Stinson on Fourth Quarter Release

[33]

Sit down, and shut the fuck up already! Saying it is coming soon "for real this time," makes you sound like a big fucking anal douche.

The majority of us, have been waiting so long that someone who knows shit coming in here and saying it is coming soon, is really annoying. I also think the majority here have accepted the FACT that it may not be coming anytime soon, because we have been hearing the same blah blah blah for years.

It aint negative son, it just is.

I think that was aimed at me Mr Buddha! I am not coming in trying to be all opinionated about when the album is coming out! I am just being positive and its only my opinion. I have been saying since about february that I am convinced something is about happening! I ent no different to any other fan in the guns world, of course we have been hearing the same for years and I am not professing to 'know shit' its just my opionion that at long last I do believe there is something happening instead of them just being pointless rumours! I also think the reason I posted a message earlier saying 'its coming soon' or words to that effect was just because I am so sick and tired of reading and listening to negative rude shit about the band or axl, whether it be on this site or another guns site or in the media! I was just having a moment thats all!!

[Twisted Nerve 85]

I might as well hold my breath because odds are Im not going to be alive to see this album anyway.

And Im 19!!!!! 

[blasphemer]

Thats the plan.  Fuck ur plan and shut up stinson u have been sayin this for yrs now.  We just want a concrete release date none of that, " its just a pubic hair away".

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

Eva,

It was directed at those who 'attack' people for being, according to those who attack, 'too negative'.? We have heard the same song dance for how long now?? Has the album come out?? No it hasnt.? So for some one to be cynical or even (gasp) negative about comments from the members of the band regarding the release of Chinese Democracy is not unwarranted.? Then when I read people attack them, I crack up.?

As for my argument.? I have given my explanation as to why it is not before.? While I maybe should have clarified that in my above post, I did not feel like it at the time.?

It can not be argued that its not coming out as fact - ?no more than it can be argued that it is coming out as fact. ?To argue either case as fact is completely illogical.


As far as recognizing whether one is being 'too negative' or 'too positive'... Follow me here for a minute:

Expressing that you don't expect it to come out is negative. ?But not 'too negative' by any means. ?
that includes those who roll their eyes when bandmember so and so says its planned to be released by such and such a time. ?
The cynacism, produced by the disgust of past plans repeatedly not coming to fruition, I agree, is not unfounded.

Expressing that you expect it to come out is positive. ?But not 'too' positive by any means or measurement.
that includes everyone who roll their eyes at those who roll thier eyes when bandmember so and so says whatever
The positive thinkers disgust with the cynacism of the negative thinkers is not unfounded because every time plans don't come to fruition, the cynacism abounds... and this is often.

What would qualify either group or expression as either too negative or too positive would be to present or state it as fact that everyone must recognize as such.
Example 1) "It will not/never come out and those who don't realize this yet are in denial" = too negative
Example 2) ?"It will come out (whenever) and those who don't realize yet are in denial" = ?too positive

Back to the comment about "all kinds of intelligence". ?This comment always cracks me up and I was waiting for the first person to mention it. ?Have you noticed that everybody is smart nowadays? ?There is not one person who is stupid out there anymore (except me of course... I want you to come up with a better comeback than that). ?And right about now is probably the time when you want to bring up emotional intelligence, street smarts, body intelligence, etc..... ?aka cop outs for intellectually challenged people. ?

The last line you wrote is very true... ?it is the one thing you said that I pretty much agree with. ?

As far as intellect - it is our ablity to learn and reason that seperates us from all other living things. ?This capacity for knowlege and understanding can be utilized in many different forms.
To realize emotional intelligence is not 'to think with your emotions' at all. ?It is to learn/understand about emotions, recognizing emotion as being the other major attribute that makes us (humans) who we are and to reason how best to apply this knowledge. ?

It is a real intelligence which calls on one's capacity to grasp the abstract and profound - indicating intellect by definition. ?

Street smarts to put it breifly is the ability to negotiate a given environment, again, calling for the ability to gather knowledge (of the environment) and learning to apply that understanding with reason - by definition, again, this calls for intellect.

The subject matter in which one applies* their learning and reasoning abilities does not determine whether one is intellectually challenged.
Any demonstration of one's capacity for knowledge and understanding is a demonstration of intellect.

To judge those who don't posses a certain kind of intellegence as being intellectually challenged at best demonstrates ignorance.






*edited for typo/misspelling?

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Now this discussion is getting interesting!

