Gotta Get Something Off My Chest for 2005

[killingvector]

Why do you give Axl the benefit of the doubt for everything he does but you automatically assume the worst about VR?

I don't give Axl the benefit of the doubt. He has some major explaining to do for Philly, but he has damaged his own career more than he's shaken my faith in him producing a great album.

When has the members of VR stooped to Axl's level of telling them to suck their dick and all the other nonsense he spouted off?

Axl has hardly been as active in the media as Slash/Duff/ Matt. Since the 2002 tour ended, Axl has not said one word about the old band; i am certain his agent has been approached fairly regulary for reaction. As I explained earlier, I felt that there had been somewhat of a ceasefire after the GH lawsuit, mainly because neither party were doing much press. But in the run up to Contraband we have seen many jibes at Axl from the old GnR members. 

As for your question, perhaps you should watch the rerun of the Howard Stern show on which VR performed. Axl is described as a crazy, balding man with scary eyebrows. It was quite a slanderous interview despite matt's attempt to appear unbiased at the end of the segment. In addition, Slash and Duff hosted the Power Hour, I believe a show in Canada, in which numerous questions about GnR and Axl came up. They were extremely bitter over the loss of the name and insinuated that axl had soiled the name of the band; at the end of the segment, they mentioned that lawyers were looking into the events surrounding the transfer of GnR name ownership to remedy the fact that they were swindled out of the rights.

Most importantly what has Axl done to deserve your undying support and what has VR done to earn your wrath?

1. I didn't appreciate the timing of the lawsuit, simply because it was filed during the publicity run up to CB and after the appearence of the new GnR band. The major events covered in the suit had occurred several years ago, yet Slash and Duff finally paid a lawyer to look into it. Strange. To me, it seems bitter and desperate.

2. Several statements from VR members have bothered me. In addition to the Power Hour and Howard Stern appearences, there are, among others, the following interviews

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=13175.01

in which Slash effectively blames axl for the band's breakup: "Nobody involved with Guns wants to blame Axl, but there's no one else to blame. That's a tough one. " even though later Slash admits there was a time he couldn't play guitar because he was so doped up on heroine, thus leading credence to Axl's theory that he took control of Guns b/c no one in the band was in control of themselves. http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=15203.0

There was another recent interview in which Slash flat out stated that Axl was to blame for the breakup. Misstruths. Misstatements.

Thankfully duff corrected the piece that stated Axl didn't write any of the music for GnR, despite pleas from people in this forum that the original statement was true.


There are others, but i'm a bit too tired now to look them up.


 

[killingvector]

Thats pure, unfounded speculation on your part, and its not based on any kind of solid logic.  VR was doing fine in the publicity department - what did this lawsuit accomplish for them in terms of publicity?  The train of thought behind your speculation is incredibly silly.  We both understand that the lawsuit is probably with merit.  And we both know that it was ready to be filed...Now, if the suit happens to be ready in the weeks/months prior/after VRs album release, do you suggest they delay the whole thing?  And why would they do that?  The answer is: so people like you dont jump to conclusions.  Then you have to ask yourself, should they care what people like you think?  The suit has merit, its ready to be filed - file it.  Why waste time?

Perhaps it is speculation, but much less speculatory than the assumption that Axl wigged out before Vancouver and Philly; that he personally submarined the US tour because of some mental disorder. As for my rampant speculation, celebrities are very media and image conscience. Chalking up the timing to coincidence is very naive. At worst, the suit gives Slash and Duff the opportunity to answer the questions about axl's control over the band, past and present, with the confidence that they are fighting back. As i said, this should have been settled years ago. I believe its existence was a reaction to Axl using, or abusing, the GnR name.
I don't believe they were sitting on it for seven years; but they certainly had no qualms about taking some shots at Axl's ship as they constructed their own fleet.

Is the lawsuit with merit? Well, we have only seen the Slash/Duff brief. Without seeing Axl's response how can you judge how meritous the suit is? It seems very silly to me to presume that their case has founation without seeing the rebuttal.

[Booker Floyd]

Axl is described as a crazy, balding man with scary eyebrows

 

Yeah, by Howard Stern?

I dont think Slash or Duff really said anything about Axls hair or eyebrows in the Stern interview. ?Scott made a few comments, though...maybe youre just transferring your anger?

Misstuths. Misstatements.

Ah...so this is the "slander" thats hurt you so badly...

Why did Slash leave GNR?
Why did Duff leave GNR?
Why did Matt leave GNR?
Why did Izzy leave GNR?

Nothing dishonest about those "slanderous" statements after all. ?

