Gotta Get Something Off My Chest for 2005

[Booker Floyd]

But in this divorce, I have not been endeared to Slash, duff, or matt by virtue of their inconsistant accounts of the breakup

Whats been inconsistent?? The reasons for them leaving have been pretty clear for awhile now...Theres more than one lone reason for sure, which is what I assume many fans confuse for inconsistency.? Slash says he left because of Axls musical direction in one interview, and then blames it on Axls behavior in another - what a hyopcrite!? Or perhaps theyre two of many reasons...Most of which Izzy (and Steven) also believes.

But youre welcome to share inconsistencies youve observed.

and their slanderous statements about the redhead.

Again...not sure whats been so slanderous about their comments, but okay...

He has at least kept his mouth shut about these issues for the last two years.

The last two years.? Within the two or so years prior to that, he talked about the ex-members in, I believe, every one of his high-profile interviews (Im talking about Rolling Stone, not a 5-minute Seattle radio station).? Hes dedicated a fair share of press release space to Slash the "liar."? Then theres the concert rants...So the "last two years" qualifyer youve used is an arbitrary and dishonest device to overlook the fact that, yes, Axl has badmouthed the other members, just like theyve badmouthed him to you.

However, I do appreciate you admitting that your outlook owes a great deal to hero worship.?

[Mikkamakka]

I think MNR is merely stating the obvious.? The breakup was a divorce. It is natural that the fan base would be divided with our heroes. Slash and Duff have turned me off by their actions: the lawsuit, the endless bashing of axl in interviews, and a very mediocre, blase album. I'm glad they got their shit together but not for a second do I believe they didn't do their damnest to prevent Axl from taking the new Guns N Roses to Rio in 2001.

Don't you think it's a little hypocritical to hate VR for their actions but yet continue to have little to no problem with Axl's actions?

Dave, I think most of you Axl fans confuse VR fans dislike towards Axl's actions with hatred for the man himself. I think don't hate him but they do hate his actions.

and what exactly are axl's actions to which you are referring? Philly? No one knows what happened there. The Erin-Stephanie saga? Once again we don't know the truth. Is Axl a saint? of course not. But in this divorce, I have not been endeared to Slash, duff, or matt by virtue of their inconsistant accounts of the breakup and their slanderous statements about the redhead. He has at least kept his mouth shut about these issues for the last two years.

The no show-ups (do you think that there is any other great artist on the Earth who wouldn't show up for 2 of his 15 gigs? I don't care what the causes were, cause it's just not hapenning with anyone else.)

Aborted shows and riots

His acting during the performances (to tell the truth he acts like a jerk if he doesn't find everything 100% flawless)

His comments about the ex-members (these were more harsh than Slash & Co's comments). these even includes the BH press release and his words after Finck left

Thinking he is GN'R

Unable to say that he made a mistake (only that his biggest mistake was having too much faith in the betrayers...)

Unable to deliver an album in 7+ years.

edit: I almost forgot about the lack of communication with the fans.

These are the things I don't like in Axl. Some of them are not new at all, he acted like this in the AFD-UYI days, too. I don't hate him, no way, but yeah, I hate some of his actions. But not the man.

But why I am still his fan is his incredible talent and voice.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

The hypocrisy on this board by certain people continues and it?s funnier and funnier by the day.

I think it is safe to say you are one of the only people on this board who is obsessed with this supposed hipocrisy. I understand though its hard for a guy like you to come around here with an ounce of credibility though given how many times you've gotten egg on your face after all of your "guarantees" for GNR related things that continue to come and go. At what point will you come over to the darkside with all of those that have their eyes open and realize it is possible to be a Huge VR fan, GNR fan, and Axl fan all in one? It is completely retarded that there are people on this board who refuse to enjoy the VR ride given it is all we have for now and the forseeable future, as I think even the most ardent Axl worshipers are starting to realize that the likelihood of seeing that album any time soon/at all is becoming less and less likely by the day. To each his own though, their loss. I wouldn't worry about it Mark.

