The Most Expensive Album Never Made

[jgfnsr]

So this is the infamous NY Times article huh?

Thanks to those who posted the info. 

[Malcolm]

This guys a dick...First of all its made jsut not released...And Axl does what he wants when he wants, there no rulebook that says you have to release an album every so many years

[Timothy]

The one thing I would like to hear, is what Axl said after he found out the label wasn?t going to give anymore money for the album .I but that was one hell of a rant ,if it was true that is.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Well, according to the NY Times article, Geffen quit funding Axl's project & told him he was responsible for funding & finishing it himself. If that's true(and I don't have any reason to believe the NY Times would make it up, no matter what Merck, Mysteron, Dave, etc... would want you to believe), here's how I see the scenario unfolding.

Geffen orders Axl to deliver CD by xx:xx:xxxx(fill in the date - October? November?). Axl, as always, fails to deliver. Geffen then sues Axl for the 13mil they laid out, & Axl is stuck in litigation hell forever. No CD, no band, no nothing.

Guns & Roses is dying the slowest, most painful.excruciating, humiliating death ever. Anyone who still believes that Axl has some sort of plan is as far gone as Axl seems to be.

And according to merk the times article has its facts mixed up.  And if you think gnr are dying, why are you even here? If  you think we are as far gone as Axl because we think he has a plan, then just leave and you wont have to deal with us.

[welshrose]

It is easy to be negative in situations like this. I dont think this is necessarily a great situation..but it isnt terrible.

We have another person saying 2005 is the year, we have another man who believes in Axl and we have people discussing GNR again..and that aint bad

[younggunner]

fuck defending or explaining for this band. When the time comes the music will do all the talking.....man o man I hope gnr are sitting on a gem

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

so can we put calling 'the three album rumour' a rumour behind us now

Axl spoke about 3 albums...

now this here unnamed source has confirmed it!
is that good enough for you all?!!
 

[DIABOLIK]

1- ?I could be wrong but to me the article says Axl doesn't bend over for any record company or media outlet or corporate conglomerate and that makes him "difficult" and frustrates the pencil pushers who could make a few bucks off GNR if only Axl would do things their way. ?

2- ?I could be wrong but to me the article says a lot of people have been brought into the project but because of their own inabilities (and possible incompetence) have not been able to finish what they set out to do so hey, lets pin it all on Axl. ?Tom Zutuat used to be the hottest A&R man in the business and now he's unemployed and doing the talk show circuit for every lame Behind The Music episode that calls. ?A 30% bonus on top of whatever sum they agreed to if he could get the job done has to be seriously chaffing his sense of self importance.

3- ?I could be wrong but to me the article says that a lot of money has been spent on this record and the only way to recoup that debt is by releasing Chinese Democracy so when Axl feels that it is good and ready, then and only then will we be able to hear it. ?All the bitching & moaning and monetary incentives and negative pressures ain't gonna speed the process up one minute. ?

4- ?I could be wrong but I seriously doubt it when I say the NY Times article was a hatchet job written with only negative intentions towards Axl Rose and the completion of Chinese Democracy. ?Really now, what was the purpose of writing it? ?

[killingvector]

1-  I could be wrong but to me the article says Axl doesn't bend over for any record company or media outlet or corporate conglomerate and that makes him "difficult" and frustrates the pencil pushers who could make a few bucks off GNR if only Axl would do things their way. 

2-  I could be wrong but to me the article says a lot of people have been brought into the project but because of their own inabilities (and possible incompetence) have not been able to finish what they set out to do so hey, lets pin it all on Axl.  Tom Zutuat used to be the hottest A&R man in the business and now he's unemployed and doing the talk show circuit for every lame Behind The Music episode that calls.  A 30% bonus on top of whatever sum they agreed to if he could get the job done has to be seriously chaffing his sense of self importance.

3-  I could be wrong but to me the article says that a lot of money has been spent on this record and the only way to recoup that debt is by releasing Chinese Democracy so when Axl feels that it is good and ready, then and only then will we be able to hear it.  All the bitching & moaning and monetary incentives and negative pressures ain't gonna speed the process up one minute. 

4-  I could be wrong but I seriously doubt it when I say the NY Times article was a hatchet job written with only negative intentions towards Axl Rose and the completion of Chinese Democracy.  Really now, what was the purpose of writing it? 

There are no shortage of people willing to step up and take a pot shot at Axl. As Saul said, there are elements in the media that do not like the man despite what talents he may demonstrate. I believe that Leeds found a story amongst these naysayers and discharged producers/engineers. His behavior at the deadline is the most questionable aspect of the whole event.

[RnT]

the article is already roling here in Brazil

here?s the link to one of the sites more visited on the internet:

http://noticias.uol.com.br/midiaglobal/nytimes/2005/03/07/ult574u5168.jhtm

from: www.uol.com.br

[iloozion]

to me the article seems so badly researched that it throws into question how much of it is actually true and how much of it is journalistic speculation. you'd think if they'd known anything about the history of GNR they would have mentioned the release of 'Oh My God', and the fact that Buckethead is no longer in the band?!!!

[jabba2]

to me the article seems so badly researched that it throws into question how much of it is actually true and how much of it is journalistic speculation. you'd think if they'd known anything about the history of GNR they would have mentioned the release of 'Oh My God', and the fact that Buckethead is no longer in the band?!!!