The title of this thread could be from any year from 2002- present. We`ve heard it before. Maybe I am a foolish optomist, but I think we may see it by the end of this year. I think someone will reach the end of their rope, whether it be a band member, record label or management if we don`t see CD by the end of 2005. So Axl`s hand may be forced (if thats possible) or GNR will be dropped and sadly thus the demise of GNR.

I really hope the latter scenerio is not what happens.

[mick]

Try to understand it musn't be easy for Tommy. He is not responsible of the situation. I heard a lot of people saying "Tommy is a liar, he always says the same things "etc... but he doesn't own the CD release date. He doesn't decide of it. Tommy is a a smart guy. He is very likely as frustrated as us, maybe even more. I agree to say the situation is pathetic, but it's not Tommy's fault.

Then he should shut his pie hole. He brings this on himself by answering the questions via his ass. All he has to say is " I don't know". Which, everyone would agree, is the truth.

[GNFNR_UK]

Thats the plan.? Fuck ur plan and shut up stinson u have been sayin this for yrs now.? We just want a concrete release date none of that, " its just a pubic hair away".

LMFAO!! So true. I have tried to stay positive since 1993 that we would get some new original material from Guns (Or at least Axl) but things are looking bleek. Despite the IRS leak recently I still felt a release was more likely in '02 when things were actually happening, Axl was doing the odd interview and Guns were touring. There is no tour planned and they have no replacement for Buckethead (as far as we know) how can anyone think the release is 'just around the corner'?? I have this fear that one day when Tommy is asked he's just gonna come out with 'oh, chinese democracy? Yeah we scrapped it, we aint gonna release that anymore, we just couldn't get it how Axl wanted it', just imagine the fucking uproar that would cause! What I mean is even if Axl does have no intention of releasing it anymore, he isn't gonna come out and say it for fear of getting fucking hung drawn and quatered by fans and the media! So he would, I believe, let us go on thinking it's 'just around the corner'. People say Tommy and Dizzy don't know shit but let's not forget how indecisive Axl himself is too, even when he says something himself it hasn't always happened, look at the following quotes below, from Axl himself:

From January 2001:
DJ: When is it gonna be the new album? Is it possible that we're gonna have a new record from Guns N' Roses?

Axl: Yes, I've heard. Um, hopefully we will put out a new single umm sometime this spring and then the record gonna be done in June or shortly thereafter

And from a press release in 2002:
"I gave into a lot of pressure on Illusions both internally in Guns and externally in the press, those albums suffered as a consequence, it's not something I'm too excited to have to live with again. There are a lot of new songs that were just done in the last year that we feel that ?okay, well that bumps a lot of stuff off the previous list but it's time to stop that now and wrap up the baby. It feels right, the timing, and a lot of things. We?ve sorted it down to what songs are on the record. What the sequence of the songs is. The album cover art is ready."


So even if Axl has a press releae tomorrow saying 'Yeah, it's done, time to wrap this bad boy up and get it in the stores' i'm not gonna wet my pants. Until I see it in stores i'm not holdin my breath no more.

Sorry to be negative.

[NickNasty]

I think someone will reach the end of their rope, whether it be a band member, record label or management if we don`t see CD by the end of 2005. So Axl`s hand may be forced (if thats possible) or GNR will be dropped and sadly thus the demise of GNR.

 In my mind, I'm all but certain this is what will happen...at some point, the other focal point of this band, IMO Tommy, is coming closer and closer to bailing as he talks to more people (including Paul talking him up about a reunion) and sees more oppurtunitie$. This year is make-or-break. And for those who say Tommy is too loyal---if one of Axl's best friends, Paul Tobias, can ditch him, ANYBODY can.

[jgfnsr]

In my mind, I'm all but certain this is what will happen...at some point, the other focal point of this band, IMO Tommy, is coming closer and closer to bailing as he talks to more people (including Paul talking him up about a reunion) and sees more oppurtunitie$. This year is make-or-break. And for those who say Tommy is too loyal---if one of Axl's best friends, Paul Tobias, can ditch him, ANYBODY can.

What are you talking about?

Tobias never "ditched" Axl.  What Paul has to contribute is more studio-oriented and so he was replaced with Richard Fortus.

[Gunner17]

I have given up on a release date...I am not going to sit here and wish it to come out by reading into what a band member said/analyze every word. I am very anxious for CD to be released, but I don't have the slightest bit of hope it ever will. Call me a pessimist if you must, but I don't take much stock in what anyone says about the release date...Not even Axl. The only thing that matters to me is when I have it in my hands...If that ever happens.

[DemocracyRose]

Instead of complaining.....

Lets say this is actually the plan!!!

When can we expect an announcement???

[Nytunz]

Instead of complaining.....