Egg on my face, how did I ever get egg on my face? I am? sorry but I dont like this albums release date rule my life like some people do.? Like I have always said, it comes out when it comes out.? ? And how can people enjoy VR if they dont think the album is good? Its like someone telling you why cant you enjoy the BSB album.

could it be that they are miffed at him for suing Axl over the rights to the old guns n roses songs that they all have a share of

For all of your talk about hipocrites on this board I would think you are being totally Naive if you don't think Axl would do the exact same thing to those guys in a heartbeat if a lawyer went up to him and told him he thinks there is a way to get more control of the songs and put it to the other guy in the process. You know as well as I do Axl would be all over that if the situation presented itself, and he has shown that through his past actions. Slash/Duff are doing nothing Axl wouldn't do himself or already hasn't done.

or could it be because contraband is a very mediocre album.

This again is totally subjective, for most of the same people who think Contraband blows think songs like OMG, Silkworms and some of the other less than impressive new GNR songs are outstanding. Fans of either faction can easily convince themselve's mediocre songs are better than they actually are, because admitting otherwise would basically go to show that 6-7 years of staunchly defending one side or the other was wasted.

Yes music is subjectie and that is why people like MNR just cannot fathom.? Godforbid some people just might not like VR and the album contraband. You should go check some non gnr message boards a lot of people do not like VR.? Go figure.

Like I have said before sorry not everyone has your taste and MNR tates in music.


And Mikkamakka sorry Axl didnt not whore himself to the media like slash does, but Axl does not crave attention and doesnt let the media know everytime he wipes his ass like slash does. When Axl has news on the album, he will tell us, its that simple, there is no point of him saying, no its not done yet, or still working on it, what is the point of that?

As for Axls two no shows, one was plane trouble and the other we will never know. Concerts get cancelled all the time, hell VR cancelled a few shows, the only difference is some idiotic gnr fans think its cool to riot when a show get cancelled.

[Top-Hatted One]

most people don't let the wait for the album ruin their lives but it sure seems like you do

[Acquiesce]

I think MNR is merely stating the obvious.? The breakup was a divorce. It is natural that the fan base would be divided with our heroes. Slash and Duff have turned me off by their actions: the lawsuit, the endless bashing of axl in interviews, and a very mediocre, blase album. I'm glad they got their shit together but not for a second do I believe they didn't do their damnest to prevent Axl from taking the new Guns N Roses to Rio in 2001.

Don't you think it's a little hypocritical to hate VR for their actions but yet continue to have little to no problem with Axl's actions?

Dave, I think most of you Axl fans confuse VR fans dislike towards Axl's actions with hatred for the man himself. I think don't hate him but they do hate his actions.

and what exactly are axl's actions to which you are referring? Philly? No one knows what happened there. The Erin-Stephanie saga? Once again we don't know the truth. Is Axl a saint? of course not. But in this divorce, I have not been endeared to Slash, duff, or matt by virtue of their inconsistant accounts of the breakup and their slanderous statements about the redhead. He has at least kept his mouth shut about these issues for the last two years.

I see you have no problem with giving Axl the benefit of the doubt by saying we don't know the truth but yet you won't extend that same courtesy to the rest. Why?

What bad actions am I talking about? Well, Axl has a boatload of bad actions under his belt. There is so much more than what you mentioned. I admire and respect his talent but he's not the most respectable man in music.

I was more referring to his failure to release an album. You say you were disappointed in VR's album, and that's fine. I just wonder how you can lose respect for VR for their album but yet continue to respect Axl? He is the one leaving all of you diehards desperately waiting for CD year after year, but never comes through. He is the one who never acknowledges your undying support.


Axl has kept his mouth shut these last two years because he's holed up in the studio somewhere. He doesn't talk about anything period. It's not because he has taken the higher road, it's just because he is simply not ready to get back in the press.

When he was in the press and touring, he felt free to talk as much shit as often as possible. You Axl fans had no problem looking the other way when he would go on one of his juvenile rants, but as soon as the ex-members or anyone else for that matter (Conan anyone?) say anything remotely negative towards Axl you all throw a hissy fit. Why is it ok for Axl to talk shit about anyone but as soon as someone says something that isn't flattering to him they are automatically branded an asshole?

