Axl Rose signs Publishing Deal

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

Yes, Duff's attorney is essentially admitting that their claim that Axl left the partnership is bullshit. That claim could have already been dismissed by the judge. However, there were more issues involved in the suit than that. In all lawsuits, when writing a complaint, you ask for anything and everything...some things can get dismissed while certain "counts" can remain.

I just had to check.  The lawyer named in the article is Glen Miskel -  indeed the same attorney that filed suit on Duff's behalf "Johnson & Miskel"
Well... Slash and Duff has been acknowledging Axl's rights FOR YEARS during which they claim he had none... and now Duff's attorney is following suit. (pun intended  )

[killingvector]

Axl has done this purely for the $$$. All future CD tracks will be at the mercy of Santuary to decide if the want FOX to play Chinese Democracy during they're TV commercials, or fat guys in a Wendys commercial eating a hambuger, and smiling while Madagascar plays. Or a commercial with babies in diapers running around while November Rain is playing.

Sanctuary is free to whore the new music out, with potential of making millions more than what Axl recieved. Would you call this brilliant?

if you think it's purely for the money, why wouldn't he go with the publisher who offered him the most money? do you really think axl has been so tight on the gn'r material just so he could, all of a sudden, let it all go and get whored down the drain??? 

very good point - 
this has been pointed out several times in this very thread...
aparently some board members keep forgetting this detail...
i believe the fact that Axl did not simply go with the highest bidder speaks volumes...
coupled with the fact that money has not been a motivating factor for Axl ALL these years...
elsewise he would have allowed the numerous deals Slash and Duff say he blocked AND he would not have protested the GH...
AND he could have put out X numbers of albums or material that were not up to his standard JUST FOR THE MONEY
he has NOT done so
these may seem to be small details but they are KEY...
on top of all this - AS HAS BEEN POINTED OUT - Sanctuary Group's other relationship with Axl/GN'R as Sanctuary Managmenet is a strong indicator that Axl and Merck have a good relationship and one which Axl apparently has confidence in as he has now joined the Publishing company as well.

Slash and Duff are only trying to protect they're past music. Theres no cold hearted intention to sabatoge Axl. They are still suing for full control of the past catalog,(which is a little more cold hearted)

I'm a bit confused on the quote... but to be clear
SLASH AND DUFF ARE SUING FOR FULL CONTROL OF THE ENTIRE GNR' CATALOGUE - the want to CUT AXL OUT
WHICH AMONG US COULD SAY THIS IS UM... RIGHT?  MORAL?  NICE?  FAIR?  or um... UN-ASSHOLELIKE?   

the fact that Sanctuary's lawyers find more likely that Axl has the rights

Mr. McKagan?s lawyer more likely finds that Axl has the rights.
In Regard to the comment of Mr. McKagan?s lawyer on the article

McKagan's lawyer, Glen Miskel, expressed surprise when told of the Sanctuary deal. He said Rose, Slash and Duff were part of a partnership and "neither Sanctuary nor Axl Rose have provided the remaining partners with a copy of that agreement."

Also SLASH's management said, according to  the webmaster of the Official Slash Fan Site

There are three signatures required on every deal: SLASH, Duff and Axl. Since Sanctuary bought Axl's share for 20 years from now on every deal, there has to be approval by Sanctuary, SLASH and Duff

Here they are clearly stating Axl is a partner and has the rights.
I must take back my words on my earlier post. (Damn it, I should have completely erased that rumourboard version from my head!) Now Duff and Slash's side is asserting that the assets Axl handed over to Sanctuary dose exist.
Was it like this before this deal emerges?

