Do you think the ex members get frustrated..?

[younggunner]

but again I just don't think the circumstances are anywhere near the same. Axl has had 10 years and a budget of 13 million dollars to make this project his dream project in every way. Slash and them had to get that record together and get the ball rolling as they didn't have the time and money sitting around Axl did (from the record company) to put together their dream album.

They "had" to get the record out? They didnt have the "time and money" to put their dream album together? Are you serious? WHo forced them to release an album when they did? Its one thing to be forced into something and anohter to do what you want. VR did what they wanted to do. Get a band, make a record and get out on the road asap. No1 forced them to do it that way. Just like no1 is forcing Axl to release anything.
Vr have their way of doing things and GNR have theirs. Its by total choice. Mayny of you remind us that no matter how long GNr take to put out an album it doesnt guarantee it will be good. SO why is it different now when comparing what the ex members did with a different frontman and what Axl did with different players?

Contraband is a decent album, but I bet if they spent 3-5 years on it without worry of finances and the need to get their band name out there that they would have done more to make it a better album. They were in a hurry to get that show on the road as the documentary showed. They didn't have a record deal they were sitting on from when they were in the biggest band in the world that basically gave them an unlimited set of finances and time in which to create an ultimate album. Not that that would even have been their goal anyway, but it is a whole nother world making a debut album under the circumstances VR did as opposed to the circumstances new GNR are dealing with now.

In case you forgot, the members of Vr except for maybe Kushner come from big time bands. Meaning they have enourmous amounts of denaro. You keep implying that VR were being rushed. It was by their own choice. If they were so concerned with taking their time they could have each funded the sessions with their own material and made the album "they wanted" to make. and then sell that album to the lables and basically get their investment back. Although Axl got a  huge advance, im sure he has gone into his own pockets in funding the band and whatver it needed cash wise. SOme have speculated he sold his rights because he needed more cahs or wanted to recooperate some cash....

If your gonna back away from the GNR Vr musical comparison your being a lil biatch. The game gets a lil ahrder when your band gets compared to tough competion as opposed to beating up on these putrid rock bands. Same with gnr. They will be compared to the old material{heavyweights/legends} and vr. Plus we can for once and for all see how each of the members of old gnr have done without each other and see where that lands ius in the grand scheme of things when observing both eras.

Huh?  What the hell do "Different goals, marketing etc" have to do with the GNR comeback?  And for that matter, what the hell's wrong with an Aerosmith-type existense?  This is speculation on my part, but it seems you're expecting a "biggest band in the world, accepted by all" type of reemergence, is that safe to assume?

Not at all. What i mean is look at the MC comeback compared to what the GNR comeback will be. MC put out a GH album and toured on their past. Just reliving the past.

Gnr will be putting out their own material and touring on that material with a completely different band. I am also assuming the sound of the material and band will not be like the old gnr sound in terms of classic rock. Theres a big difference.

[Naupis]

If your gonna back away from the GNR Vr musical comparison your being a lil biatch. The game gets a lil ahrder when your band gets compared to tough competion as opposed to beating up on these putrid rock bands. Same with gnr. They will be compared to the old material{heavyweights/legends} and vr. Plus we can for once and for all see how each of the members of old gnr have done without each other and see where that lands ius in the grand scheme of things when observing both eras.

Hypothetical for you. New GNR does not make a song better, more timeless, or universally loved than SCOM, Jungle or NR. VR doesn't make a song better than any of those either. Doesn't that make both projects failures in your game as neither were able to capture the brilliance singularly that they captured as a unit? How does that solve the question once and for all? Won't it just lead to another pissing match with each side using subjective ideas about what makes a good song when comparing new GNR and VR?

Meaning they have enourmous amounts of denaro. You keep implying that VR were being rushed. It was by their own choice. If they were so concerned with taking their time they could have each funded the sessions with their own material and made the album "they wanted" to make. and then sell that album to the lables and basically get their investment back. Although Axl got a  huge advance, im sure he has gone into his own pockets in funding the band and whatver it needed cash wise. SOme have speculated he sold his rights because he needed more cahs or wanted to recooperate some cash....

You must not know much about the music business. As an artist, you never pump a ton of your own money into a project as it is money you will never see back. Record companies just don't hand out huge bonus's now to non-rap artists. You saw the show, the guys said like 4-5 labels showed up to their audition. It's not like they were offering huge advances for a band that was anything but a sure thing at the time. So assuming the guys spend all of their own money as you are implying to make a good album, if it doesn't sell well they have then pissed away their money as the band is worthless. No one does that, you play with house money off the bat and hope you get to a point you get good advances where you can truly make the kind of albums you want.

