Im getting aggravated at GNR fans

[D]

One thing that keeps pissin me off around here is the negativity.

Its like no matter what the fuck Axl releases it will never be better than the old shit.

why u ask? simply cause people have grown up with the old stuff all these years and no matter how good something that GNR puts out is, the old stuff is so sacred to so many that a lot of people will never allow the new stuff to be better.

I know music is subjective and opinions dont count, but its like i see people ripping apart "The Blues,Maddy and now IRS and it truly pisses me off.


When CD is released, even if it is 100 times better than AFD, there will be those who will never give it credit and will shit on it regardless because Appetite has this illusion around it of being insurmountable.

Maddy will always have the MLK quotes even though those are only a small percentage of the quotes in the song, the quotes piece together in a totally new innovative way of songwriting and storytelling, but Axl gets no credit for being innovative cause people cant see past the MLK shit.

IRS,Maddy and The Blues are right there with any other GNR song ever released in my opinion.

I get as excited hearing IRS *even with shit quality* as i have any other GNR song ever released, that included WTTJ,PC,SCOM,NR, whatever.

open your minds those who refuse to embrace what Axl is doing and enjoy being a GNR fan, everyone has a right to their own opinion but give it a fair chance.
i know i had to listen to Contraband 5 times before i liked over 5 songs, so give Axl that same respect
great music isnt easily digestible sometimes and it takes multiple listens to get.

so what do u say?

[Dont Try Me]

Madagascar: whole song is innovative, qoutes (awesome for the story-telling), the singing - innovative, cool drum samples. Really awesome especially when you hear the drums alone right before the story and after Axl's last wale. Really impressive. I'm sure you'll know what I mean. I let my brother hear this song......not that big fan of Guns N' Roses but he likes the most old songs from them. Anyways, I let em hear the song.... (knowing he's been to hell and back to, stuff with my family and all) and he found it awesome, he was blown away how truthfull the song was, the lyrics, and found the singing very emotional and fittfull. He listens to it much now, and can't wait for Axl to release the disc.

IRS: Awesome potentional. Very complex song. Listen to the rythm parts you can (but hardly) hear for so far I can tell it's awesome allong Axl' singing. The singing is reinvented, A whole new Axl, different style, much more complex then the old songs. No wonder why he's taking so long on cd, these songs are a whole different ball game. A higher level. Robin Finck's first solo is simple yet very effective. Bucket's schredding is a nice opposite pole in the song to the first solo. Love the way it works eachother. Then Axl's scream, can't believe he hits those notes.

Silkworms: just a test, not a good song, but it was just a test. I don't get why people hammer / bring the song up again and again as a statement that Axl's new songs sucks. It's just a TEST. They haven't played the song anymore cause they knew the song wasn't really that good right now. The song doesnt count in my final judgement.

The Blues: Very cool song, nice little piano intro, an outragious Axl scream at start ( or so he did at the tour after a couple of dates). Good lyrics. Good solo by Robin Finck. (ye ye, he messed it up a couple of times, big deal)

Rhiad: dunno what to think of this song yet.? ?

----------

Madagascar is great, IRS is great (not even in top 10 according to management), The Blues is good,

Take in consider what Brain May said about the songs he heard.

This album will be a masterpiece, people won't know what hit them once it's out. 

[Cocaine__tongue]

Well, I guess you're right D. Anything Axl releases in the future will always be compared with his previous work, but that happens with every artist.

UYI's. i LOVE both albums, and I'm happy with the fact that it is a double album, even though imo, had it been one single album, it certainly wouldn't be worse than afd.

From what we've heard and if the songs we already know make it to the album, chinese democracy will be huge, a masterpiece (if you leave out silkworms and rhyad ). A lot of people will love it, and a lot of them won't or if they do, they will think it doesn't compare in to the previous albums. Tastes are very personal........and you can't do anything about it.

Anyway, you're dead on about the negativity. Let's just hope the critics are fair and objetive when they review the stbrwh (soon to be released we hope) album.

[33]

One thing that keeps pissin me off around here is the negativity.