Now we think the same. I think that there are two possibilities: Axl sold his parts - then it has nothing to do with Slash N' Duff. But if Axl sold all the rights (I'm a bit sceptical that 1/3 of the GN'R rights would worth 20 million), then further lawsuites will take place.

that is right - Axl sold his parts - as the press release stated:  his "contributions"
as the statement from SLASH managment confirmed - Befor this deal deals required Axl/Slash/Duff signatures...
now instead of Axl's signature, deals will require Sanctuary's signature - along with Slash and Duff's
Slash and Duff still have their rights!

as far as the deal being for 1/3rd - that is not necessarily the case - there is nothing to indicate that licensing fees / royalties were split evenly among the members.  The only percentage I recall regarding crediting was the formula Slash came up with where Axl 'owned' 42% (of AFD I believe it was).  Though this likely does not apply to the entire catalog (as recall TSI was covers) it shows that there was not necessarily equal splits of credit/renumeration qpplied.  Whatever Axl's share of the rights is, Sanctuary certainly is in the right business to know what its worth - for the old material AND future material.  We can not discount the value of the furture material as I'm sure this represents a major portion of what they consider marketable.  And listen - as i posted earlier in this thread - publishing/licensing income INCLUDES THE MONEYS THE RECORDING COMPANY PAYS PER UNIT -  this means that furture shares of sales/distribution of cd's of the past catalogs AND of the new material goes to Sanctuary.

This is not all about movie soundtracks and commercials.  The publishing deal covers the mechanical licensing - t-shirts, lyrics printing, AND THE ACTUAL CD'S.  That is my understanding from reading though several music industry articles and resource websites.

i was under the impression that the 42% number was writing credits for the old material, namely AFD, and not his publishing share.

I wonder what monies Axl gets from CD now; he gets royalties for being the principal writer of the material. Does he retain any publishing royalities for CD? I wonder how much these monies are compared to the writing credits. Maybe $19 million was too low a figure to accept.

[erose]

since the deal is to contain new material, i think this is actually what makes this deal interesting and even worth mentioning not to mention the basis of the deal in the first place. This deal would have never been made purely for the old stuff...

the fact that the old stuff is thrown in the deal is basically so that axl has one part to relate to i would believe, not one for the new stuff and one for the old stuff.

Duff and Slash will allways be in the way(if one could say that ), but that would have been the case with or without sanctuary...

Maybe the new deal will give each member better royalties of the old shit too, which means it could actually be a good thing for all three parts, and former parts too...

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

i am under the impression that the song credit split is proportionate to the copyright ownership split

so if it was agreed that the lyrics were worth 30% of the credit/ownership and the melody was worth 10% and the guitars 30% and the bass/percussion another 30% (just for the sake of example) then a song/composition could be split between 5 members like so:
1)? Axl - 40%
2) Slash - 15%
3) Izzy - 15%
4) Duff - 15%
5) Steven - 15%

its is my understanding that these percentages which would represent shares of ownership in a song... (each song is owned seperately)

another composition could have been like so:

1) Izzy 45% (lyrics and 1/2 of the guitar work)
2) Axl? 10% (melody)
3) Slash 15%
4) Duff 15%
5) Steven 15%

in this case if this song was granted license by those holding the control (A/S/D) then Izzy would make more $ off of the licensing fees...
edited to clarify - for the SONG/COMPOSTION... not including the recording

as soon as you write a song you own the copyright or a portion thereof depending on how much ownership you are credited with.
Just because Izzy/Steven do not have a vote in the GN'R partnership does not mean they do not get paid for when their songs are used.? That would not make any sense.? Your copyright does not expire til like 50 years after you die (or something like that)

I believe that Axl's deal with Sanctuary includes:?

1)? His one vote? of the three that are required for a deal to be approved for licensing (ed: for the gnr catalogue)
2) His percentage of the money that would be paid to him based on his percentage of ownership for any given song in any given deal.
    (ed:  for the past gnr catalogue and , according to the press release, for new songs also)

so lets say tomorrow GN'R is offered a deal that is worth $1 million to the copyright holders of the compositon/song itself
(the way i understand it the recording copyright is seperate and inolves the recording company)

Sanctuary, Slash, and Duff approve it.

Lets say it is a song for which the first scenario above is the split of the song ownership.