I guarantee if Axl didn't have the adavance for a GNR album to work with on a contract signed when the band was beyond popular, we would have CD and this whole thing wouldn't have been a 5-10 year fiasco of a debut album. You know that as well as I do. He wouldn't have pumped 13 million of his own cash into that project, and you know that as well as I do. He may have been cut off at this point so he is using his own cash, but that is no one's fault but his own. This whole thing of comparing debut albums is ridiculous because the circumstances surrounding the making of each couldn't be more different. Axl himself has complained about labels not giving out money to newer acts, yet you think labels were going to pony up millions to pay VR back for an album no one knew would for surely sell millions of copies? I know you don't believe that.

[noizzynofuture]

Yes the old members have probably felt more frustration in the last 10 years than anyone. ?

They had to wait out axl only to find out that he wanted to go in completely different direction than they did and eventually had to move on. ?There's no doubt that the ex members respect axl's talent, as evidenced in the BTM special, but to hold onto their integrity and sanity they had to make a decision to cut their losses. ?I don't blame them whatsoever, good move.

Slash and Duff made a tough decision to make scott their lead singer and it's worked out great- ?see grammy award, sellout crowds and great record sales. ?But it seems they're starting to see some flaws as just recently slash has chosen to go with seperate managment and there are rumors of some strife between slash and weiland, of course they're denying any problems but you can see the shit starting already, poor fucking slash, first axl and now weiland.

IMO, i think weiland is a good frontman with allot of charisma (he's a poor mans axl, all show and not allot of go) but i think he's a flake who isn't stable in anyway. ? I'm not a vr fan but i respect the fact that they're out there and i say enjoy the ride as long as you can cus i don't think it'll be a long ride.

If axl ever gets the balls to release CD let the comparisons start but until then .......................

[younggunner]

New GNR does not make a song better, more timeless, or universally loved than SCOM, Jungle or NR.

I can already check a new gnr song off for 1 maybe 2 of those characteristics...Madagascar

Doesn't that make both projects failures in your game as neither were able to capture the brilliance singularly that they captured as a unit? How does that solve the question once and for all? Won't it just lead to another pissing match with each side using subjective ideas about what makes a good song when comparing new GNR and VR?

If CD is left in the dust by AFD, and or the Illusions then it will tell me that old gnr were magical and in order for that magic to be there all the members need to be there. I have already heard and already know how the ex members are without Axl, now Im anxiously awaiting hear how Axl is with a new lineup. Ive been saying that all along.
I never said compare the song for song. I said compare the body of work and see how Axl did with the a new lineup and how the ex members did without Axl.

You must not know much about the music business. As an artist, you never pump a ton of your own money into a project as it is money you will never see back. Record companies just don't hand out huge bonus's now to non-rap artists. You saw the show, the guys said like 4-5 labels showed up to their audition. It's not like they were offering huge advances for a band that was anything but a sure thing at the time. So assuming the guys spend all of their own money as you are implying to make a good album, if it doesn't sell well they have then pissed away their money as the band is worthless. No one does that, you play with house money off the bat and hope you get to a point you get good advances where you can truly make the kind of albums you want.

So then your saying VR, musical legends, let record companies bitch them around and dictate when they should deliver their material?
Please dont make it seem like VR were forced to make a record in a short amount of time. THAT WAS WHAT THEY WANTED TO DO. DId you not watch the show? They kept saying how they wanted to get out on the road and just make music. Thats Slashs whole motto. Its nto wrong but dont say thats not the case.

I guarantee if Axl didn't have the adavance for a GNR album to work with on a contract signed when the band was beyond popular, we would have CD and this whole thing wouldn't have been a 5-10 year fiasco of a debut album.

Or if Axl really didnt care what he put out and just used the gnr name he could have dumped albums out left and right as well.

He wouldn't have pumped 13 million of his own cash into that project, and you know that as well as I do. He may have been cut off at this point so he is using his own cash, but that is no one's fault but his own.

That alone should tell you all Axl cares about is the music. The guy is so focused on making music{whether it turns out good or not} that he is taking everything he has and pouring it into this band. He waited till the right band came along, the right sound and then did his thing with it.
HES CHALLENGING HIMSELF.

yet you think labels were going to pony up millions to pay VR back for an album no one knew would for surely sell millions of copies?

They recieved a nice contract and I highly doubt companies thought VR would be a failure. There are too many stars in that band, the names alone will sell and atleast break even on the investment....anything after that is gravy

This whole thing of comparing debut albums is ridiculous because the circumstances surrounding the making of each couldn't be more different.

No its not. Im not saying you have to like 1 or the other. You can absolutely enjoy both.