When does Slash and the boys ever stoop to Axl's level, telling him to suck their dick? They simply tell their side of the story, which? just happens to be un-flattering to Axl. They rarely ever bash Axl, if they ever do it at all.

I just simply don't understand how so many of you can write off VR as the bad guys, but yet continue to blindly support a man who hasn't done much to earn your undying support.

If Axl fans truly can't get into VR's music that's fine, but it seems so many of you can't get into it because you simply won't allow yourselves due to your Axl fanaticism. I just find it interesting that it's the most diehard of Axl supporters that dislike VR while everyone else seems to enjoy their album.?

[dave-gnfnr2k]

most people don't let the wait for the album ruin their lives but it sure seems like you do

How do I let the album ruin my life? I am the one who keeps saying it comes out when he comes out. I dont make threads crying about the album not being out.  Unless that post was not directed toward me. Like I have also said, there are a lot of great bands and albums out there, go check them out. 

[otgm]

It still beats me how someone can really claim that Contraband sucks but at the same time enjoy downright bad songs such as Oh My God, Rhiad & The Bedouins or Chinese Democracy? Well I guess it's all a matter of taste.

I really enjoy GNR's music (talking about the real GNR) including "Axl's babies", but most of the new songs just suck ass. When added that Axl's voice blows nowadays, there really is no point for me to support nu-GNR. I'd respect this Axl's "thing" a lot more if he would drop the GNR name.

Axl hasn't talked that much shit about VR or any of the old members but frankly, I don't see any reason why should he? I thought it was mostly his choice to get rid of the old members by bringing in a new guitarist (Paul Huge) against everyone elses will.

[killingvector]

It still beats me how someone can really claim that Contraband sucks but at the same time enjoy downright bad songs such as Oh My God, Rhiad & The Bedouins or Chinese Democracy? Well I guess it's all a matter of taste.

I really enjoy GNR's music (talking about the real GNR) including "Axl's babies", but most of the new songs just suck ass. When added that Axl's voice blows nowadays, there really is no point for me to support nu-GNR. I'd respect this Axl's "thing" a lot more if he would drop the GNR name.

Axl hasn't talked that much shit about VR or any of the old members but frankly, I don't see any reason why should he? I thought it was mostly his choice to get rid of the old members by bringing in a new guitarist (Paul Huge) against everyone elses will.

Alot of people enjoy OMG and Chinese Democracy. If you don't like it, then that's fine, but your taste is not some trump argument against someone else's taste.

As for my comments, I stand by them. The people who responded to me have read the same articles that I've read. They know the comments that slash, duff, matt, and scott have made about axl who has not responded even though he had the ability to. We will hopefully hear one day all the petty things these guys have done to each other and the resolution to events that have occurred. I am not jumping to conclusions. I can only respond to the mistruths and slander I hear and it's coming from only one side of the fence. For whatever reason, Axl has continued his work and not fired back at the old guys in public. That will change one day, but who could deny that he was compelled to do so to correct what has been said about him.

[Booker Floyd]

As for my comments, I stand by them. The people who responded to me have read the same articles that I've read. They know the comments that slash, duff, matt, and scott have made about axl who has not responded even though he had the ability to. We will hopefully hear one day all the petty things these guys have done to each other and the resolution to events that have occurred. I am not jumping to conclusions. I can only respond to the mistruths and slander I hear and it's coming from only one side of the fence. For whatever reason, Axl has continued his work and not fired back at the old guys in public. That will change one day, but who could deny that he was compelled to do so to correct what has been said about him.

Sounds like a cop-out...

I still dont know what slanderous or inconsistent accounts have been made.  And your "in the last 2 years" clarification is still extremely goofy when you know very well that Axl has "fired" at these guys in the past 3 years, and if he comes out of seclusion, hell most likely do it again...

And what "mistruths" do you think he has to correct?