This is how the moneys would be split:

Sanctuary:? $400,000 -? (of this $200,000 goes towards paying down Axl's advance)
Slash:? $150,000
Izzy:? $150,000
Duff:? $150,000
Steven:? $150,000

this is ALL SPECULATION on my part of how this stuff works based on various informaton and articles i have read
i'm sure it's way more complicated...? ?but the idea i'm formulating is that percentage credit = percentage ownership = percentage of $$

as far as controllng rights - it seems clear that those are held by Axl Sanctuary/Slash/Duff
but the value of the publishng rights (the money) is not equal.... and does not exclude Izzy/Steven or anyone else who contribtued to the song(s) compositon.

[D]

for 19 million that deal would have to include a lot more than just axl's 3rd of the partnership

i think maybe sanctuary will receive axl's royalties from future  back album's sold also

think about 19 million dollars, there is no way u could make up that kind of money

say u get a million for a commercial split 3 ways they would get 333,000
 movie soundtracks dont pay that much

so i think there has to be more to this deal

either they will get all future royalties of axl's

or axl sold them the entire publishing which isnt legal forhim to do.

its gonna be interesting to see what happens.

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

for 19 million that deal would have to include a lot more than just axl's 3rd of the partnership

just what do you think the "1/3rd" of the partnership is comprised of?

I believe it is just his ONE of THREE votes
money wise i believe they are banking on the value of his portion of the copyrights on the songs

I think maybe sanctuary will receive axl's royalties from future? back album's sold also

think about 19 million dollars, there is no way u could make up that kind of money

say u get a million for a commercial split 3 ways they would get 333,000
 movie soundtracks dont pay that much

so i think there has to be more to this deal

either they will get all future royalties of axl's....

at whatever cut off point is determined - yes, i believe that the publisher receives the mechanical licensing fee per unit sold (whatever axl's portion of that is that would have been paid to him say for a copy of AFD sold (say next month) will go to Sanctuary - and i believe half of that goes towards paying down Axl's advance.
Axl will still receive the same way he has before his money/rights as the recording artist on the album.
the deal only covers the songwriting rights so Axl still recieves his recording artist royalties from the recording company.

same goes any new material covered under this deal


and apparently Sanctuary IS in the proper position to know what its worth...
in fact they say the expect to earn 50 MILLION pounds ... so its 'worth' even more than "19 million"

...or axl sold them the entire publishing which isnt legal forhim to do.

the press release/statement does say his 'contributions' and the comments that Lesty posted by the sanctuary record guy on her local radio station which includes the words "most of appetite" would indicate that the deal is for only part of - not the eintire publishing rights of the group's work.? Also recall the comments from Slash's management:?
Slash then went on to say that... his share ... is "too valuable".

contribution... most... share....? ? does not equal "all"?

[Nytunz]

I am pretty sure that, when i asked Tommy in Oslo, what recordcompany they should use, he said Sancturay!!

[R. R. Dadfield]

This is confusing.  No wonder Duff says he wants to write a book about the music industry, to explain all this to new bands.  It's enough to make you cry.

And does this impact on CD?  That's what I'm worried about.

[February]

I didn't had the time to read the whole document Jonx posted i can analise over the weekend if you think it's worth, it would be interesting to read the original agreement were Slash and Duff give Axl full onership of the name GNR and presented as exhibit A.
what they're claiming is breach of this agreement by Axl, basicaly.
But they do agree in the claim that Axl is full owner of the name GNR and everything produced under that name after 1995, it's all about the old songs, in the end they require a judge to rule that ownership of the name doesn't mean ownership of the "products" done under the name, therefor "no veto vote" for Axl on all rights to ?the "product" meaning songs, prior to 95, but veto vote for Slash/duff. More interesting Duff is head of the pleintifs but it's stated then while the initial agreement worked Axl and ?Slash had decise vote if agreeing, duff would work only if they come to a dead lock.
It all depends on what's determined ?on exhibit A, on the matter ,and the interpretation of the judge, i'm gessing that the request for an injuction was not allowed if it was Axl couldn't had made the deal with sanctuary or it would be a serious offense to the court, jugdes don't like that at all...

feb

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

This is confusing. No wonder Duff says he wants to write a book about the music industry, to explain all this to new bands. It's enough to make you cry.