The circumstances surrounding each album and band were created by the band members themselves. Isnt that why old gnr broke up? SLash and the boys didnt wanna deal with Axls procrastination and direction and Axl was the opposite. They each went their separate ways. They each are making music the opposite of each other. When both albums are out we will be able to see where each memebr stand in regards to each other. And its a completely fair comparison. DOnt be shy get in the ring

[norway]

yo, most people who heard the new band doin the old songs -
feel many are even better than the originals?

me2 

[jgfnsr]

I echo the above, all talk surrounding the Axl/strength of the new band/material is all speculative.

Until (if) there's a release, there's no comparison to base opinions on.

I think some of the faithful here are looking for Axl to come back as the High Priest Of Rock, take back the throne and the like. ?

Simply put, it's not going to happen.

History shows us this, ?the torch is always passed to the young. ?Does anyone in their right mind think
the 43 year old conductor of an 8 piece orchestra will take a place at the forefront of the music scene
in these days of less is more?

Please, no arguments of "If the material merits it he will" propaganda, it's baseless in fact.

I believe an Aerosmith type comeback is more than a possibility, continued success through the twilight of a career would be fantastic. ?

A musical revolution not scene since late '91 in the states or '77 in Great Britain you ask?

Forget about it.

....

and then there are others, maybe to be considered among "the faithful," who aren't expecting or even desiring a comeback of that kind; i.e. to mainstream acclaim, etc.

What these "faithful" are looking for is an album that is worthy of everything that has surrounded it and the man behind it.

(And perhaps for a select few on this board to acknowledge it if and when it does? )

[Falcon]

New GNR does not make a song better, more timeless, or universally loved than SCOM, Jungle or NR.

I can already check a new gnr song off for 1 maybe 2 of those characteristics...Madagascar

I thought you said you weren't expecting new GNR's music to be universally accepted?

[younggunner]

thought you said you weren't expecting new GNR's music to be universally accepted?

When did I say that?
I have no clue if they will be universally accepted. Thats up to them not me. But Maddy definetly fall sinto the timeless gnr category and is as good as some of gnrs classics. The universal part remains to be seen. I doubt a song like Maddy will get commercial acclaim anyway...just like estranged, coma,locomotive...its a fans classic

It would be nice to see gnr get universally accepted if their music warrants it.,...but cant tell you if it will...i dont have a crystal ball in front of me

I think some people are missing the point here...

The challenge for Axl is to live up to and, if at all possible, surpass what Guns N' Roses has done musically.

Hell, I fully expect him to utterly fucking crush the solo-efforts of his former bandmates. 

And that includes Contraband.

agreed

[jgfnsr]

I think some people are missing the point here...

The challenge for Axl is to live up to and, if at all possible, surpass what Guns N' Roses has done musically.

Hell, I fully expect him to utterly fucking crush the solo-efforts of his former bandmates.?

And that includes Contraband.

[Falcon]

thought you said you weren't expecting new GNR's music to be universally accepted?

When did I say that?

"This is speculation on my part, but it seems you're expecting a "biggest band in the world, accepted by all" type of reemergence, is that safe to assume?"

"Not at all"

[younggunner]

This is speculation on my part, but it seems you're expecting a "biggest band in the world, accepted by all" type of reemergence, is that safe to assume?"

"Not at all"

Dont get Booker on me. I was adressin the beginning of that quote. But to completely answer the question....
I have said all along GNr are more of an underdog in the commercial world than a favorite. They have many people out there who refuse to accept this band and think its a joke. Hence the uphill climb. So in that regard the red carpet will not be rolled out for GNR. They will have to earn it.

[Falcon]

This is speculation on my part, but it seems you're expecting a "biggest band in the world, accepted by all" type of reemergence, is that safe to assume?"

"Not at all"

Dont get Booker on me. I was adressin the beginning of that quote. But to completely answer the question....
I have said all along GNr are more of an underdog in the commercial world than a favorite. They have many people out there who refuse to accept this band and think its a joke. Hence the uphill climb. So in that regard the red carpet will not be rolled out for GNR. They will have to earn it.

Wasn't getting nit picky, just needing clarification.

I don't think there an underdog (dead horse) by any means, they'll sell a couple million records on curiosity alone.  "Classic Rock" and "Real Rock" formats in America will play the hell out of them, just like they do now.  I hear GNR daily on these type stations, mostly AFD era but GNR nonetheless..

[younggunner]

Wasn't getting nit picky, just needing clarification.

No problemo

I don't think there an underdog (dead horse) by any means, they'll sell a couple million records on curiosity alone.? "Classic Rock" and "Real Rock" formats in America will play the hell out of them, just like they do now.? I hear GNR daily on these type stations, mostly AFD era but GNR nonetheless..