[killingvector]

Sounds like a cop-out...

why is it a cop out? Because I don't leap up and respond to an itemized list of your complaints with my statement. We are close enough to the situation to understand what Slash/Duff/Matt/ Scott statements being referenced. If you seriously don't know, send me an email and I'll send you some links.

And Btw, I don't accept what axl will do in the future as an absolution of slash/duff/matt/scott's vituperations. If all parties have "moved on", I expect all parties to move on.

[Stupid Head]

For fuck sake! Instead of making excuses like "they hate VR cause Axl isnt in it", why dont you accept that everybody has an opinion. Contrabnd was a let-down. Why? Because it didnt live up to their past work. Im not impressed with Scott Weiland either. I wish they had hung in their a little longer and chose someone decent instead of going for a famous person.

Im looking forward to seeing them when they come to New Zealand though.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

VR fans do know that non gnr/axl fans also don?t like Contraband, think they are overrated and that the album is mediocre.  If this album was put out by another band that did not have former gnr members you would all not like it as much.  As for Axl talking about the former members on the gnr tour, here is where the hypocrisy lies once again. Its ok for slash and duff to talk about Axl but once Axl does it on the tour he gets flack for it. And we all know since Axl has not fired back over the last two years, once he does, these same people that are saying its ok for slash and duff to talk about Axl will be calling Axl an asshole for talking shit about slash and duff.  Go figure.

[PhillyRiot]

There are some people who just just totally kiss Axl's ass.  Even though Axl disappears from these die-hards for years at a time, they just don't care.  Axl is the best front man alive today, but that doesn't mean I am going to agree with all of his opinions.  His die hard fans will shun VR to be loyal to Axl, and Axl will give them nothing new in return.

[killingvector]

There are some people who just just totally kiss Axl's ass.  Even though Axl disappears from these die-hards for years at a time, they just don't care.  Axl is the best front man alive today, but that doesn't mean I am going to agree with all of his opinions.  His die hard fans will shun VR to be loyal to Axl, and Axl will give them nothing new in return.

I think alot of Axl fans are enduring the lull in the hopes that the payoff will be worth it. Very few people kiss axl's ass especially after the meltdown during the US Tour. 2002 was a huge disappointment for everyone; I cannot rationalize what happened, but I won't blame axl's craziness for it unless I get proof that he couldn't handle the pressure or underestimated the response from CC for his erratic behavior. I think the new GnR was seriously damaged by the screw up that occurred and as a fan I was crestfallen.

By the time, both sides lined up against the label for the GH suit, it seemed all parties had grown weary of the petty criticisms ; I was hopeful al were motivated to look forward instead of back.   I was encouraged to this end after viewing the VH1 BTM which was not overly critical of Axl Rose and presented the breakdown of the band as failings on both sides.

Unfortunately, the peace was not to last very long. The media buildup to CB's release and the ill timed lawsuit provided the old guys with enough publicity to continue the assault against the redhead, many of the criticisms were overly personal and downright slanderous. At this point, I feel Axl has earned a casus belli against his old bandmates to which he will no doubt continue the verbal attacks whenever Chinese Democracy sees the light of day. As a former fan of both sides, I am let down by the recent behavior of slash and duff ; they should have ushered in this new phase of their career with pride and appreciation for the past.

[Booker Floyd]

the ill timed lawsuit provided the old guys with enough publicity to continue the assault against the redhead

Wheres this lawsuit publicity coming from, other than you?? Anybody who thinks the lawsuit was filed (or timed for) for publicity is delusional.? The guys obviously have some kind of case, and its a case that is probably costing a lot of money.? You think theyre filing a bogus case so they geta couple brief mentions on some websites?? About the timing, clearly the case was ready to be filed...why would they postpone it?? Because Axl-worshipping, overzealous message board conspiracy theorists such as yourself might jump to conclusions??

many of the criticisms were overly personal and downright slanderous.

Again, Axls just as guilty of "overly personal" insults.? As for these slanderous statements, Im still waiting to hear what youre referring to.? Im not messaging you over it; you brought up the issue, go ahead and back it up.