And does this impact on CD? That's what I'm worried about.

Yes the deal includes axl's songwriting/composing rights to CD

if for some reason the deal as it stands were affected - it would have to be re-done/revised before CD could be published/released.

[ppbebe]

I am pretty sure that, when i asked Tommy in Oslo, what recordcompany they should use, he said Sancturay!!

Considering GH release didn?t require any approvals from SLASH, Duff and Axl of the partnership
I thought it should be the natural conclusion.

[R. R. Dadfield]

This is confusing. No wonder Duff says he wants to write a book about the music industry, to explain all this to new bands. It's enough to make you cry.

And does this impact on CD? That's what I'm worried about.

Yes the deal includes axl's songwriting/composing rights to CD

if for some reason the deal as it stands were affected - it would have to be re-done/revised before CD could be published/released.

Oh God.  No.  Please...just...make it stop.

[Christos AG]

QUEEN BIG IN THE ROCK CANON 
The following is taken from an article about Sanctuary Music Groups in The Times:

Sanctuary said that it did expect to generate about ?50 million from exploiting Guns N? Roses hits through film soundtracks, cover versions and their use in advertisements.

Deke Arlon, Sanctuary?s head of publishing, said: ?After The Beatles and Queen there doesn?t come much bigger in the rock canon than Guns N? Roses. We spent years trying to find the right deal and we are delighted with acquiring a slice of rock history.?

The notoriously unpredictable Axl Rose signed with Sanctuary after months of negotiations through his lawyers. Although rival publishers are believed to have offered more, Rose felt more comfortable with Sanctuary?s business plan.

Sanctuary has also secured the rights to Chinese Democracy, the new Guns N? Roses album and all future Rose material. However, the album has no release date 12 years after work began. The effort has cost other labels ?6 million and seen off eight producers.

Brian May contributed to sessions for G n'R's long waited Chinese Democracy album several years ago. It is unclear whether any of his recordings will be used.
 
http://www.queenonline.com/news_item.php?article=1443192

[ppbebe]

As to The Times article, I was wondering about a few trifles.

"We spent years trying to find the right deal and we are delighted with acquiring a slice of rock history."

years.....

The notoriously unpredictable Axl Rose signed with Sanctuary after months of negotiations through his lawyers. Although rival publishers are believed to have offered more, Rose felt more comfortable with Sanctuary?s business plan.

Jolly good!
And They heard how Axl felt through his lawyers?

Sanctuary has also secured the rights to Chinese Democracy, the new Guns N? Roses album and all future Rose material. However, the album has no release date 12 years after work began. The effort has cost other labels ?6 million and seen off eight producers.

Is ?6 million = ＄8 million? Or 13million?  Numbers always confuse me.

[norway]

Is ?6 million = ＄8 million? Or 13million?? Numbers always confuse me.

The effort has cost other labels ?6 million
the total cost makin new music, regardles of labels is reportedly 13 million

The notoriously unpredictable Axl Rose signed with Sanctuary after months of negotiations through his lawyers. Although rival publishers are believed to have offered more, Rose felt more comfortable with Sanctuary?s business plan.

so sanctuary cannot whore out music as they wan't, as they have 2 follow the terms axl and sanctuary agreed on in the contract, when using the material

Rose felt more comfortable with Sanctuary?s business plan. so he's "interest" or requests in terms of use is covered in the contract?

at least thats what i read out of this,
good news, the music is done, issues regardin publsihin and legalities is done only artwork left? ?
  we're gettin there...? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? lol, i'ts back again...time 2 let it out now and let it do some "damage" ?

