Will 2005 finally be the year Axl comes back?

[Naupis]

And its not a debute band

I am not sure how educated or aversed in market techniques you are, but in the marketplace the brand name "Velvet Revolver" is new, regardless of the bands they were in in the past. Walk up to someone on the street and ask them if they know Velvet Revolver, and they may look at you funny. Ask them if they know Guns N' Roses and they will know who you're talking about. Reason being the brand name GNR has 17 years of built up equity in it and from a marketing prosepctive its very strong. VR on the other hand at face value is a new name. So from an awareness standpoint they are certainly a new band in that they have to build that brand awarness and equity it took GNR almost 20 years to achieve. It can't be done overnight, as there are still many people who don't know who VR is, but if you said Slash they would say "Oh the GNR guy."

They use GNR and STP to promote themselves because they have to, because no one would give 2 shits about VR if they weren't who they are. Same reason Axl would rather use the GNR name than spend a couple of years trying to build up a new brand name and create brand awareness. It is easy for you to chalk them up as not a new band because it demeans their success in your eyes. That's fine, but from a marketing standpoint it has been a tremendous undertaking trying to create awareness among the general public about who the band is and what they are made of.  And besides, if they want to attach their names to those bands they have every right to as it was their sweat equity that created those bands and got the GNR and STP brand names to where they are today.

Finally, I am was presenting you facts that I would argue support the theory Contraband doesn't suck. Other than you're subjective "It sucks because it sucks and Slash is lazy" arguments, what criteria should we use to evaluate it if things like record sales, positive press, good tour attendance, #1 singles and grammy awards don't count?

[jarmo]

This isn't the VR section, keep that in mind.



/jarmo

[AxemanOnFire]

They make their name off of being former members of guns n roses.

New Guns make their names off being 'Axl's band'. Would anyone have given two turds about Colonel Claypool or Village Gorilla if Buckethead and Tommy Stinton (Stinson? Stintson? You know who I'm on about) hadn't been Gunners? Would anyone go to a Hookers 'n' Blow gig if Dizzy wasn't Gn'R's keyboardist? You can't fault Slash, Duff, Matt and Scott on using their marquee value to shift records, it's just common sense marketing. Plus, VR has Dave Kushner. Electric Love Who? If they'd wanted to sell out, well, Dave Navarro isn't working at the moment, is he? Neither, as far as I know, is Dan DeLeo.

On topic, I hope Chinese Democracy comes out this year, even if I'm not going to buy it. I don't like the new songs or the new band, but it'd be a shame if Axl were to end his career an erratic, unreliable, reclusive, poor tribute act to his own former glories.

[norway]

i'm no fan of the tommy solo-stuff, i did not do it for me, but i like the way he plays base in gnr

richard, chris and buckethead is my fav of the members, and as x-projects (or main projects 4 bucket)
brain is pretty wild behind the drums too 

i belive the stuff tommy and dizzy says, yes

[mikegiuliana]

Dave you have posted this topic last year then just changed the date.. Why do you do that, obviously you were so sure last year what makes this year any different and where's the I was wrong 2004 wasn't the year?

[LimeGreen_Engines]

Quote from: Naupis on Today at 01:13:07 AM
Quote
yeah and  the VR album sucked.

If going platinum and having a successful tour and great publicity sucks then I am all for it. I wish GNR would suck like that to, because it would mean we have some type of album from them. You need to get past the fact that there are alot more people who really liked the album out there than you choose to give credit too, and all of the success they have obtained the past 6 months proves so. The album has universally been praised for the most part, they recieved some Grammy nominations, had 2 #1  rock singles and all is well in the VR world. Whether you liked that album or not, this project has been an incredible success for a debut band who has been out building brand recognition.


Ha! You cannot judge how good an album or a band are by how many records they sell!
The Spice Girls have sold millions of albums and got umpteen awards, so in your book that means that they don't suck?
An album could sell 3 copies and be the greatest album ever made while another could sell 10 million and still be the shittest thing ever put on disc. I'm mean look at the likes of 'NickleBack', 'Godsmack' etc, big names, big sellers but they're SHITE!

I thought the VR album was a bit of a letdown. A few good tracks, but I got bored of it way too fast.

[mikegiuliana]

I agree album sales aren't everything but it at least says hey someone is actually buying the album and is some way to at least know if people are taking an interest..

ANyway when cd comes out we will all be doing where it is on the charts and where the singles are ranking, it's normal to base some parts of a bands success by their sales..

[GNR_Green]

I never thought I'd say this but I I'm now 90% sure we've seen the last of Axl and Chinese Democracy.  I have come to understand that, as there has been no real news since the MSG '02 show, there is therefor no band.  There might be an album in a studio that's ready to rock, but it's not likely to come out.  I can even believe the 3 album theory, it's not that far fetched, but none of them are going to come out.  I beleive in the talents and the choices of band members, I love The Blues, Oh My God and Madagascar, but I don't beleive there's any more to come.  Buckethead's gone, I also beleive one or two others (i.e. Brain) have probably gone as well.