At this point, I feel Axl has earned a casus belli against his old bandmates to which he will no doubt continue the verbal attacks whenever Chinese Democracy sees the light of day.

He already has.? And yeah, hell probably do it again, and youll no doubt continue to ignore or justify his attacks and express disappointment over Slash and Duffs awful comments.?

they should have ushered in this new phase of their career with pride and appreciation for the past.

They have.? Theyve expressed how proud they are of their Guns careers many times.? But we both know youre not really talking about "the past."?

[Top-Hatted One]

VR fans do know that non gnr/axl fans also don?t like Contraband, think they are overrated and that the album is mediocre.  If this album was put out by another band that did not have former gnr members you would all not like it as much.  As for Axl talking about the former members on the gnr tour, here is where the hypocrisy lies once again. Its ok for slash and duff to talk about Axl but once Axl does it on the tour he gets flack for it. And we all know since Axl has not fired back over the last two years, once he does, these same people that are saying its ok for slash and duff to talk about Axl will be calling Axl an asshole for talking shit about slash and duff.  Go figure.

right because some of of just hate Scott Weiland

[killingvector]

Booker, once again the only way you can reply to someone is by personally insulting them. I resent your comments in this thread and I have reported you to the moderator again. If you can only resort to namecalling and puerile oversimplifications of someone's arguement to make your point, then there is no point even discussing this with you

Wheres this lawsuit publicity coming from, other than you?  Anybody who thinks the lawsuit was filed (or timed for) for publicity is delusional.  The guys obviously have some kind of case, and its a case that is probably costing a lot of money.  You think theyre filing a bogus case so they geta couple brief mentions on some websites?  About the timing, clearly the case was ready to be filed...why would they postpone it?  Because Axl-worshipping, overzealous message board conspiracy theorists such as yourself might jump to conclusions?

I didn't say it was filed merely for publicity. It was however timed to coincide with the publicity run up to Contraband. How many years did these guys have to settle it? Surprisingly, this comes down the pipe right before the album drops. The lawsuit's merit is an entirely different issue altogether.

once again, I resent the disparaging comments toward me in this post. You need some help.

Again, Axls just as guilty of "overly personal" insults.  As for these slanderous statements, Im still waiting to hear what youre referring to.  Im not messaging you over it; you brought up the issue, go ahead and back it up.

Considering the fact that you have unjustly called me a racist in the past, why would I jump through hoops just for you. You are well aware of the misstatements made particularly by Slash, Duff, and Scott. If you are going to plead ignorance here, we can discuss this off board and I'll educate you.

He already has.  And yeah, hell probably do it again, and youll no doubt continue to ignore or justify his attacks and express disappointment over Slash and Duffs awful comments.

Your point is what now? You are using what you think I will do in the future as some proof that i am not credible? amazing

They have.  Theyve expressed how proud they are of their Guns careers many times.  But we both know youre not really talking about "the past."

I am writing about the past. I don't know what you are referring.

[Acquiesce]

Would you care discussing it with me then? I see you avoided my post. I would like to know what your response is to  some of it. Why do you give Axl the benefit of the doubt for everything he does but you automatically assume the worst about VR? Why do you have a problem with anyone who says anything remotely negative towards Axl but find it alright for him to say what he pleases about others? When has the members of VR stooped to Axl's level of telling them to suck their dick and all the other nonsense he spouted off? Most importantly what has Axl done to deserve your undying support and what has VR done to earn your wrath?

  I would also like to hear you answer some of Booker's questions. Could you provide us with these personal insults? What publicity is VR getting from this lawsuit?

[Will]

I wonder why some GNR fans not only not like Velvet Revolver, but that they downright hate Velvet Revolver?!

Maybe because there's a wide range of musical opinions on any musical board? Being a fan of GN'R (past or new) doesn't mean you have to like VR. It's simply a matter of opinion. Some people love U2, some people hate them. Same zith Jay-Z, Linkin Park, Led Zeppelin, Shania Twain, and VR too.