Lets say this is actually the plan!!!

When can we expect an announcement???

Mid sumer....

[Mikkamakka]

Instead of complaining.....

Lets say this is actually the plan!!!

When can we expect an announcement???

Not anytime soon

[jazjme]

I just wish someone would stand up to the guy.

Well, unfortunately the way the band is constructed no one can do that to him out of fear of being fired. This is one of the problems with constructing a band of paid employees....VS. having a band of equal partners. In old GNR, when Slash or Duff or Izzy would get on Axl about hurrying up, they could do so without fear of being fired. Now a days, if Finck or Fortus or any of them really laid into him about getting off his ass and doing something, he could tell them they're fired and aren't getting a paycheck anymore. Bit of a difference between the 2 situations.

It's like having an argument with a family member as opposed to having an argument with your boss. You are much more guarded in your comments to the boss than the family member, because the repercussions are entirely different between the 2.


Im sorry but this is like one of the most idoitic posts , dude the members make a livng doin lots of other stuff , outside GNR, they arent afraid about being fired ,  last time I talked to Richard doin a show here witha band called Pisser, in NY last month, all was good in his world, said he talked to axl the ngiht before, and is doing some things  with a few people  cause , thats what they do , they are musicians, and they are in guns cause they want to be , not for some damn paycheck you seem to elude to, thats just not how it is. YES I can see for some that you are all pissed bla bla bla.d cause , oh Axl isnt doin anything , oh blah blah blah, well I dont know about you but if other members here live in NY ,of the forum actualy went to the shows of GNR members doin thier stuff on the side and actually talked to them well then you would know. and Axl the boss comment.....oh ya know what, if it pisses you off so much then simply stop listening to GNR, easy as that.forget about them, might do you some good. Then when one day you turn on ur radio and hear the them , with a trace of oh, wait this gnr oh wait this is new, youll be excited again, I hate fuckin negative people and comments, but oh I know wha wha wha,,,,,fuck that, I dont waste my time on  bulshit, those that know me, know what I mean, and  yer it felt good to rant again. But just so you know this isnt an attack on just who I quoted, but more a generalization of how I feel about peeps thinking they know shit. Talk to me in 20 yr. Ive benn there since I was 17.
The fans are the ones left in the cross hairs because there is no one involved in the band with the power to put any pressure on Axl, which sucks because he has shown a complete inability to release music without being pushed to rap it up and get it done.

[michaelvincent]

These threads amuse me. It's like that Bill Murray movie Groundhog Day, except no one realizes that its the same day happening over and over and over. I seem to remember hearing about this album as far back as 1999 (wasn't that the year he did the Kurt Loder interview?).

1999
GnR: "There is a new GnR album coming, we're working on it now."
HTGTH: "OMFG Chinese Democracy starts now!!! It's coming!!!" *wets collective pants*

2000
GnR: "There is a new GnR album coming, we're finishing it up and you will hear it soon."
HTGTH: "OMFG Chinese Democracy starts now!!! It's coming!!!" *wets collective pants*

2001
GnR: "Its coming I swear."
HTGTH: "OMFG Chinese Democracy starts now!!! It's coming!!!" *wets collective pants*

2002
GnR: "Its almost done, we're putting the finishing touches on it."
HTGTH: "OMFG Chinese Democracy starts now!!! It's coming!!!" *wets collective pants*

2003
GnR: "It's in the final mixing stages now, we're putting the finishing touches on it."
HTGTH: "OMFG Chinese Democracy starts now!!! It's coming!!!" *wets collective pants*

2004
GnR: "It's in the final mixing stages now, we're putting the finishing touches on it."
HTGTH: "OMFG Chinese Democracy starts now!!! It's coming!!!" *wets collective pants*

2005
GnR: "It's in the final mixing stages now, we're putting the finishing touches on it."
HTGTH: "OMFG Chinese Democracy starts now!!! It's coming!!!" *wets collective pants*

And more than likely:

2006
GnR: "It's in the final mixing stages now, we're putting the finishing touches on it."
HTGTH: "OMFG Chinese Democracy starts now!!! It's coming!!!" *wets collective pants*

2007
GnR: "It's in the final mixing stages now, we're putting the finishing touches on it."
HTGTH: "OMFG Chinese Democracy starts now!!! It's coming!!!" *wets collective pants*

2008
GnR: "It's in the final mixing stages now, we're putting the finishing touches on it."
HTGTH: "OMFG Chinese Democracy starts now!!! It's coming!!!" *wets collective pants*


For me its just hard to work up any excitement over 'news' from the GnR camp these days.