[killingvector]

Statements were made by Scott, Matt, Slash, and Duff, irregardless of what howard stern said.

Scott made the eyebrow mention btw.

[killingvector]

Here is the Duff that I know and love:

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=648

McKagan was asked his thoughts on the current Guns N' Roses--and Sorum added his two cents. "It's not Guns N' Roses, you know? [Axl] should have probably done his own solo record," said McKagan. "In saying that, also, I do wish him the best. We went through a lot together and I still have a lot of love for the guy. It's a shame that there's a...he's doing a lot to...there's a lot of bitterness..."

I miss that love and tolerance these guys had for each other. My wish was that we would hear more about the great things they did instead of what caused them to fall apart. Petty insults and lawsuits make it hard to remain a fan.

[Booker Floyd]

Statements were made by Scott, Matt, Slash, and Duff, irregardless of what howard stern said.

Ive got the interview right here on my computer, and I havent heard any statements made by Slash, Duff, or even Matt on Axls hair or eyebrows, despite heavy baiting. ?Howard says "It does appear that Axl has lost his hair and has some sort oh hair weave."

Slash: "I have no idea"

And Matt actually ends the Axl plastic-surgery/balding discussion with his statement (after Scott commented on the eyebrows), when he could have easily jumped in and carried on.

But some statements they did make:

"Our memories [of GNR] are pretty good" - Duff

"When I left, [GNR] was still kind of cool" - Slash

So let me ask you, what are you trying to demonstrate to me?

b. I am basing my feelings on weak foundation.

And I think Ive done a good job explaining why.  And I dont think chalking the timing of the suit to coincidence is naieve at all.  Because when you assess the situation rationally like I did in that post, you start to realize 1) that any percieved sinister plot is just ridiculous.  If they would have prepared a press release and that kind of shit, then sure, youve got something to bitch about.  But they didnt publicize it, and it wasnt really publicized...period.  A few brief mentions on some websites.  Thats it.  2) If there was one time they didnt need extra publicity, it would be those months prior to Contraband.  3) Like I said, most of the instances specified in the suit are fairly recent, just like Duffs finance education and subsequent understanding of GNR business dealings is fairly recent.  Taking these relevant facts into consideration demonstrates that the timing itself isnt a coincidence, but the timing in relation to the albums release could very well be coincidence.

Also...

but much less speculatory than the assumption that Axl wigged out before Vancouver and Philly; that he personally submarined the US tour because of some mental disorder

Youre right...which is why Ive never subscribed to such a theory.  But your comparison suggests that you recognize that both are weak...You just choose to believe one anyway, and thats why somebody might suggest a bias.

Without seeing Axl's response how can you judge how meritous the suit is? It seems very silly to me to presume that their case has founation without seeing the rebuttal.

As far as I know, the suit hasnt been dismissed, so Im assuming its with merit.  That doesnt mean I think one sides right or wrong.  Just to clarify.

[PhillyRiot]

Here is a quote from Will I found interesting:  "Maybe because there's a wide range of musical opinions on any musical board? Being a fan of GN'R (past or new) doesn't mean you have to like VR."

I just wanted to ask the question to GNR fans of the past a question.  If you like the GNR that put out Appetite, Lies, and UYI I&II, how can you not like songs like Sucker Train Blues, Fall to Pieces, and Slither?  These 3 songs are a brand of rock we love and haven't heard in a long, long time.  It must be a matter of absolutely hating Weiland and not giving the man a chance.  I say this b/c the 3 songs I mentioned, musically, have that great old school GNR rock sound. 

I think a lot of the AXL diehards are new fans.  Fans that perhaps were in diapers when the Old GnR rules the entire music scene.  Fans who one day saw a man playing guitar in a KFC hat and thought "Man, that is so cool."  But I think the majority of old GNR fans could appreciate Contraband.  I don't know, mabey I am wrong, but that is my gut opinion.

[jarmo]

To respond personally to this thread, I don't "hate" VR, I'm simply not a big fan of their album and certainly wouldn't mention it in the best albums of 2004 (matter of taste, I thought 2004 was pretty weak musically, except for U2). If I had to give a few reasons, I would first mention the main one why I don't really dig VR: Weiland. I don't like his attitude, his voice, his lyrics, and I really don't like at all the way he "moves" on stage. I may have a different opinion if they had a different singer. I think Slash and Duff are great in VR (even though I preferred what Slash did in GN'R) and they're a good live band (seen them on the US tour - had to see Slash and Duff live). Besides Weiland, I would say some songs really do sound alike (just my opinion) and sound unfinished or rushed or whatever.