Shit, I've followed this juggernaught since 2001 and I can't really beleive that it's come to this.  I really would like to beleive Tommy etc that this thing will come out 'soon' or whatever, but it's been said so many times it's beyond a joke.  The only thing Axl has got off his ass for since MSG is to sue people and contribute to GTA San Andreas.  That's it.  The only thing he's bothered to tell us is what can only be taken as a story about why Buckethead left.  For all we know those aren't even his own words.  Other than that it's just rumour after rumour after rumour.

In fact, I've recently started to doubt the talent of Axl.  Is this really the same man who wrote Estranged and November Rain?  He wasn't exactly encouraged by his band mates at the time to make great music like that, but he did.  No he seems to have more 'diverse' people around him and can't even speak to his fans.  With Buckethead he could've pulled off the greatest album of all time, but we're left guessing and basically dreaming that that is the case.  I've stood up for the bloke time and time again, we all know how much bashing you get these days for being into GNR.  The world is still Ou Ta Get Axl and is full of doubters, except for us.

If you're reading this Axl, please prove me wrong, I would love that more than anything.

[mikegiuliana]

I also beleive one or two others (i.e. Brain) have probably gone as well.

Brain didn't seem to be out in his interview, he said he was ready n missed being in the group (out there playing wise), dizzy seems as ready as ever as does tommy, who's the other person you feel is gone?


I do belive we probably won't see the album any time soon.

[Buddha_Master]

I never thought I'd say this but I I'm now 90% sure we've seen the last of Axl and Chinese Democracy.  I have come to understand that, as there has been no real news since the MSG '02 show, there is therefor no band.  There might be an album in a studio that's ready to rock, but it's not likely to come out.  I can even believe the 3 album theory, it's not that far fetched, but none of them are going to come out.  I beleive in the talents and the choices of band members, I love The Blues, Oh My God and Madagascar, but I don't beleive there's any more to come.  Buckethead's gone, I also beleive one or two others (i.e. Brain) have probably gone as well.

Shit, I've followed this juggernaught since 2001 and I can't really beleive that it's come to this.  I really would like to beleive Tommy etc that this thing will come out 'soon' or whatever, but it's been said so many times it's beyond a joke.  The only thing Axl has got off his ass for since MSG is to sue people and contribute to GTA San Andreas.  That's it.  The only thing he's bothered to tell us is what can only be taken as a story about why Buckethead left.  For all we know those aren't even his own words.  Other than that it's just rumour after rumour after rumour.

In fact, I've recently started to doubt the talent of Axl.  Is this really the same man who wrote Estranged and November Rain?  He wasn't exactly encouraged by his band mates at the time to make great music like that, but he did.  No he seems to have more 'diverse' people around him and can't even speak to his fans.  With Buckethead he could've pulled off the greatest album of all time, but we're left guessing and basically dreaming that that is the case.  I've stood up for the bloke time and time again, we all know how much bashing you get these days for being into GNR.  The world is still Ou Ta Get Axl and is full of doubters, except for us.

If you're reading this Axl, please prove me wrong, I would love that more than anything.

Damn...

You know what I fucking hate about this post? The thing about this that troubles me the most and bums me out?

It's the fact that I find myself having to agree. This is all very fucked. It sucks being a fan of something, and having that promise (Man I so fucking hear your sentiments on the album that could have been created between Axl and Bucket), only to have it go up in smoke. This GNR sounded like a force to be reckoned with, and I used that to debunk any motherfucker who painted Axl out to be a clown.

You have come to doubt the talents of Axl? Man, there you go again. You know, this is not the Axl I grew up with. Yea the mans 40 instead of 25. But he lost his edge. He lost his fuck you attitude. The man who called people out during the Get In The Ring Tour, won't even get into one himself by releasing his album.

Did any of you consider the fact that Axl's  Yoda is behind all this? Maybe Yoda felt the time still isn't right. The  energy is all wrong so Axl is waiting for the thumbs up. Maybe Axl's Pegasus is flying North instead of South.

Look, Im being obnoxious. But that is what this has become.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Axl should atleast throw us a bone and give us an idea of when CD will be out. Or a release date for the first single and the name of it.

[norway]

Axl should atleast throw us a bone

agree, if it's out this year, if it's not, if he don't know...

anything goes, but i understand some of the silence, we'll sure have enough when they startup again

until then... enjoy the rockreleases coming this year

[mikegiuliana]

Axl should atleast throw us a bone and give us an idea of when CD will be out. Or a release date for the first single and the name of it.

anything like that would be cool, even if he said 6 more motnhs ,we might not like it but at least we would know not to expect anything now/ We would also know he was into the album right now..

[axlsalinger]

yeah and the VR album sucked. It shows it only took a month or so to make. Slash wanted to make AFD again but he ended up making an STP album, a bad STP album at that.

