Do You consider CD a follow up to Illusions?

[younggunner]

Not me those overdone piano rockers are so boring, the newer tunes are missing good solos.. Maddy is so damn boring, the whole martin luther michael j fox civil war mix is super slow.

Then dont support the band what can i tell ya? There will definately be some cool epics on CD so I guess you wont be liking atleast a portion of the album before you even hear a note

[F*ck Fear]

The way I look at it is Live Era was the follow up,and it was called "The End Of An Era" by Axl....So Chinese Democracy would be a new era altogether.

[ppbebe]

Those quotes are awesome. Axl also spoke well to a fan after the Hard Rock shows in which he mentioned why the album is taking so long.

Yeah Madagas posts are always informative.    What did he say?

[ppbebe]

I don't think its any/much different than with the old line-up


And in the August gnronline statement he said that some could say 'hey axl you wanted control of the band (too)'...
...Axl's response "Damn skippy"   
So, its not 'equal' ... never been
Axl said a long time ago that he is the one held responsible from day one.
He's said that he is the one that steers it...   (the band)
something about how you can't have more than one driver
The album will not be/isn't any less of a collaborative effort than AFD or UYIs
It is clear from the bandmembers comments - including Axl's own - that it is everyone bringing it in. 

great quotes btw ppbebe.. you rock! 

I  think the album will be more of a collaborative effort than AFD or UYI twins.

Equal thingy is tricky. I don't think equal is the word. Are people equal in your family? Is a chairman equal to other members of the board? Is your right arm equal to your left leg? Yes and no.
To make a band function at its best, you must allow all the members have their says in music equally. One's input inspires the other. Like in this discussion, what you say makes me think. It's the same as democratic system works better than repressive one.

the spirit of GN'R remains as it has been but the band is more democratic than ever, I bet.

I wouldn't be surprised if one of his goals was to make the band as democratic as possible?.and if "they" had redone their job (finalizing CD)  until it finally gets every members absolute approval.

[Johnnyblood]

But the whole premise of this thread is whether or not CD is a follow up to Illusions.

I say it is. That's because, in the time from before Appetite to after Illusions, GNR went from being a group of five young guys with a common musical purpose to a company increasingly led artistically (through his business leverage) by Axl.

(How say I this? Thusly: No way do Slash, Duff, Izzy, Steven/Matt on their own time have any interest in piano-driven songs of 7-11 minutes, or with all the production delays for things that add nothing to the music itself... sound effects, vocal overdubs, etc. And the only reason they allow is that Axl has too much leverage to not allow it.)

So - let's remember the thread topic is "Is CD a followup to Illusions?" - there is the transition from the Appetite-era artistic approach of the band to the Illusion-era artistic approach. That is to say, from a communal-type situation that produced a very raw and simple album (which made them famous and successful), with everyone having more or less equal footing, to the executive-type situation, with Axl being President and the others being VPs, (which produced a successful album, but one much more divisive among both fans and critics).

The current lineup and album completes the transition that occured from Appetite to Illusions. It takes everything that characterized the making of Illusions (delays, 'epic' songs, perfectionism, Axl having more say than he did during Appetite) and exaggerates them.

The original members of the organization who didn't agree with Axl's vision have left or been fired and have been replaced by people who are willing to work within that structure. They've signed contracts written by Axl's lawyers which establish their role as 'employees' in GNR. They have the ability to write and offer material, but not no final say in anything.

That's why I think CD is a follow up to Illusions. I'm hoping for the best. I think it will be a better album than Illusions because everyone is on the same page.

[younggunner]

They have the ability to write and offer material, but not no final say in anything.

And that still brings us back to the old gnr days

[Johnnyblood]

The thing is, it seems like in the old days nobody had final say in anthing. Now *somebody* does. And that began during the Illusion period. That's why I think CD is a follow up to Illusions. It's the whole concept of *somebody* having final say.