I have a similar opinion. Just becaue I happen to think the new band Axl has is talented and I think they're capable of doing great things together, doesn't mean I hate VR. I just didn't think "Contraband" was the 10/10 album so many of you thought it was. I still can't get into certain tracks on that album. I also have a "problem" with Weiland. I just don't consider him the great rock n' roll frontman so many VR fans consider him to be.

I've seen the band twice live and I'm supposed to see them three times in two weeks. They put on a great show, that's for sure. But the album still doesn't do it for me.

People just assume that I hate Duff and Slash because I happen to think Axl's not the only one to be blamed for what happened....

We stood in line for about three hours to get "Contraband" signed by the band in London the day after their show. But I guess I hate them. ?

I just wanted to ask the question to GNR fans of the past a question. If you like the GNR that put out Appetite, Lies, and UYI I&II, how can you not like songs like Sucker Train Blues, Fall to Pieces, and Slither? These 3 songs are a brand of rock we love and haven't heard in a long, long time. It must be a matter of absolutely hating Weiland and not giving the man a chance. I say this b/c the 3 songs I mentioned, musically, have that great old school GNR rock sound.

I like those songs.

Maybe Slither a bit less than the two others

Actually, one of the tracks that I thought "WTF?" about when I saw the title is one of my favorites, "Do It For The Kids".




/jarmo

[Will]

how can you not like songs like Sucker Train Blues, Fall to Pieces, and Slither? These 3 songs are a brand of rock we love and haven't heard in a long, long time. It must be a matter of absolutely hating Weiland and not giving the man a chance. I say this b/c the 3 songs I mentioned, musically, have that great old school GNR rock sound.

As far as I'm concerned, I didn't say I didn't like the album at all or any of the songs. The songs you mentioned (especially FTP and Slither) were great live and I think they're good songs. My point though was that you don't have to like VR because you're a fan of GN'R (old and/ or new line-up). Again, I don't dislike the band. I just think I would appreciate it more with a different singer (Cornell for instance would have done it for me, but he's already taken).

I think a lot of the AXL diehards are new fans. Fans that perhaps were in diapers when the Old GnR rules the entire music scene. Fans who one day saw a man playing guitar in a KFC hat and thought "Man, that is so cool." But I think the majority of old GNR fans could appreciate Contraband. I don't know, mabey I am wrong, but that is my gut opinion.

I disagree with that statement. I know lots of Axl die hard fans who have known the band before the nineties. I actually don't know a lot of "new fans" (post 95). I'm sure there are on the board but I don't they're the whole base of the new line-up fans.
Like I said above, I don't think the fact that you've liked GN'R for 10 or 15 years or whatever means you're gonna like/ love VR. Sure, Slash and Duff are great in VR like I said earlier, but Weiland is a huge barrier for lots of old GN'R fans who may not like his voice/ style/ lyrics, etc. Personally, I never really liked what former members have done outside GN'R (Snakepit, Ju Ju Hounds, Loaded, etc.), except for VR. But I do think they were good as hell in GN'R and they have come up with melodies/ songs that meant something to a lot of people.

[PhillyRiot]

That is fair enough Will.? The lead singer is obviously a huge part of any band.? Weiland is not as good as Axl, and I totally agree with that.? Unfortunately there are not more front men with Axl's raw talent.? I do think Weiland is the #2 or #3 hard rock frontman at this time.? But Axl is by far #1.? That is why I get so frustrated that he is a recluse.

[Top-Hatted One]

That is fair enough Will.  The lead singer is obviously a huge part of any band.  Weiland is not as good as Axl, and I totally agree with that.  Unfortunately there are not more front men with Axl's raw talent.  I do think Weiland is the #2 or #3 hard rock frontman at this time.  But Axl is by far #1.  That is why I get so frustrated that he is a recluse.

He not even the 2 or 3rd best of all time. More like the 20th or 30th but does that mean you can't enjoy contraband?! to be #20 out of all the singers in the world, most who don't ever make it is pretty damn good!

[killingvector]

And I think Ive done a good job explaining why.  And I dont think chalking the timing of the suit to coincidence is naieve at all.  Because when you assess the situation rationally like I did in that post, you start to realize 1) that any percieved sinister plot is just ridiculous.  If they would have prepared a press release and that kind of shit, then sure, youve got something to bitch about.  But they didnt publicize it, and it wasnt really publicized...period.  A few brief mentions on some websites.  Thats it.  2) If there was one time they didnt need extra publicity, it would be those months prior to Contraband.  3) Like I said, most of the instances specified in the suit are fairly recent, just like Duffs finance education and subsequent understanding of GNR business dealings is fairly recent.  Taking these relevant facts into consideration demonstrates that the timing itself isnt a coincidence, but the timing in relation to the albums release could very well be coincidence.