Dude, I understand what you're saying here, I really do. I like Contraband (just as I like the 2 Snakepit albums) but it is not a great album. That is a problem. Axl brings the magic and that is why we are still here, after only 1 new song in 14 years.

However, you should make a list of your 10 favourite albums of all time. No, make that the 5000 greatest albums of all time. They will all have one thing in common. NONE OF THEM TOOK THIS LONG TO RECORD.

I've mentioned this before but here goes: The Beatles were introduced to George Martin at the beginning of 1963. Paul McCartney announced he was leaving the group in April, 1970. In other words, the ENTIRE CAREER of the Beatles from start to end, including at least 10 musical works of genius plus several world tours, movies, books, acid trips and spiritual journeys, took less time than this album. Led Zeppelin started in 1969, ended in 1980. 11 years, approx. 10 of the best albums in rock history. Axl Rose? 14 years: ONE SONG.

I love Axl, but this delay is not because the album needs more tweaking. This ain't the Sistine Chapel. To believe otherwise is just silly. And for the record, the Sistine Chapel? FOUR YEARS. By the way, this description is kind of funny if you apply it to Axl. From arthistory.about.com:

How long did it take Michelangelo to paint these?

It took him a bit over four years, from July of 1508 to October of 1512. Michelangelo got off to a slow start, not having painted frescoes before. He intended to (and did) work in buon fresco, the most difficult method, and one which only true masters undertook. In addition to having to learn everything about the medium itself and making initial blunders in that area, he also had to learn some wickedly hard techniques in perspective. (Consider that his figures look "correct" on curved surfaces, viewed from nearly 60 feet below.)

However, ultimately it wasn't Michelangelo's fault that the ceiling took four years. (Once he got the hang of things, he painted like a man on fire!) The work suffered numerous setbacks, such as mold and miserable, damp weather that disallowed plaster curing. A primary cause of downtime occurred when Julius was off waging a war, or ill to the point that Last Rites were administered. The ceiling project, and any hope Michelangelo had of being paid, were both frequently in jeopardy while Julius was absent or near death. Small wonder that the artist complained so often and bitterly about the project, really.

The only thing Axl has got off his ass for since MSG is to sue people and contribute to GTA San Andreas. That's it.

Yup. It's just bizarre.

This GNR sounded like a force to be reckoned with, and I used that to debunk any motherfucker who painted Axl out to be a clown.

This is the saddest part. I read Younggunner's posts about how great this band is and will be, and I have always agreed. These guys could have stuck with the plan and released this thing in December 2002 while they were still on tour. Huge Christmas sales, major GNR hype, a tour on the go, singles, videos, etc. etc. A GNR record with Axl's deepest lyrics yet and Buckethead shredding on the guitar. Fuck yeah!

Once there was this rock n' roll band rollin' on the streets
Time went by and it became a joke
We just needed more and more fulfilling- Uh-huh
Time went by and it all went up in smoke

[Luigi]

Axl 2005? If we only knew the truth, we would'nt think so much into it. I'm not guessing, I'm just being hopeful. I believe in AXL. He's the dealer hold out on ya, I love it. That a boy Axl.   

[norway]

These guys could have stuck with the plan and released this thing in December 2002 while they were still on tour.

it wasn't the plan, they even tried to release much earlie but the record company stopped it, accordin to axl

[axlsalinger]

Well, who the hell knows what is going on behind the scenes. I'm sure there are contracts and lawsuits galore. However, ask yourself this. If you were a record company exec who prevented Chinese Democracy from being released in 2002 to help recoup some of the millions that have been spent on it, would you still have a job? And what logical reason would there be for them NOT to release it?

From what I can see, all roads lead back to Axl.

[norway]

If you were a record company exec who prevented Chinese Democracy from being released in 2002

didn't say that, it was b4 02,?

And what logical reason would there be for them NOT to release it?

dunno, thats the buisness side of it, prolly wasn't satisfied with their product yet...

[Meanmachine22]

You know in 2001,2002,2003 i was always like : " Well if it is not coming out next year i am outta here. GNR is dead then!!"......
But all the time i never ever had the tendency to really do what i was thinking! I never had any fuckin' doubts that we will (sooner or later) see the new album, a tour and sold out world tour...
And now??? I still check out this and a few other sites and least once a day in the hope to read the breaking news in big in your face letters but... nothing.
After reading this thread i also need to admit what i never wanted to:

This album might actually never come out & we've seen the last performance of Axl & Gnr in MSG in 2002.

That would be su fucking sad!! Man what the hell is going on behind the scences? The label holding back CD??? Why would they? No way, or?? Axl is nuts?Yes? No? What the fuck?

In case Axl's plans changed and he doesn't want to release it at all ..why doesn't he tell us at least?

oh by the way HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

[leesixxrose]

The funny thing is even if 2005 we hear nothing... we will still wait.....