Its like no matter what the fuck Axl releases it will never be better than the old shit.

why u ask? simply cause people have grown up with the old stuff all these years and no matter how good something that GNR puts out is, the old stuff is so sacred to so many that a lot of people will never allow the new stuff to be better.

I know music is subjective and opinions dont count, but its like i see people ripping apart "The Blues,Maddy and now IRS and it truly pisses me off.


When CD is released, even if it is 100 times better than AFD, there will be those who will never give it credit and will shit on it regardless because Appetite has this illusion around it of being insurmountable.

Maddy will always have the MLK quotes even though those are only a small percentage of the quotes in the song, the quotes piece together in a totally new innovative way of songwriting and storytelling, but Axl gets no credit for being innovative cause people cant see past the MLK shit.

IRS,Maddy and The Blues are right there with any other GNR song ever released in my opinion.

I get as excited hearing IRS *even with shit quality* as i have any other GNR song ever released, that included WTTJ,PC,SCOM,NR, whatever.

open your minds those who refuse to embrace what Axl is doing and enjoy being a GNR fan, everyone has a right to their own opinion but give it a fair chance.
i know i had to listen to Contraband 5 times before i liked over 5 songs, so give Axl that same respect
great music isnt easily digestible sometimes and it takes multiple listens to get.

so what do u say?

I say really good post D. That is the major thing that gets to me is the negativity surrounding the GnR world which mainly comes from people who call themselves fans! Its nice to hear someone else being positive!

[Jamie]

Although it is a valid point, I can see where the 'negative' fans are comin from. GnR won over people with Axl, Slash, Duff etc. and the new band will always be compared to the old band, but many people have already dismissed the new band without even giving them a chance, only time will tell.

[Dave_Rose]

I must say I love Axl new stuff regardless of the old material I love I.R.S. cos this has been said many times if GN'R remade AFD a million times you'd soon get bored thats what I like about GN'R always changing there style of music its exiciting and keeps me interesting and I love songs like Chinese Democracy, Oh My God, Maddy, Blues, Rhiad, not to keen on Silkworms but I love them I accept GN'R are changing and for the better

[Mikkamakka]

Maddy will always have the MLK quotes even though those are only a small percentage of the quotes in the song, the quotes piece together in a totally new innovative way of songwriting and storytelling, but Axl gets no credit for being innovative cause people cant see past the MLK shit.

I don't know who made up this 'Axl's using quotes is so innovative' thing. A lot of musicians did this before, hey, Dream Theater's Space-Dye Vest which was released in 1994(!) even has a story made by quotes. So please, stop this.

[jarmo]

A lot of people won't even give the new band a chance since they're the replacement guys for their favorite members.

Back when Matt replaced Steven, I'm sure a lot of fans didn't like him because he wasn't the original drummer. Today when you read posts/comments/articles it almost seems like Matt was a really important part of GN'R. He was important, but he still wasn't there when the band started.

I guess once you get past that whole thing about the line up being new and stop hating them for that, it's easier to enjoy the songs.




/jarmo

[michaelvincent]

Madagascar: whole song is innovative, qoutes (awesome for the story-telling), the singing - innovative, cool drum samples. Really awesome especially when you hear the drums alone right before the story and after Axl's last wale. Really impressive. I'm sure you'll know what I mean. I let my brother hear this song......not that big fan of Guns N' Roses but he likes the most old songs from them. Anyways, I let em hear the song.... (knowing he's been to hell and back to, stuff with my family and all) and he found it awesome, he was blown away how truthfull the song was, the lyrics, and found the singing very emotional and fittfull. He listens to it much now, and can't wait for Axl to release the disc.

IRS: Awesome potentional. Very complex song. Listen to the rythm parts you can (but hardly) hear for so far I can tell it's awesome allong Axl' singing. The singing is reinvented, A whole new Axl, different style, much more complex then the old songs. No wonder why he's taking so long on cd, these songs are a whole different ball game. A higher level. Robin Finck's first solo is simple yet very effective. Bucket's schredding is a nice opposite pole in the song to the first solo. Love the way it works eachother. Then Axl's scream, can't believe he hits those notes.

