be Izzy, just someone to tell Axl to stop fuckin' around with the mix and release the album for fuck sakes. You would think the band (if they weren't hired guns, that is) would get pissed off and force Axl to release it so they could start makin' money and touring.

the only one with balls is bh and he left the rest are just hired guns with no balls.. WHo joins a band and 7 years later is still cool with nothing released or tours.. It's just tommy robin, richard, pittman etc know they have no where to go so they stick around as axl's whiping boy left out of the grand scheme..

[chineseblues]

Excellent Post HK-47. I completely agree. Without a legitimate replacement for Izzy, this album isn't going anywhere.

Doesn't necessarily need to be Izzy, just someone to tell Axl to stop fuckin' around with the mix and release the album for fuck sakes. You would think the band (if they weren't hired guns, that is) would get pissed off and force Axl to release it so they could start makin' money and touring.

the only one with balls is bh and he left the rest are just hired guns with no balls.. WHo joins a band and 7 years later is still cool with nothing released or tours.. It's just tommy robin, richard, pittman etc know they have no where to go so they stick around as axl's whiping boy left out of the grand scheme..

Really shows how ignorant you are mike. If Tommy wanted he could make a lot of fuckin money with a Mat's reunion. Richard owns his own business for gods sake. Brain is members in other bands as well, so i doubt he NEEDS guns. Fact is they all believe in the material they helped create, that's why they have stayed.

[Neemo]

Excellent Post HK-47. I completely agree. Without a legitimate replacement for Izzy, this album isn't going anywhere.

Doesn't necessarily need to be Izzy, just someone to tell Axl to stop fuckin' around with the mix and release the album for fuck sakes. You would think the band (if they weren't hired guns, that is) would get pissed off and force Axl to release it so they could start makin' money and touring.

the only one with balls is bh and he left the rest are just hired guns with no balls.. WHo joins a band and 7 years later is still cool with nothing released or tours.. It's just tommy robin, richard, pittman etc know they have no where to go so they stick around as axl's whiping boy left out of the grand scheme..

I don't think it has anything to do with them having balls or not. I think that they were hired to contribute to the album and they got payed for it and thats it. They weren't recuited into Axl's "partnership" so I think they have no say in when (or if) CD will be released. Brain, Tommy and Dizzy have all said, "when Axl is ready, I'll be there". That leads me to believe that they have been hired for a job not brought in to help make decisions.

Axl is a control freak and a perfectionist, and doesn't let anyone tell him what to do.
A perfect album is impossible so Axl will never be happy with it and since he has no one pushing him to release it, I don't see any reason to expect CD anytime soon. Just my opinion.

[DoubleTalkingJive]

Excellent Post HK-47. I completely agree. Without a legitimate replacement for Izzy, this album isn't going anywhere.

Doesn't necessarily need to be Izzy, just someone to tell Axl to stop fuckin' around with the mix and release the album for fuck sakes. You would think the band (if they weren't hired guns, that is) would get pissed off and force Axl to release it so they could start makin' money and touring.

the only one with balls is bh and he left the rest are just hired guns with no balls.. WHo joins a band and 7 years later is still cool with nothing released or tours.. It's just tommy robin, richard, pittman etc know they have no where to go so they stick around as axl's whiping boy left out of the grand scheme..

I don't think it has anything to do with them having balls or not. I think that they were hired to contribute to the album and they got payed for it and thats it. They weren't recuited into Axl's "partnership" so I think they have no say in when (or if) CD will be released. Brain, Tommy and Dizzy have all said, "when Axl is ready, I'll be there". That leads me to believe that they have been hired for a job not brought in to help make decisions.

Axl is a control freak and a perfectionist, and doesn't let anyone tell him what to do.
A perfect album is impossible so Axl will never be happy with it and since he has no one pushing him to release it, I don't see any reason to expect CD anytime soon. Just my opinion.

I agree with Mike and Neemo... The old band was definitely a collaboration way more than NuGNR..   I think in the old band Axl was given control of certain things NOT given control of every single aspect as he is now, which makes his new band like hired musicians, they have NO say in anything.   They are not stupid either, none of them are big enough to go out there and make it on their own, they are waiting for Axl cause they know when/if he does decide to release CD and they tour it will be big, bigger then any of their solo projects.

[mike_giuliana]

Excellent Post HK-47. I completely agree. Without a legitimate replacement for Izzy, this album isn't going anywhere.

Doesn't necessarily need to be Izzy, just someone to tell Axl to stop fuckin' around with the mix and release the album for fuck sakes. You would think the band (if they weren't hired guns, that is) would get pissed off and force Axl to release it so they could start makin' money and touring.

the only one with balls is bh and he left the rest are just hired guns with no balls.. WHo joins a band and 7 years later is still cool with nothing released or tours.. It's just tommy robin, richard, pittman etc know they have no where to go so they stick around as axl's whiping boy left out of the grand scheme..

Really shows how ignorant you are mike. If Tommy wanted he could make a lot of fuckin money with a Mat's reunion. Richard owns his own business for gods sake. Brain is members in other bands as well, so i doubt he NEEDS guns. Fact is they all believe in the material they helped create, that's why they have stayed.

Then I say I made a mistake.. I still don't think if you are  aband only one person has the input on when something happens when you have at least 8 people who contributed to an album.. A groups is made up of people that have equal say from business end to input on material.. Staying really doesn't take much being they never need to be there..