[madagas]

Listen, common sense tells you, at this point, after all these years, IF this ridiculous album EVER comes out, it will be released in the fourth quarter of the year-probably November-to capitalize on maximum sales. Just forget about what anyone says because it is all meaningless until the record company and management set a release date and reveal the tracklisting. I just hope when they do set a date that they are the first major act to grab a spot in the fourth quarter. That way you make other bands and artists react to you/set their dates around yours. Of course, as always with Gnr, it will be done ass backwards.

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

Im sorry but this is like one of the most idoitic posts , dude the members make a livng doin lots of other stuff , outside GNR, they arent afraid about being fired ,? last time I talked to Richard doin a show here witha band called Pisser, in NY last month, all was good in his world, said he talked to axl the ngiht before, and is doing some things? with a few people? cause , thats what they do , they are musicians, and they are in guns cause they want to be , not for some damn paycheck you seem to elude to, thats just not how it is. YES I can see for some that you are all pissed bla bla bla.d cause , oh Axl isnt doin anything , oh blah blah blah, well I dont know about you but if other members here live in NY ,of the forum actualy went to the shows of GNR members doin thier stuff on the side and actually talked to them well then you would know. and Axl the boss comment.....oh ya know what, if it pisses you off so much then simply stop listening to GNR, easy as that.forget about them, might do you some good. Then when one day you turn on ur radio and hear the them , with a trace of oh, wait this gnr oh wait this is new, youll be excited again, I hate fuckin negative people and comments, but oh I know wha wha wha,,,,,fuck that, I dont waste my time on? bulshit, those that know me, know what I mean, and? yer it felt good to rant again. But just so you know this isnt an attack on just who I quoted, but more a generalization of how I feel about peeps thinking they know shit. Talk to me in 20 yr. Ive benn there since I was 17.

 

The theory about them 'just' being there for the money and and being afraid of being fired' is a weak one.
They are musicians for chrissake
No one could create under such circumstances.
It's not like a regular job - ya know -? with the 'boss' scenario like it's made out to be.
That should be obvious.? I mean really!? What would that be like:

begin dream sequence set in west coast studio:

- Axl phones Tommy:? ?Tommy, I was listening to (insert track name here) and we need you back in the studio.?

- Tommy:? ?Sure, sir, yes sir, no problem, sir, be right there sir.? ? Hangs up.

- Axl:? Hangs up.? That fucker better get his ass down here pronto!? I OWN him!...

- Tommy:? (to self) ?Oh man this fuckin' sucks but that fucker Jason Newsted would probably swoop down and steal my fat paycheck

- Tommy jumps in his car and speeds to studio

Five minutes passes......

-? Axl: (to self) Hm, I wonder if i could still get Jason Newsted?

One hour later....

- Tommy bursts through the studio door... sees Jason Newsted in the booth

- Axl looks at Tommy and says (a la Donald Trump):? You're fired!

- Tommy:? Nooooo!? ? My fat paychek!? ?Jason you bastard!?


 

 
It should be obvious that its not like these guys make widgets for a living.? They are musicians.? They are integral to the bands development and success.
Buckethead's departure should make it clear to you that Axl has NOT been of the attitude that "dudes, i run the show - you are all mere pons in my band.. blah, blah, blah.. .do what i say, eat shit and like it cuz I'm paying you or get the fuck out"? Seems that Axl did all he could to accomodate the musician he hired AND even after the fact seemed to leave the door open....? ?Just on what is this theory of Axl luring artists with money and being a trigger happy firing asshole boss based??

[Voodoochild]

Jaz and Eva: great posts! You're the most positive people around, and that's really cool! 
I just want to add something: just read what the members themselves said about GNR and Axl. They all loves to play with the band, even Brain. I'm pretty sure that no one needs the gnr paycheck to live - they could play with another musicians, you know...

[ppbebe]

Instead of complaining.....

Lets say this is actually the plan!!!

When can we expect an announcement???

Mid sumer....

May~June....

[blues rocker]

this topic doesn't even matter, because tommy probably didn't even say this..."some guy says that tommy said it"....whatever...this piece-of-shit band is so bad at providing info that the best news we can get is "some guy says....."? ?

i mean next there will be a thread about some guy's cousin's girlfriend's lesbian lover who heard tommy let a fart....ooooh, someone heard tommy fart, that must mean the album will be out in september...tommy's ass spoke to us!!! what the fuck?!!!!? all this shit because gnr can't provide any decent info....

fucking gnr...the least they could do is take the graphic for the 2002 tour off of their website...it just shows how little they care about getting anything done