Silkworms: just a test, not a good song, but it was just a test. I don't get why people hammer / bring the song up again and again as a statement that Axl's new songs sucks. It's just a TEST. They haven't played the song anymore cause they knew the song wasn't really that good right now. The song doesnt count in my final judgement.

The Blues: Very cool song, nice little piano intro, an outragious Axl scream at start ( or so he did at the tour after a couple of dates). Good lyrics. Good solo by Robin Finck. (ye ye, he messed it up a couple of times, big deal)

Rhiad: dunno what to think of this song yet.? ?

----------

Madagascar is great, IRS is great (not even in top 10 according to management), The Blues is good,

Take in consider what Brain May said about the songs he heard.

This album will be a masterpiece, people won't know what hit them once it's out.?

Re: Madagascar
Considering that Axl actually uses a sampled quote that the old band already used once ("what we've got here is....failure to communicate...") in Civil War, coupled with the fact that bands have been using sampled quotes in music for a long time time, I hardly consider it to be innovative. I actually find it a little contrived. The music behind that part is cool though. The whole song is cool for that matter.

Re: IRS
I don't know if anything is any more or less complex, the track is a demo, and a crappy quality one at that. How anyone can make an accurate call on that song is beyond me. Overall, I like the hook. The vocals are good, I think they carry the song and based on that (the vocals being the only thing you can really hear well) I think it would do well on radio. As far as Robin's solo....meandering crap is what it is. It goes nowhere, doesn't build to anything, and doesn't make any kind of statement in the context of the song. But, it's a demo so why give it much thought, he probably dropped it in there as a placeholder for the demo and that was that. When I demo in my home studio I tend to play everything to get the idea together and that could very well be what he did here. But, I've also heard some fairly bad soloing from Robin, so who knows. Bucket's solo...well, its Buckethead. You love it or you don't....I love it.

I can't wait to hear the final, I think it will be impressive.

Re: Silkworms
Shit sandwich. Next...

Re: The Blues
Easily the best we've heard from the new band. This sounds like the most realized song so far. The music is awesome, the lyrics are awesome, the hook is out of this world, the solo is great. It's a classic GnR tune in the making. I have a lot of trouble finding fault with this song.

Re: Rhiad
I'm with you on this one. It's kind of average, doesn't really go anywhere.

[darkmonth]

IRS,Maddy and The Blues are right there with any other GNR song ever released in my opinion.

I get as excited hearing IRS *even with shit quality* as i have any other GNR song ever released, that included WTTJ,PC,SCOM,NR, whatever.

Wow.  The ramblings of deluded Axl/GnR fans goes on.  Still baffles me sometimes.  I agree that The Blues is as good as November Rain, but Jungle, Paradise City, and Sweet Child O Mine, well they're phenomenally better than anything Axl has showcased since the new band.  Please don't talk shit just because you feel you have to defend it.

[R4tfink]

D, I hate you as well you bastard! 

Know what you mean though...why pass judgement on something that hasnt been pressed onto a cd yet?

[Wooody]

the people bashing the MLK quotes on madagascar are racists.

Fuck'em.

 

[Naupis]

Its like no matter what the fuck Axl releases it will never be better than the old shit.

Well, unfortunately this is a monster created by Axl by insisting to keep the name. If he had released all of the same material under a band name other than GNR, I don't think people would be so judgemental of the music. When you call it GNR though, it better damn well be better than Appetite for you to justify having gotten rid of the rest of your band to buiild your new vision.

The time needed to record the album has also contributed to this. Some people will hear the songs, and judge them as to whether they were worth 10 years of waiting for, not whether they are good songs or not. Appetite was recorded in 6 weeks, most fans are of the mindset it shouldn't take this long to record a classic album as you have shown in the past it is possible without making us wait all that time.

Finally, it all comes back to the name again. Had Paul McCartney released all of his solo stuff under the Beattles name, people would have judged it against the best Beattles work, and not whether it was good music or not. That is just the nature of the beast when you call yourself by a well known name like that. People have certain connotations about what GNR music should sound like, and you are setting yourself up for comparisons against your best work when you call yourself that. If he was calling this band by something other than GNR, people would not be slagging him the way they do, and they wouldn't compare every song against Appetite. That is just the way it is. He knew full well what he was getting into when he decided to replace the entire line-up with different guys.

