Trent tells Finck "F*ck you"

[RichardNixon]

I think Axl got Robin because he thought Robin could help him create the kind of record he wanted to create.

Agreed..to a degree.

Speculating here of course, I think Axl flat out loves the fact the Robin was in NIN and was not hired solely on his ability as player, but somewhat on his association with a band Axl had fixated on.

?

Do you think Richard was asked to join because Axl wanted to make an NSYNC album?

I never mentioned Richard.


/jarmo

Not to pick a fight or anything, but how can any of us know Axl's motives for anything he does. I can see why it would be easy to assume Axl wanting Finck because he toured with NIN, thus giving Nu-GN'R some street cred, but in 2005, as much as I love NIN, they are over-the-hill, in terms of what is really *cool.* If Axl only cared about trends, why didn't he snacth Wes Borland or Jack White (that would have been something!) Not saying White would join, but you get the point.

[ppbebe]

Oh, that's the gift of Paranoia.

Listen, Axl is a BIG fan of NIN. There is NO Way NO How that he didn't know Robin Finck first as the Robin Finck, NIN guitarist.

Get fucking real.

Exactly.

Vrenna, Finck, "Oh My God"...

From the sublime to the ridiculous, as it continues.

Good!!! So you can tell me which song off NIN sounds like "Oh My God" perhaps.

I asked another NIN obsessive about this but he failed to answer.

[Falcon]

Good!!! So you can tell me which song off NIN sounds like "Oh My God" perhaps.

I asked another NIN obsessive about this but he failed to answer.

Stylistically, it's the same sound of that Trent brought to the mainstream. 

11 years earler...

[Mikkamakka]

Oh, that's the gift of Paranoia.

Listen, Axl is a BIG fan of NIN. There is NO Way NO How that he didn't know Robin Finck first as the Robin Finck, NIN guitarist.

Get fucking real.

Exactly.

Vrenna, Finck, "Oh My God"...

From the sublime to the ridiculous, as it continues.

Good!!! So you can tell me which song off NIN sounds like "Oh My God" perhaps.

I asked another NIN obsessive about this but he failed to answer.

It's not a rip-off, but has the typical sounding a la The Downward Spiral.

[madagas]

And all the riffing off Contraband was done by Motley Crue in 1985! And all the riffing off AFD and UYI was done by Aerosmith and the Stones and ZEPPELIN and New York Dolls in the 70's. Everybody nicks off things that happen in the past. There are only so many sounds a guitar can make. Hendrix did everything you could do by the end of 1967-68.

[Falcon]

Not to pick a fight or anything, but how can any of us know Axl's motives for anything he does. I can see why it would be easy to assume Axl wanting Finck because he toured with NIN, thus giving Nu-GN'R some street cred, but in 2005, as much as I love NIN, they are over-the-hill, in terms of what is really *cool.* If Axl only cared about trends, why didn't he snacth Wes Borland or Jack White (that would have been something!) Not saying White would join, but you get the point.

Of course we don't, it's just logical speculation.  Axl's obsession with Nails, the recruitment of several players associated with them and a song that was obviously headed in the industrial direction is fairly blatant circumstantial evidence, don't you think?

As the guy said in "Behind The Music", Axl's bid to stay relevent has taken so long he's always been a step or two behind musically what's going on at any particular time, so give him a few years, Borland or White may be on their way..

As far as Trent/NIN being "over-the-hill, in terms of what is really *cool*, I couldn't disagree more.  Few artists
transcend the flavor of the moment, Reznor is one of them.  He's considered one of the forefathers of the industrial genre and was the main artist who popularized the style and brought it to the masses. 

Tying this back to Axl, I have absolutely no problem if he chose to move in an NIN direction, I would have preferred he do it in a bit more subtle fashion.

[ppbebe]

Good!!! So you can tell me which song off NIN sounds like "Oh My God" perhaps.

I asked another NIN obsessive about this but he failed to answer.

Stylistically, it's the same sound of that Trent brought to the mainstream. 

11 years earler...

Man, Listen to Einsuterde Noebouten(Sp?),  Jesus and Mary Chain, The The or whatever the arts of noises.

I don't know how many decades earler...

[madagas]

 Falcon, I would have preferred he did it and gotten over it 5 years ago. Hell, there is probably a full album of mixes from that time period-I am sure. Axl needs to do what HE does best and I am not sure Industrial is his schtick-don't cater to anybody, make the album you want to make. Unfortunately, I think Axl is still trying to figure out "what he wants". Thus, no record. ?

[Falcon]

Man, Listen to ......,? Jesus and Mary Chain,....

Please xcuse me ppbebe, I really have no idea what point you're trying to make but I love Jesus And The Mary Chain, Bobby Gillespie has continued his brilliance seemlessly with Primal Scream as well.