I don't really see hatred on the board, but a disappointment for sure. And I think people on the board are split: a good chunk of the members actually like VR A LOT. Some members don't like them (at all?). So be it. Some people (usually the very big fans of VR, even though it's a generalization) hate the new GN'R with their guts and make fun of Axl every five minutes. So be it. That won't make me change my opinion on the new band (which I really like). Lots of people like VR and bought their album on this board, it won't change my opinion about the band or the album.

To respond personally to this thread, I don't "hate" VR, I'm simply not a big fan of their album and certainly wouldn't mention it in the best albums of 2004 (matter of taste, I thought 2004 was pretty weak musically, except for U2). If I had to give a few reasons, I would first mention the main one why I don't really dig VR: Weiland. I don't like his attitude, his voice, his lyrics, and I really don't like at all the way he "moves" on stage. I may have a different opinion if they had a different singer. I think Slash and Duff are great in VR (even though I preferred what Slash did in GN'R) and they're a good live band (seen them on the US tour - had to see Slash and Duff live). Besides Weiland, I would say some songs really do sound alike (just my opinion) and sound unfinished or rushed or whatever.

The guys recreated something new with a new singer, I think that's great for them, but Weiland ain't Axl, and to me he's galaxies away (lyrics, energy, voice - and I've seen them both live on stage) so that's a huge letdown for me. I really do think it's easy to see why people would like them or not. But the main reason is stated at the beginning of my post.

Btw guys, there's no need to get at each other because you have different musical opinions. Keep it cool. There's a LOT more important issues in life than this.

[Booker Floyd]

It was however timed to coincide with the publicity run up to Contraband.

Thats pure, unfounded speculation on your part, and its not based on any kind of solid logic.  VR was doing fine in the publicity department - what did this lawsuit accomplish for them in terms of publicity?  The train of thought behind your speculation is incredibly silly.  We both understand that the lawsuit is probably with merit.  And we both know that it was ready to be filed...Now, if the suit happens to be ready in the weeks/months prior/after VRs album release, do you suggest they delay the whole thing?  And why would they do that?  The answer is: so people like you dont jump to conclusions.  Then you have to ask yourself, should they care what people like you think?  The suit has merit, its ready to be filed - file it.  Why waste time?

How many years did these guys have to settle it?

You seem to be well-versed in your Duff/Slash interviews, you should know that Duffs only been a finance whiz for what, 3 years at most?  Hes said revently that his newfound financial insight has helped him better understand a lot of GNRs business dealings.  Not to mention that many of the events and blocked deals that comprise the case itself have in fact taken place in the last few years.  And Slash and Duff "reuniting" in this band might have played a part as well.  But I think you understand that its kind of preposterous to imply that these guys knew they had a good case for the past 7 years and were just waiting for Contraband to come out before filing it.

Surprisingly, this comes down the pipe right before the album drops. The lawsuit's merit is an entirely different issue altogether.

So genuine coincidence (even though theres not much coincidental about it - it has almost nothing to do with Contrabands release) is out of the question?  Youre choosing irrational base suspicion over rational reasoning. 

Considering the fact that you have unjustly called me a racist in the past, why would I jump through hoops just for you.

Jump through hoops?  Youre already responding to me.  If you know what youre referring to, then simply type it in with the rest of your response. 

You are well aware of the misstatements made particularly by Slash, Duff, and Scott. If you are going to plead ignorance here, we can discuss this off board and I'll educate you.

I am?  Then why have I asked you three times now to enlighten me?

Like I said, Im not messaging you.  You brought up the point, you can back it up or cop out.  Your choice.

Your point is what now? You are using what you think I will do in the future as some proof that i am not credible? amazing

Its not what you will do in the future (although I think you know Im right anyway), it what youre doing now.  Its the fact that Axl has insulted these guys numerous times since the split, and youre using these weird time qualifiers to ignore or justify it. 

I am writing about the past. I don't know what you are referring.

Well, if its really the past youre referring to, then I just informed you as to why youre wrong.