[Carlos_f_Rose]

Maybe, it is because ... Fans love former GNR's and some of Us, are not identified with Electronic or that kinda music....

[R4tfink]

Maybe, it is because ... Fans love former GNR's and some of Us, are not identified with Electronic or that kinda music....

Yes because all of the new tracks are Electronica based arent they?

Have you heard any of the newer tracks(as there not really new now)...Like The Blues and Madagascar?

[younggunner]

Well, unfortunately this is a monster created by Axl by insisting to keep the name. If he had released all of the same material under a band name other than GNR, I don't think people would be so judgemental of the music. When you call it GNR though, it better damn well be better than Appetite for you to justify having gotten rid of the rest of your band to buiild your new vision

Can we stop with this lame ass excuse already? Even if Axl renamed the band he would still get the same attention and crtisism in regards to what he does witht he music. People would still say "hes nothing w/out Slash", these songs suck, etc.

If anything most of these new songs actually sound like somehting old gnr would do. SO its not like they are giving you something different. The problem i that your favorite guitar player got kicked out of the band. Yea it sux. But if you dont wanna move on and hold a grudge about it then why dont you all go floow that guitar player and move on...just like he did 

I just dont get why people are interested in GNR if they arent gonna give this band an open mind to begin with.

As for the amount of time it has taken. WHat do you all want the songs to sound like in order for it to be worth the wait? Explain it to me. Also, for the 1000 time we still havnt heard the singles. Those are the bands biggest songs. All the songs we have heard thus far, according to the band are "filler" songs.
To some people these "filler" songs are great, and if they do in fact turn out to be the fillers on the album, then we are going ot be very people.
Then we have the people who hate these songs. Thats fine too. But the most important thing to realize is that there is still music to be heard. So it might work out for you in the end anyway, with the big guns. BUt it mnight not either. Will you move on or stay here and bash when that time comes.

As D said, music is subjective. SO if you hate it, keep hating. HWo the fuck cares anyway. As long as me and my fellow gnr fans who actually support this new band like the songs, then thats all i care about. If some 1 who has  hard on for Axl and cant get over his braids and keeping the name, then fuck them. As long as Im rocking out to IRS, chillen with Maddy, and being blown away by the album..then its all gravy baby.

[AxlGunner]

Well, unfortunately this is a monster created by Axl by insisting to keep the name. If he had released all of the same material under a band name other than GNR, I don't think people would be so judgemental of the music. When you call it GNR though, it better damn well be better than Appetite for you to justify having gotten rid of the rest of your band to buiild your new vision

Can we stop with this lame ass excuse already? Even if Axl renamed the band he would still get the same attention and crtisism in regards to what he does witht he music. People would still say "hes nothing w/out Slash", these songs suck, etc.

If anything most of these new songs actually sound like somehting old gnr would do. SO its not like they are giving you something different. The problem i that your favorite guitar player got kicked out of the band. Yea it sux. But if you dont wanna move on and hold a grudge about it then why dont you all go floow that guitar player and move on...just like he did?

I just dont get why people are interested in GNR if they arent gonna give this band an open mind to begin with.

As for the amount of time it has taken. WHat do you all want the songs to sound like in order for it to be worth the wait? Explain it to me. Also, for the 1000 time we still havnt heard the singles. Those are the bands biggest songs. All the songs we have heard thus far, according to the band are "filler" songs.
To some people these "filler" songs are great, and if they do in fact turn out to be the fillers on the album, then we are going ot be very people.
Then we have the people who hate these songs. Thats fine too. But the most important thing to realize is that there is still music to be heard. So it might work out for you in the end anyway, with the big guns. BUt it mnight not either. Will you move on or stay here and bash when that time comes.