[jarmo]

Of course we don't, it's just logical speculation.? Axl's obsession with Nails, the recruitment of several players associated with them and a song that was obviously headed in the industrial direction is fairly blatant circumstantial evidence, don't you think?

NINE INCH MALES
THE TRENT CONNECTION

What does Axl Rose have in common with Trent Reznor besides a large bank account and a bad case of writer's block? Actually, the reclusive pair also share a fondness for applying the latest technology to howls of pain and anger, and studio pros like drum programmer Chris Vrenna list both as references. Reznor rode the alt-rock revolution to stardom, but few know he had an unlikely, bandanna-sportin' champion from the very beginning: A brief account of W Axl Rose's enduring fascination with the inner workings of the pretty hate machine.

LARS ULRICH: I remember late one night Axl was sitting there telling me about this band called Nine Inch Nails: He was saying, "This is the coolest thing I've ever heard:" And we were all sitting there going, "What the fuck are you talking about?" He had Nine Inch Nails support Guns N' Roses in Europe, and I remember hearing how they got booed off the stage. But he was there when the rest of us were still listening to fucking Judas Priest.

JOSEPH BROOKS: Several years ago, Axl told me to go shopping for CDs for him: He gave me a credit card, and I bought him stuff like Front 242, Nine Inch Nails, KMFDM, early Prodigy-all the early techno stuff. He was really excited by it.


MATT SORUM: Axl was well-versed in what was new and happening: He was the first person to play me Nine Inch Nails: He said, "They're gonna be huge."

GILBY CLARKE: Basically, Axl said, "I want to change the sound of the band. I want to use more industrial type things." He was really into bands like Nine Inch Nails.

CHRIS VRENNA: Axl was always a big Nails fan. I was in Nine Inch Nails for ten years so I went from [playing with] Trent Reznor to Billy Corgan to Axl Rose.


Just A Little Patience - Spin, July 1999


There's more than NIN you know.....



/jarmo

[Falcon]

There's more than NIN you know.....



/jarmo

Sure there is, but what's the common denominator in each of the quotes?

NIN.

Again speculating, I think Axl has always not only liked Nail music, but he's always envied Trent's "Wizard behind the curtain" existence.

[RichardNixon]

Not to pick a fight or anything, but how can any of us know Axl's motives for anything he does. I can see why it would be easy to assume Axl wanting Finck because he toured with NIN, thus giving Nu-GN'R some street cred, but in 2005, as much as I love NIN, they are over-the-hill, in terms of what is really *cool.* If Axl only cared about trends, why didn't he snacth Wes Borland or Jack White (that would have been something!) Not saying White would join, but you get the point.

Of course we don't, it's just logical speculation.? Axl's obsession with Nails, the recruitment of several players associated with them and a song that was obviously headed in the industrial direction is fairly blatant circumstantial evidence, don't you think?

As the guy said in "Behind The Music", Axl's bid to stay relevent has taken so long he's always been a step or two behind musically what's going on at any particular time, so give him a few years, Borland or White may be on their way..

As far as Trent/NIN being "over-the-hill, in terms of what is really *cool*, I couldn't disagree more.? Few artists
transcend the flavor of the moment, Reznor is one of them.? He's considered one of the forefathers of the industrial genre and was the main artist who popularized the style and brought it to the masses.?

Tying this back to Axl, I have absolutely no problem if he chose to move in an NIN direction, I would have preferred he do it in a bit more subtle fashion.

Falcon, some excellent points.

Axl's recruitment of Finck and other members associated with NIN is a valid point.
As far as Axl wanting to stay relevant, it's true that Axl has incorporated bits of an industrial sound to some of the new (new as of '01) songs, but I'd still classify them as "rock." OMG was by far, the most industrail of the bunch.

As for NIN-What I meant when I said "over the hill" was, when I was in high school, a lot of people loved them--jocks, the freaks, all different types. Over a decade after the fact, they still have a lot of fans, but not the same mass appeal. So Reznor's heyday is over, but he still is relevant and has fans, is what I meant to say

Now, Trent Reznor knows what a fan Axl is--why not produce the record himself, if that's what Axl has wanted all along.

[HK-47]

Good!!! So you can tell me which song off NIN sounds like "Oh My God" perhaps.

I asked another NIN obsessive about this but he failed to answer.

Stylistically, it's the same sound of that Trent brought to the mainstream.?

11 years earler...

