Hired Guns?

[HK-47]

? Let me get this straight, Axl owns the band name, controls who is in and who is out of the band, controls the recording schedule, decides to tour or not, decides when to release the album, will decide what songs to release for singles, control the making of any videos, etc.? But wait, he lets the guys help decide if it should be a C chord or C sharp, I stand corrected!!? 

Yes, that's right, Axl takes care of the business side of the band and lets the musicians get on with recording the music. Is that so strange? Most of the things you mentioned there are responsibilities usually left up to the label and the band's manager, such as singles, videos and touring - Axl has simply ensured that he has the final say on those issues. Trust me, no major label lets the band's drummer budget the videos.

[Litti10]

Not necessarely but Axl is the person who makes the music sound good. So without Axl i don't think that any of the old songs would be that good. Breakdown,Estranged,November Rain, Shotgun Blues (just to name few that comes to mind) all Rose's songs so that tells a lot!

[madagas]

PPBEBE, Falcon is correct-having an over all final destination goal is different than having a specific sound you want for the album-a specific date you want to complete the recording-a specific date you want to release the record-etc. One thing is for sure, Axl's sky is purple and the weather is always turbulent! Let's hope clear skies are ahead. It's Friday! Have a good weekend and quit responding to that knucklehead......

[Warren]

Essential things are never repeated enough.

It's also never repeated enough that "stalinists" like us can delete posts of people who insist on breaking the rules like you. Keep that in mind.

Pandora,

If I totally disagree with you, would you call that "breaking the rules" ?

Could you tell me which rules I did break so far ? I didn't insult anybody, I'm just posting my opinion. You treat it like a capital crime...


Jarmo,

I'm moving on as a matter of fact. Maybe even faster than you...
As nugnr is over, I think the next natural step should be a reunion !

That would be a pretty good move for Axl's career !

The best he could do...

[mikegiuliana]

as far as axl doing everything.. Well some bands are different, like motley crue was more nikki writing everything, or KISS gene simmons was a big part of the process, both play bass,,, I see what gild1 is saying..  Back in the day for gnr I'm sure the over all choices for songs and shit like that was more of a group effort.. Now it seems like tommy or dizzy can be gone for a month/s or so and axl is taking care of everything.. Everything is finalized by him... So in many cases they are just hired players.. Sure they have insight in the making of the songs, but I am sure axl has the final say in every case on what stays or goes.. If he wants something re done they have to re do them even if they object.. Just like gilby was hired to keep the band going, and matt payed to hit drums. It doesn't matter because until I am able to buy an album then nothing is going on in my eyes.. There is no new gnr right now there is no stamp on music history they have made yet.. Sure we know nu gnr but who else knows?? Some know axl is making some album that never surfaces..

[Pandora]

Pandora,

If I totally disagree with you, would you call that "breaking the rules" ?

Could you tell me which rules I did break so far ? I didn't insult anybody, I'm just posting my opinion. You treat it like a capital crime...

Puh-lease, don't act like we're the big bad guys and you're the poor little victim. 

This has nothing to do with opinions. Lots of people here have varying opinions, and they've never been censored because they express themselves in a correct manner.

The rule you are breaking is basically posting the same thing over and over and over (repeat), often straying off topic in the process, just to hammer your opinion down our heads. Some people here have already pointed out to you that it's extremely tiresome and you should stop, but you don't really give a shit, do you?

You also regularly poke fun at members whose opinions differ from yours, ie people who don't wish for a reunion and don't whine "ooh, the old band is gone" all day and all fucking night. That, also, is against the rules.

Fairly easy to comprehend, isn't it?

[ppbebe]

PPBEBE, Falcon is correct-having an over all final destination goal is different than having a specific sound you want for the album-a specific date you want to complete the recording-a specific date you want to release the record-etc. One thing is for sure, Axl's sky is purple and the weather is always turbulent! Let's hope clear skies are ahead. It's Friday! Have a good weekend and quit responding to that knucklehead......

Thanks for the tip.

a specific sound, that sounds Like, Pretty Hate or OK Computer?

Geez! I'm so glad that he didn't have a specific sound he wanted for the album.
 

[ppbebe]

"With Axl, he doesn't really have his own vision. "
- Tommy Stinson

That pretty much backs Madagas' initial opinion which I agreed with.

"That's actually the reason I joined. I talked to Axl about what he wanted to do with this thing. It's never been done before, where the singer keeps the name while the other guys fucking quit. Just knowing what his goals were for the whole thing that I thought 'This is probably the ballsiest guy I've ever fucking played with, so I'm in.'"
-Tommy Stinson

This tells me Axl was more concerned in reinventing GNR with new players, not actually having a focused creative vision to convey his musical message.

He might have got no fixed musical vision ready beforehand but he would make it emerge through the process.

I think it is not necessarily a good thing that a band leader provides a solid vision for every piece of music before a single tone comes out of the band.
Perhaps it would be much much quicker and it could prevent the expansion of musical development from happening during the sessions and end up restricting the music within predictable limits.

Which music is more interesting?

I'd imagine a head with some abstract notion of the albums/project as a whole, which is flexible, would lead the band/the music better than the other with a concrete plan for every note would do.
Such a leader would get the most out of a band. 
Could be it's possible only when he can trust the individuals in his band.

If the chairperson had a resolution for every issue already, he wouldn't need to call a conference.