That is fair. I admit the possibility does exist and is plausible. I appreciate your attention to my comments and the maturity with which you received and responded to them.

In this divorce, it is very difficult to hear these guys use the media to tear into one another. My feelings toward VR are quite fluid; I am hopeful that one day the bitterness I feel towards them will recede and I can appreciate their contribution to a dull, horizonless rock scene.  The current and ex Gunners need to demonstrate respect to all Guns N Roses fans, past and present, by moving past these petty criticisms and the desire to express ill will to one another.

[jgfnsr]

I have a similar opinion. Just becaue I happen to think the new band Axl has is talented and I think they're capable of doing great things together, doesn't mean I hate VR. I just didn't think "Contraband" was the 10/10 album so many of you thought it was. I still can't get into certain tracks on that album. I also have a "problem" with Weiland. I just don't consider him the great rock n' roll frontman so many VR fans consider him to be.

My thoughts exactly.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

That is fair enough Will.? The lead singer is obviously a huge part of any band.? Weiland is not as good as Axl, and I totally agree with that.? Unfortunately there are not more front men with Axl's raw talent.? I do think Weiland is the #2 or #3 hard rock frontman at this time.? But Axl is by far #1.? That is why I get so frustrated that he is a recluse.

He not even the 2 or 3rd best of all time. More like the 20th or 30th but does that mean you can't enjoy contraband?! to be #20 out of all the singers in the world, most who don't ever make it is pretty damn good!

He is not even the 20th, its is probably near the bottom of the top 100 at best.

[Top-Hatted One]

That is fair enough Will.  The lead singer is obviously a huge part of any band.  Weiland is not as good as Axl, and I totally agree with that.  Unfortunately there are not more front men with Axl's raw talent.  I do think Weiland is the #2 or #3 hard rock frontman at this time.  But Axl is by far #1.  That is why I get so frustrated that he is a recluse.

He not even the 2 or 3rd best of all time. More like the 20th or 30th but does that mean you can't enjoy contraband?! to be #20 out of all the singers in the world, most who don't ever make it is pretty damn good!

He is not even the 20th, its is probably near the bottom of the top 100 at best.

not what you were saying before it was official that he joined VR

[TK1]

I think Weiland is really good.  I know he never had the worldwide popularity the GN'R guys did, but in the US, he's been pretty successful for awhile.  He obviously doesn't have the vocal range Axl does, but his voice is pretty good and he's got a lot of charisma.  I've seen him live and he is great in concert.  I think he's one of the better frontmen out there today without question.  He'll never reach the global, rock God status Axl achieved, but I think he probably appeals to a younger crowd more than Axl does.  I'm not saying he's more talented or better in any way.  I think it's based on the fact that Axl is, to many people, a late 80's / early 90's star while Weiland's success and popularity is much more recent.  I'm one of the people who really supports both bands, so don't interpret that as a derogatory comment to Axl.  I'll be first in line when CD finally comes out....

[PhillyRiot]

Hold on here!  I said Weiland was #2 or #3 at this time.  Not all-time!  I am not even sure Axl is the greatest frontman of all-time.  I think he is the most talented, but Mick Jagger has contributed more to rock n' roll than Axl.

[TK1]

I completely agree; I'd pick Jagger as the best frontman of all time...

[tomass74]

VR fans do know that non gnr/axl fans also don?t like Contraband, think they are overrated and that the album is mediocre.? If this album was put out by another band that did not have former gnr members you would all not like it as much.?

Who the fuck are you to tell people what they like or not? I do believe that these guys have released plenty of albums in the past that people weren't very excited about. People do not pretend to like the Snakepit albums (although I like the 1rst one). You are right, not everyone likes VR..There isn't a band out there that everyone likes.  Just because you think the album is Mediocre as you have said 6 thousand fucking times doesn't make it so for everyone else.. And if you think the only reason the album is successful is because there are Ex Gn'r members and not for the music you are wrong. If that was the case, it would have sold it's 250,000 albums the first week then dropped off the face of the earth. It would not be selling 50-60,000K a week 6-7 months later...

[tomass74]

Actually, one of the tracks that I thought "WTF?" about when I saw the title is one of my favorites, "Do It For The Kids".

That used to be my least favorite track on the CD besides Spectacle...I used to skip them both, then all of a sudden "DIFTK's" grew on me for some reason and I like it alot. Spectacle is still kind of ehhh. My cousin insists that it rules though so I am trying. There is some cool guitar I guess in there but it's all mixed to low. They probably could have left Spectacle off the CD..