[ppbebe]

The effort has cost other labels  ?6 million
the total cost makin new music, regardles of labels is reportedly 13 million

Quite the contraries. IMO the articles read

The effort has cost labelS (Geffen +?)other than Sanctuary ?6≒$11 million   ------The Times(Feb '05)
The effort has cost a label (Geffen) $13 million                                               -------Reuters(March '04)
My bad,   ?6 is≒$11 actually

that 13million report came out from a news item of Reuters on the GH suit.

Geffen officials had no further comment on the dispute. But a source familiar with the situation said the label has been waiting seven years for Rose to deliver "Chinese Democracy" and has poured $13 million into production of that album after repeated promises that he was about to finish the project.

the source was as reliable as "a source familiar with the situation". we may as well take the other words "the Anonymous informant" told Reuters with a pinch of salt.

And what are other labelS?
Anyway, they can?t leave out Geffen's contribution to the effort, can they?

[norway]

IMO the articles read

The effort has cost labelS (Geffen +?)other than Sanctuary ?6≒$11 million? ?------The Times(Feb '05)

?The effort has cost other labels ?6 million and seen off eight producersthats right from the article who knows? a lot of money 4 sure

[jarmo]

Axl's Alienating Deal

by Charlie Amter
Feb 2, 2005, 7:35 AM PT



Has Axl Rose been studying How to Lose Friends and Alienate People?

The famously reclusive rocker signed a multimillion-dollar publishing deal last month with the Sanctuary Group--much to the chagrin of former Guns N' Roses bandmates not in on the deal.


The nearly $20 million dollar publishing deal with Sanctuary, announced late last week, spans GNR's entire back catalog, including such megahits as "Sweet Child of Mine" and "Welcome to the Jungle."

Sanctuary Group, which is currently expanding its publishing arm, also works with artists such as KISS, Morrissey and Lou Reed. Rose's deal with the company's publishing unit, Sanctuary Group PLC, will also cover potential future royalties from forthcoming material, should his comically long-delayed GNR record, Chinese Democracy, ever receive airplay upon its theoretical release.

Warner/Chappell previously looked after the band's publishing interests.

The original members making up Guns N' Roses drifted apart in the mid-1990s--leaving the band's legacy perennially in dispute between former members Slash, Duff McKagan and Izzy Stradlin (Slash and Duff now play in Velvet Revolver) and Rose, who continues to play (or not play as is more often the case) under the GNR banner.

Slash and McKagan filed a still-pending lawsuit against Rose in 2004 over who controls the rights to GNR's money-generating back catalog. The band's studio albums have all gone multiplatinum and its songs are among the most-requested in the publishing biz. GNR tunes recently turned up--along with Axl's vocal acting talents--in 2004's biggest videogame release, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas.

McKagan's lawyer, Glen Miskel, was caught unaware of the deal, per an Associated Press report Tuesday.

Miskel claims Rose, Slash and Duff are part of a partnership and "neither Sanctuary nor Axl Rose have provided the remaining partners with a copy of that agreement."

Although Rose seems to be acting on his own in signing the new GNR deal, Miskel says the "November Rain" singer has no authority to do so.

However, it's possible the singer was only signing a deal for his portion of GNR publishing, according to music publishing sources.

Meanwhile, Tommy Stinson, sometime GNR bassist and former member of Minneapolis rock legends the Replacements, told the New York Daily News last week that the revamped GNR is nearly finished with Chinese Democracy.

But fans of the band long ago learned not to hold their breath regarding news of an imminent release of any new GNR studio set.

Despite the band's open feuding, Duff, Slash and Rose joined up last year to sue Universal to block the release of Greatest Hits. The band lost, and the album wound up debuting at number three on the Billboard 200 and going platinum.

http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,15830,00.html





/jarmo

[erose]

he mentiones izzy, but izzy hasn't anything to say in this case right? 

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

However, it's possible the singer was only signing a deal for his portion of GNR publishing, according to music publishing sources.

ya think!   
 

well... suppose we should be glad they acknowledged the obvious