That's not quite true, is it? OMG certainly has "industrial" leanings but you'd have to cast your net a bit wider to find band-specific influences for that song; As far as it corrolates to NIN's sound, it bares more relation to the sounds on "Fragile" than any of the previous NIN albums, and I think OMG turned up a little earlier than that album. OMG definately has a more driven, heavy sound than anything from 'Pretty Hate Machine' and it's more musically complex than Trent's efforts on 'Downward Spiral', there's a more blatant effort to integrate the melodic and metalesque sections of OMG than you'd typically find in NIN's pre-Fragile output. I think that the song as a whole bears more relation to european "industrial" bands (at least, the more commercial ones) than the american bands like NIN or Ministry. Of course, the version of the song that we've all heard was only a demo, even the live version sounded less like a typical pseudo-industrial track, courtesy of BH's leads.

[Mikkamakka]

Of course we don't, it's just logical speculation.? Axl's obsession with Nails, the recruitment of several players associated with them and a song that was obviously headed in the industrial direction is fairly blatant circumstantial evidence, don't you think?

NINE INCH MALES
THE TRENT CONNECTION

What does Axl Rose have in common with Trent Reznor besides a large bank account and a bad case of writer's block? Actually, the reclusive pair also share a fondness for applying the latest technology to howls of pain and anger, and studio pros like drum programmer Chris Vrenna list both as references. Reznor rode the alt-rock revolution to stardom, but few know he had an unlikely, bandanna-sportin' champion from the very beginning: A brief account of W Axl Rose's enduring fascination with the inner workings of the pretty hate machine.

LARS ULRICH: I remember late one night Axl was sitting there telling me about this band called Nine Inch Nails: He was saying, "This is the coolest thing I've ever heard:" And we were all sitting there going, "What the fuck are you talking about?" He had Nine Inch Nails support Guns N' Roses in Europe, and I remember hearing how they got booed off the stage. But he was there when the rest of us were still listening to fucking Judas Priest.

JOSEPH BROOKS: Several years ago, Axl told me to go shopping for CDs for him: He gave me a credit card, and I bought him stuff like Front 242, Nine Inch Nails, KMFDM, early Prodigy-all the early techno stuff. He was really excited by it.


MATT SORUM: Axl was well-versed in what was new and happening: He was the first person to play me Nine Inch Nails: He said, "They're gonna be huge."

GILBY CLARKE: Basically, Axl said, "I want to change the sound of the band. I want to use more industrial type things." He was really into bands like Nine Inch Nails.

CHRIS VRENNA: Axl was always a big Nails fan. I was in Nine Inch Nails for ten years so I went from [playing with] Trent Reznor to Billy Corgan to Axl Rose.


Just A Little Patience - Spin, July 1999


There's more than NIN you know.....



/jarmo

Another mention:

Slash: "I wanted him to. You have to know Axl to understand what I'm getting at. Axl's the kind of guy who over-thinks everything. Sometimes it's fucking classic, and sometimes it's just...whatever. And that's cool. But there was a point there where Axl goes: "I'm gonna do a solo record, and I'm gonna get Trent Reznor and Dave Navarro, and the drummer from Nirvana..." and so on. And it's like, he doesn't even know half of these people. He's just pulling them out of the sky. And I was like, "Cool! Do your thing. That way you'll get it out of your system, and when you get back we'll just be Guns N' Roses."

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=16

[madagas]

Now that is pretty fucking funny! What a fucking band though...Grohl, Navarro, Reznor and Axl. I guess Axl would have played bass? Too fuckin funny...Axl is whacked! "he doesn't even know half of these people!"-classic. ps wait, I'm sorry, Slash forgot to mention Jeff Ament from Pearl Jam on bass-(since Slash claimed Axl wanted to sound like Pearl Jam at one point). too funny.

[ppbebe]

He's considered one of the forefathers of the industrial genre

That's a consideration too. He might be one of the forefathers of the industrial ROCK.

Please xcuse me ppbebe, I really have no idea what point you're trying to make but I love Jesus And The Mary Chain, Bobby Gillespie has continued his brilliance seemlessly with Primal Scream as well.

Although I'm not an expert or something, I dear try. 

From what I've learned, there have been many attempts to interpret Dadaism to music since 1910s.
Industrial music is one of the attempts, which started by the label "industrial records" in '70s, and originally not rock based but folk based.
Dada is the art movement that involved intentionally doing things the wrong way to contradict the established values of aestheticism.
So the Industrial music, in short, challenges the idea of music by making noise.

Hence there have been band names like, Coil, Cabaret Voltaire, Einsuterde und Noebouten.
Blixa's chainsaw n pneumatic drill is real kick-ass BTW.

This industrial music movement has made lots of branches. Today's industrial Rock is just one of them.
The bands I wrote earlier are a few examples. Depeche Mode is distantly related.

Possibly Axl had known about them and had a vague idea for creating a certain sort of sound far before he heard of NIN.
I imagine Robins career in chainsaw performance might have been the big attraction for him (and for Trent). It's quite a Dadaist.