I disagree. Im not saying nobody will by the album Because they will sell the album in droves. Like I have been saying all along, the name, mystique and curiosity factor will be a great promotional tool for th eband initially. No doubt and no argument here. But in order to reach crazy album sales the music will have to bring the album home.

You cant deny the fact that many peopel out there think gnr are a joke. A part of the fanbase thinks this nevermind the public. Blabbermouth and all these magazines and sites are always making fun of gnr. All Im saying is that people think its the cool thing to diss gnr. So from that standpoint gnr have an uphill climb in winning over the peopel who have doubts about this band.


As for what stations will play th enew guns material. I have no clue. I need to hear the singles and hear how they sound. The classic rock stations will spin them becuase its gnr. The question is will the krocks of the world play them. ANd that depensds on the sound of axl and the band. My guess is that it will be a modern sound, hence them gettin gon all formats of rock....time will tell

a mind blowing all out catchy chorus/anthem rocker for the 1st single will do the trick though....

[norway]

the media and general public will always do that 2 very sucesfull people and well established bands...
which gives outsiders (bands with potential) more freedom...

there's alot of britney spears dissing 4 xample, vr don't get dissed like that because they are not in that commercial league, gnr is seen as this or a topact by the general public and gets same treatment as britney, imo tho?

axl rose and oldgnr is legendary in the history of music, gunsnroses has yet 2 be, and i hope they do well?

[D]

Falcon if GNR have an Aerosmith type comeback axl will regain the throne

Aerosmith had their greatest selling albums to date during their comeback

I believe axl would dip into his own pockets, didnt he say he wanted to buy the NR video back and not let anyone watch it?

Axl wants to make the record he wants to make regardless of how long or how much money.

the record label probably has given him advances for 3 records not just 1

if he has 3 records completed, the 5 or 6 years wont be that long.


Motley Crue released a greatest hits plus have their original members.

also no band, not even GNR put on a spectacle theatrical show like Motley Crue.

rumor has it Tommy will ride a rollercoaster while doing his drum solo

now that is entertainment!

[leesixxrose]

Young gunner..

your a fucking trip......

your trying to compare whos better a singer with nothing to show for his last few years but a tour with all old songs a few shitty new ones and the "promise" of a great album...


OR


The Band that just played and won at the Grammys, has a Platinum album, Headlining tour
and they are now talking about a new cd out before Christmas....




YEAH The old members are REAL Fucking Envious of Axl Rose.....


The old members just wanted to make good rock music that mattered to people... if success came with it then thats a bonus....  Thats EXACTLY what they have done and Axl Rose has not...

Slash said he wanted "longevity" as one of his goals in the music industry.. Thats what hes gonna get with his new band.... Sorry i know you dont like it but its the truth..

If you like VR or not nobody really cares... Thier music means alot more to people than Axl Rose sitting on his ass in his fucking hollywood hills does...

 
Seriously dude... pull your head out of your ass....

[leesixxrose]

New GNR does not make a song better, more timeless, or universally loved than SCOM, Jungle or NR.

I can already check a new gnr song off for 1 maybe 2 of those characteristics...Madagascar

Dude seriously are you fucking dumb??  Madagascar more timeless or universally loved than SCOM or JUNGLE or RAIN???

your talking about a song you have heard on a bootlegged album and a snippet of it on the VMA(shit performance) awards....

compared to to songs that are UNIVERSALLY LOVED AND TIMELESS..... 

maybe thats why i hear MADAGASCAR on the raidio so much..(go ahead and tell me that the radio is shit and thats why they dont play that song, or coz its unreleased)

do you jack off to pictures of Axl Rose everynite???

[*Izzy*]

Im not saying you have to like 1 or the other. You can absolutely enjoy both.

Exactly.?
I don't think the ex- members get frustrated.... they will be when CD comes out though?

  Izzy?

[Pandora]

do you jack off to pictures of Axl Rose everynite???

You don't need to stoop so low to prove your point. Behave yourself or you're out.

[ppbebe]

Stoop? That?s just a reflection of ones life.

the media and general public will always do that 2 very sucesfull people and well established bands...
which gives outsiders (bands with potential) more freedom...

there's alot of britney spears dissing 4 xample, vr don't get dissed like that because they are not in that commercial league, gnr is seen as this or a topact by the general public and gets same treatment as britney, imo tho 

axl rose and oldgnr is legendary in the history of music, gunsnroses has yet 2 be, and i hope they do well 

Good point. Perhaps for their eyes Axl is forever young, bad boy and rebel.
That's it.
And In fact unlike other legendary bands today, GN'R is a challenger again.