As D said, music is subjective. SO if you hate it, keep hating. HWo the fuck cares anyway. As long as me and my fellow gnr fans who actually support this new band like the songs, then thats all i care about. If some 1 who has? hard on for Axl and cant get over his braids and keeping the name, then fuck them. As long as Im rocking out to IRS, chillen with Maddy, and being blown away by the album..then its all gravy baby.

youngunner, you have some good posts at times that i like, but then you also have posts like this that are complete nonsense, drivel, and blatant talking-points that you are spouting that make me question wether you even read any of what you are responding to.

a couple comments: 

"The problem i that your favorite guitar player got kicked out of the band. Yea it sux. But if you dont wanna move on and hold a grudge about it then why dont you all go floow that guitar player and move on...just like he did"

um... so slash got kicked out? i thought he quit. either way, where do you see in naupis's post any hostility or 'grudge holding' concerning slash's involvement in the band?


"People would still say "hes nothing w/out Slash", these songs suck, etc. "

yes, SOME people would still say this. just as some people still say slash is nothing without axl. but i'm sure that that far less people would say this if axl gave the new band a new name. if this was a new band, with a new name, then, for instance FINCK would not be a direct replacement for SLASH. BUT, since it's still the same band, HE IS. Hence, comparisons between the first guitarist and his replacement. If the band had a new name, finck wouldn't be a true replacement, and thus pure axl fans would have a leg to stand on when bashing those who draw comparisons to the old band.

as it stands now, naupis's post is dead on. the problem is that axl wants to keep the same name, implying that the band is essentially the same (or at least in his twisted view it is still the same because he is involved and he is and was and always will be guns n roses.)

all that said, i have faith in axl and think he can put out a good record.  dont assume that everyone who dislikes the new songs are just bitter because slash isnt in them. because that is what you tend to imply (and is the sole focus of your argument). be willing to address other critiques that have nothing to do with slash (who also, coincidentally, has nothing to do with this new band)

[younggunner]

for instance FINCK would not be a direct replacement for SLASH. BUT, since it's still the same band, HE IS. Hence, comparisons between the first guitarist and his replacement. If the band had a new name, finck wouldn't be a true replacement, and thus pure axl fans would have a leg to stand on when bashing those who draw comparisons to the old band.

ANy guitarist attatched with Axl under the GNR name or not would be considered a replacement. Is he really a replacemen though? Who can replash Slash? Not many. But from the technical meaning of course hes a replacement. GNr do need guitarists to make music dont they?

I personally dont look at any1 in this lineup as a replacement for the old band. I guess thats the difference. I see 2 different eras of GNr. Old and new. We all know what the old did. But unfortunately that ended. And its not because of the new members in this band.
Then I see a new era of GNR. The name has been rebuilt with a completely different set who arent in any way like the old members.
There is only 1 similarity between the 2 bands. Each have music as thier number 1 goal. I dont care how great music is obtained, as long as its great then thats good. It sux the old couldnt work things out, but its a dead issue for a lot of yrs now. No need discussing.
New Era

dont assume that everyone who dislikes the new songs are just bitter because slash isnt in them. because that is what you tend to imply (and is the sole focus of your argument). be willing to address other critiques that have nothing to do with slash (who also, coincidentally, has nothing to do with this new band)

99% of the critism will come from the whole Slahs/old gnr fiasco. And thats fine, it will come with the territory. Like I said as long as I enjoy this band and songs, I could careless.
People will always say its missing that "bluesey feel", people will always say it doesnt sound like GNr. But none of thos epeople can tell me what GNr sounds like post illusions. So from that standpoint wheres there argument.

Who cares. if you dont like the songs..great. Stay here and moan and groan.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Like I said before the ?new songs are just as good if not better than the old songs IMO. ?Here is how I see the new songs comparing to the old.

Madagascar is on par with SCOM. Madagascar IMO is one of the best gnr songs ever top 10.
The blues is on par patience or don't cry.
CD is on par with something like out to get me, my michelle etc.
IRS is on par with YCMB.
Oh my god is just as good as stuff like double talkin jive, 14 years, dust n bones.
Riyadh is on par with stuff like bad obession or pretty tied up.
Silkworms is near the bottom but id take it over stuff like anything goes, garden of eden and songs like that.

And if Axl ever gets this album out and its great people will accept the new guys. The new guys like Robin and Tommy have been in the band just as long as izzy and steven were in the orginal band.

[Timmy]

It's pointless to compare old GNR with new GNR....

what's the phrase, apples to oranges...