[younggunner]

The thing is, it seems like in the old days nobody had final say in anthing. Now *somebody* does. And that began during the Illusion period. That's why I think CD is a follow up to Illusions. It's the whole concept of *somebody* having final say.

I think during the Illusion period Axl began to have the "final say" on things. Whether it was music, tours, etc.? Except for Duff, do you think the old members wanted My World on the album? DO you think they wanted to use pianos, do epics, ballads? So in that regard Axl did have the final say.

And in comparison to today. Its the same thing. Everyone jams, contributes, and makes suggestions. when its all said and done Axl will either shoot it down or put it in...

[Johnnyblood]

I think during the Illusion period Axl began to have the "final say" on things. Whether it was music, tours, etc.? Except for Duff, do you think the old members wanted My World on the album? DO you think they wanted to use pianos, do epics, ballads? So in that regard Axl did have the final say.

The precisely what I was saying. Illusions was where Axl began to have final say. He had more power and he exercised it. You gave a great example with My World. You could add Look at Your Game from TSI. I think this has been finalized with the current lineup and album. That's my whole point as far as CD being a followup to Illusions. It completed the process of Axl being a member of GNR to the president. He wasn't president of GNR in 1987. In 1991 he wanted to be president, except there was resistance. Now in 2005, he is president and there is no resistance. He has all the business power he needs to control the artistic end of things.

[younggunner]

got ya ...and agree

With that being said though...we dont know if members of the band have shot down potential songs being on the album or not.

[Johnnyblood]

That's true. I suppose when the album comes out we'll hear more about the creative process of individual songs. That will tell a lot about the new band and how it works.

I know we both have the same high hopes for this album, too. 

[ppbebe]

I'm yet to know who in the new band has the last say on CD and who in the old band had it on Illusions or AFD, except Axl.
Nevertheless, as I said earlier, my bet is
Spiritual side: it's sorta follow up to Illusion twins. with deepened thoughts. "The School of Athens"
Material side: No.
There's no need to bring up the same subject in the same way. but I've done that 3 times on this topic.
Damn.

[Lady Livin]

>> The precisely what I was saying. Illusions was where Axl began to have final say.

Axl has included not-so-welcome tracks on their releases since Lies. He did it with "One in a million" on there, "My World" on UYI II, and "Look at your game" on TSI. I'm sure there are others, though.

[ppbebe]

Never did the other way round? I mean, aren't there any tracks Axl didn't like so much but the other member did?


entre nous, Silkworms just come across my mind...no, I mean the moth 

[jameslofton29]

Under no circumstance can CD be considered a followup. CD must stand on its own legs. Even if CD is 2 albums released on the same day, like Illusions, it sill fails to meet the definition of a followup.

[hyperionmax2003]

Posted on: Today at 06:40:44 PM Posted by: jameslofton29 
Insert Quote
Under no circumstance can CD be considered a followup. CD must stand on its own legs. Even if CD is 2 albums released on the same day, like Illusions, it sill fails to meet the definition of a followup.


Agreed.  I think of it as a "reinventing or reimagining" of the band.  The sound for Chineese Democracy seems a little too... I dunno.  The sound itself is just a different vibe. 

[jameslofton29]

Even the fact that its different band members isn't the reason why its not a followup. If the band had done something in 95 or 96, even with a different lineup, it probably could have been considered a followup. But too much time has elapsed. And with Axl being the only relevant member left, CD's success or failure will fall on Axl's shoulders. I wish him the best of luck.

[mrsaxlrose]

too much time has gone by for it to be a follow up....plus, its not even the same band.   I also see it as basically an Axl solo album.

[jameslofton29]

I agree, Mrs. Rose. Lets say 12-14 years goes by after CD release without another album. I wouldn't consider the next album  to be a followup to CD.

[DoubleTalkingJive]

^^I agree with both of you, definitely too long, this is more like Axl's solo comeback album.