Both topics were included in the article.?

[iloozion]

no they weren't

[Johnnyblood]

How many times do you think Axl has read this article, parsing out details he thinks are unfair and completely ignoring the big picture, which is the fact that there's no album and a long, long trail of people who question his work discipline? One thing that's stayed absolutely constant in these accounts over the past 5 years is that Axl is an extremely sporadic participant in the recording of, ummm, his album. Listening to 1000s of session tapes in your basement doesn't fucking count.

[killingvector]

I don't think anyone can know if the reporter is wrong or not. That is a problem. But the lack of input from someone in the know, namely some of the names mentioned connected with the album, Roy Thomas Baker, Sean Beaven, Josh Freeze, hell...Buckethead. Get us some information from these guys and i'll be more convinced.

Merck has deflected the article's pointed criticims for now. But ultilmately the effectiveness of his response is tied to a 2005 release of this album that ws never made.

[Freya]

 

But the lack of input from someone in the know, namely some of the names mentioned connected with the album, Roy Thomas Baker, Sean Beaven, Josh Freeze, hell...Buckethead. Get us some information from these guys and i'll be more convinced.

Considering that everyone who works with Axl most likely signs a confidentiality agreement, and everyone who spoke to the reporter did so anonymously, anyone of the above mentioned could have provided information for the article.  They just don't want Axl to know for obvious legal reasons. 

[Johnnyblood]

Maybe Merck was one of the guys anonymous sources! 

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

Having employees sign a confidentiality agreement as part of their employment contract...
IT IS A STANDARD BUSINESS PRACTICE.
Are there those of you who would hold this against Axl and/or the GN'R camp or anyone they do business with?

The eimployees of the studios where music is recorded are bound by these.
This is A MORE THAN REASONABLE requirement.
GOOD MONEY is paid to these places for their services and part of what is paid for IS THAT CONFIDENTIALITY.

Would YOU run a studio without this?
Would YOU hire anyone to work with /around you who you feel would violate this - their employment agreement.
Just because these people are no longer employed by Axl/GN'R/Geffen etc. does not free then to talk either.

The fact that sensitive confidential financial data (particularly salaries) is disclosed might sound like good fun to some of you -
but don't kid yourself - if it was YOUR business that was being aired out like dirty laundry you would not like it...
and you would want to know who is blabbing and yes, indeed SUE thier ass til it cries.

As for the NYTimes 'protecting' their sources being so noble = ?it's not like they're protecting an informant in a case of national security. ?We're talking about (for one) the parking lot attendant who gave them the little tidbit about Axl being 'seen' at the recording company parking lot in his silver ferrari - who knows how many of his thirty some odd sources were parking lot attendants or the janitors who sweep up the studio? ?

oh well... my point is that no one should frown on these confidentiality agreements.... ?everyone should be able to understand why, especially in this type of business, they are required. ?

[Freya]

Having employees sign a confidentiality agreement as part of their employment contract...
IT IS A STANDARD BUSINESS PRACTICE.
Are there those of you who would hold this against Axl and/or the GN'R camp or anyone they do business with?

Quite a few celebrities use confidential agreements yes, but Axl takes it to the extreme, when he tries to control the media.  The famous media contracts that he had drawn up in the early nineties, demanding a reporter's sources and such, requesting final approval over what is written about him, using his personal friends to write GnR articles, etc.  It's ludicrous to try and control every word that is written about you.  If that is not a deep reflection of insecurity I don't know what is.

Axl does have business interests to protect, sure, but it is just a band right?  It's just music?  Hopefully it's great music, but nothing about his behaviour is reasonable, Axl's control issues are pathological at minimum and completely looney at worst. 

[marknroses]

What a great article. It was as balanced as it gets. It was more balanced than that RS article from 2001 which painted a more distorted picture of the situation. Here at least it is based on testimonies - not speculations about where Axl's head was at. It doesn't really take any cheap shot at Axl, but claims that simply nobody has patience for the guy anymore and that is TOTALLY understandable the way he has carried out his "project" since 1998. Anybody here who gives this guy a break - "yes men" - are the reason, as Duff says that Axl thinks he can carry on and just not give a fuck about working with people - his fans, his bandmates, producers, studios and his record company.

Regardless of whether the nu GNR album ever comes out or not, there's no denying that Axl really messed up his career. He could have diversified and done so much - what a talent - some of you people don;t even realize that. He got too distracted with his bullshit and we fans are the ones who have to pay. 
I still love that quote about Axl running over the CDs with his car!!!?

I just wish Axl could meet me and others like me and see what his music and persona has done for all of us. I think that alone would get him motivated to put out the record, or at least reunite with the old lineup. 

How sweet would it have been if after the UYI tour, Axl could have ridden off in the sunset with Stephanie Seymour or some other hot model and lived happily ever after in such comfort. Unfortunately, it seems that I have underestimated the guy. He could have gone on record and made his claims in the article, but like time and time again, he hides. He didn't need to say anything other than there is a record and what it means to him to make it. He had an audience with the NY TIMES article and yet like he has in the past, he didn't show up.


What a pity, but I guess until then we're all just Knockin' On Heavens' Door/Dust and Bones
 

MNR