[gilld1]

HK47, I beg to differ, Lars Urlich calls about all the shots for Metallica. ?He and Axl are quite similar in their totalitarian world view. ?They are also both rich, arrogant assholes but thier music kicks. ?

Ppbebe, so I suppose that you are an expert on GNR since you probably heard a song on the radio as a child last year.

[madagas]

Gilld1-just drop it-she's not talking to you-no sense in being an ass with every post. PPBEBE, nice response and I hope Axl has put it all together and the record is immaculate. If it is as good as OK Computer (one of my top five favorites of all time), I'll be more than happy!

[Neemo]

Gilld1-just drop it-she's not talking to you-no sense in being an ass with every post. PPBEBE, nice response and I hope Axl has put it all together and the record is immaculate. If it is as good as OK Computer (one of my top five favorites of all time), I'll be more than happy!

Fuck, if it gets released I'll be happy

[Falcon]

He might have got no fixed musical vision ready beforehand but he would make it emerge through the process.

Maybe so, although from what we've heard so far, whether you like the songs or not you'd have to agree he's all over the place musically with no vision emerging.

Some like to portray that lack of focus as diversity, I don't.

I still think it goes back to the "pilot without a destination" theory.

[AxlsMainMan]

He might have got no fixed musical vision ready beforehand but he would make it emerge through the process.

Maybe so, although from what we've heard so far, whether you like the songs or not you'd have to agree he's all over the place musically with no vision emerging.

Some like to portray that lack of focus as diversity, I don't.

I still think it goes back to the "pilot without a destination" theory.

I have to agree. From the limited "new" material we have heard thus far, it is pretty hard to determine a general "theme" or musical message Axl is trying to convey. The lyrics and intrumental aspects of all the new material is hardly comparable from one song to another, that in its self is a main reason why this process is taking so long. Axl has recorded such an overbearing amount of material over the years that skimming through it all and orchestrating what will go just where is very perplexing to our redhead.

[ppbebe]

  Yay, lets go n help him out, shall we?
I'd guarantee the album to be released hell lots later (n messy), if ever.
None of us speaks the same language, while most of us like to talk away with each other. 

He might have got no fixed musical vision ready beforehand but he would make it emerge through the process.

Maybe so, although from what we've heard so far, whether you like the songs or not you'd have to agree he's all over the place musically with no vision emerging.

Some like to portray that lack of focus as diversity, I don't.

I still think it goes back to the "pilot without a destination" theory.

well, I'm positive that IRS, Oh my god and Chinese Democracy are sorta linked together in a sense.

I do agree that the music is all over the place and it's perhaps a cause for the gradual/sluggish proceeding.
nevertheless it's diversity.
And possibly the massive work is in the process of being concluded by now.

The strength of a chain is its weakest link, you know.

[Falcon]

well, I'm positive that IRS, Oh my god and Chinese Democracy are sorta linked together in a sense.

Maybe so...

The strength of a chain is its weakest link, you know.

I agree, and that's what's kept me around.  I've held fast that what we've heard so far is (less Chinese Democracy and to a lesser degree, OMG) is extremely weak, borderline B side material.

I've never believed the "big guns" theory but that there's got to be something better awaiting us in the supposed 70+ songs we've heard about for eons.

[Mikkamakka]

well, I'm positive that IRS, Oh my god and Chinese Democracy are sorta linked together in a sense.

I agree and I'd even add Rhiad/Riyadh and Silkworms. These songs have the same style, although I'm not a fan of them. But it'd be strange to hear this type of songs on the album together with The Blues or Madagascar..

[ppbebe]

Geez Christ 4 posts anyhow include a word "agree" in a row? we'll see the ice-cream hell very soon.

[ppbebe]

The strength of a chain is its weakest link, you know.

I agree, and that's what's kept me around.  I've held fast that what we've heard so far is (less Chinese Democracy and to a lesser degree, OMG) is extremely weak, borderline B side material.

I've never believed the "big guns" theory but that there's got to be something better awaiting us in the supposed 70+ songs we've heard about for eons.

I see what you mean although I don't consider the 3 materials I mentioned weak. I love the intenseness.
As I see it, those songs ought to get to their right place (on an album), to prove (you) their true potency.

Shame on me, I misused the proverb. 
I wanted to say a weak side sometime turn to the strength?when it finally emerges from chaos and forms into the cosmos.

I agree and I'd even add Rhiad/Riyadh and Silkworms. These songs have the same style, although I'm not a fan of them. But it'd be strange to hear this type of songs on the album together with The Blues or Madagascar..

I agree that blues and mad are out of the link,
maybe Riyadh makes a connection with IRA, but I don't think thst and silkworms are in the same style. I see both of them as unknown quantities. Well It is rather odd that you(who likes Zep n Beatles) prefer the blues n maddy to IRS n Riyadh. 

[Mikkamakka]

Yes, I prefer Blues and Madagascar to the new 'rockers', although I prefer rockers to ballads in general. The new 'rockers' just don't do it for me, although I think that Axl does a very great job on CD, and IRS can be great, too.

[Falcon]

I see what you mean although I don't consider the 3 materials I mentioned weak. I love the intenseness.

I wasn't speaking of the 3 you mentioned as weak, I like CD and OMG, haven't heard a clear enough version of IRS to have any kind of objective opinion.

I was referring to the remaining tunes we've heard, Madagascar, The Blues, Rhiad and Silkworms.