richard fortus, legit member in your eyes or not?

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Booker, do you even know your gnr history or facts? Paul was there to help Axl put back the pieces to guns n roses and be a fill in til they found a new guitiarist.  When they were recording SFTD they needed a player, slash and duff didnt try to bring anyone in so slash got Paul to help out, he was there until axl found a suitalbe replacement, he did with Fortus. What is so hard to understand about that. Read Axls interview when they first got Fortus. What did Axl say?

Again about Trent, i can tell you are very narrow minded when it comes to music, but Trent is a huge star, I guess you think Maynard of Tool is not one of the best either right?

[Naupis]

Hey, hopefully one day youll actually have material to base that asssertion on.

Thanks Booker, now you have just invited the endless, "all of the new GNR songs blow away any contraband song, so Robin has to be a better player" arguments

know that once it does come out no matter how good it is, you will have an excuse, but its ok we all have come to expect that by now.

Same goes for you. You have spent 5 years or so now telling everyone how CD would be the best thing since sliced bread, and even if it isn't recieved that well by the general public you will have 10 jillion excuses about how its better than anything they've done and this that and the next thing. It's like the VMA thing, while an objective fan says Axl was pretty terrible that night, a rabid GNR fan will give you 10 excuses to justify it instead of just admitting he blew it.

When (if) CD comes out we will get lots of rationalizing if its not that great.....and in terms of timelessness I can already say it won't stack up to Appetite in terms of historical standing in Rock N' Roll given that its pushed 20 million copies, is generally considered in the top 5 rock albums of all time, and gave us Jungle (the most played song at every sporting event ever) and SCOM, generally considered ?to have one of the top 10 riffs of all time. So since it won't give us those types of things to objectively compare, we will get lots of "well its better because its better" types of arguments that are impossible to objectively compare.

[younggunner]

and in terms of timelessness I can already say it won't stack up to Appetite in terms of historical standing in Rock N' Roll given that its pushed 20 million copies, is generally considered in the top 5 rock albums of all time, and gave us Jungle (the most played song at every sporting event ever) and SCOM, generally considered  to have one of the top 10 riffs of all time. So since it won't give us those types of things to objectively compare, we will get lots of "well its better because its better" types of arguments that are impossible to objectively compare.

while your at it can you tell me what numbers I should play for the lotto tomorrow?

[Naupis]

while your at it can you tell me what numbers I should play for the lotto tomorrow?

YG-

We have had this similar conversation in other threads. Do you really believe that realistically CD will move 20 million copies and produce songs that are more popular and more timeless than Jungle, SCOM and PC? Almost 20 years later those are everyday staples on rock stations......you really think there will be 2 or 3 songs that will displace them in terms of being the songs GNR is remembered by when all is said and done? I just don't think to assume so is realistic, and if the album doesn't do that (serving as the benchmark) then it can't be considered the best GNR album ever released as it is kind of retarded to argue that an album that did not sell as many copies, produce the same amount of timeless songs, and isn't generally considered 1 of the top 5 if not greatest Rock N' Roll cd's ever is somehow better than Appetite.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Hey, hopefully one day youll actually have material to base that asssertion on.

Thanks Booker, now you have just invited the endless, "all of the new GNR songs blow away any contraband song, so Robin has to be a better player" arguments

know that once it does come out no matter how good it is, you will have an excuse, but its ok we all have come to expect that by now.

Same goes for you. You have spent 5 years or so now telling everyone how CD would be the best thing since sliced bread, and even if it isn't recieved that well by the general public you will have 10 jillion excuses about how its better than anything they've done and this that and the next thing. It's like the VMA thing, while an objective fan says Axl was pretty terrible that night, a rabid GNR fan will give you 10 excuses to justify it instead of just admitting he blew it.

When (if) CD comes out we will get lots of rationalizing if its not that great.....and in terms of timelessness I can already say it won't stack up to Appetite in terms of historical standing in Rock N' Roll given that its pushed 20 million copies, is generally considered in the top 5 rock albums of all time, and gave us Jungle (the most played song at every sporting event ever) and SCOM, generally considered ?to have one of the top 10 riffs of all time. So since it won't give us those types of things to objectively compare, we will get lots of "well its better because its better" types of arguments that are impossible to objectively compare.

Oh so album sales are going to be the gauge of what album is better? That is good to know. Also, it does not matter what the critcs say since they will mostly likely bash the album, just look at st anger it was trash and most metallica fans agree yet spin and rollingstone mag gave it 5 stars each or rated it very high. ?

Like Axl said, he knows he will lose some gnr fans with the release of this ?album but he knows he will get some new ones with the new direction. Its just funny tho, axl wanted to progess and he is, slash didnt want to and he wanted to make another AFD album and ends up regressing and making an STP album, go figure.

Anyways back to Fortus.  He is going to kick ass on CD. I really liked his live playing on the 2002 tour and what he added to the new songs since 2001. He makes the songs such much fuller.

[younggunner]

We have had this similar conversation in other threads.

That is why I chose not to comment on what you said ?

what you are saying has nothing to do with richard fortus and if hes cool enough or grimy enough to be in GNR

[Booker Floyd]

No, the point is that comparing guitar players and lead singers and who each allow into the band is not a good comparison.

...

Okay? ?Im assuming theres some kind of logic behind this, but if its as nonsensical as your other "points," then Im really not even interested.

First, whats with all of the quotation marks?

What with all the faces

A cop-out around my actual point, but Ill answer: They are representive of the type of reaction certain ideas elicit, but you knew that. ?I still dont know what the purpose of your quotations was...

Even Axl makes mistakes....

Well, youve just completely blown off your own "point," so my work here is done. ?

No he didnt....

 

Paul was there to help Axl put back the pieces to guns n roses and be a fill in til they found a new guitiarist

Regardless, he recorded and played with GNR. ?That made him a guitar player in the band, and it wasnt Slash, Duff, or Matts doing. ?"And hes work solidly, basically every single day for the last seven years to try to help me have a Godamn band...the original guitar player that I worked with...Paul Huge." ?Thats the introduction Paul recieved at an actual GNR show, where he actually played guitar. ?Funny how different that sounds than, "Heres our temporary guitar player...Dont worry, hell be gone soon...Paul Huge."

Again about Trent, i can tell you are very narrow minded when it comes to music

How can you tell this?

By the way, wasnt it you who has said "Music is subjective, Booker, you dont seem to understand that" a million times?

but Trent is a huge star

Not sure what you mean by this, or how Navarro evades this stardom...feel free to elaborate.

I guess you think Maynard of Tool is not one of the best either right?

Actually, no, I dont. ?

[Naupis]

Like Axl said, he knows he will lose some gnr fans with the release of this ?album but he knows he will get some new ones with the new direction. Its just funny tho, axl wanted to progess and he is, slash didnt want to and he wanted to make another AFD album and ends up regressing and making an STP album, go figure.

With all of this talk of progressing and regressing....can someone tell me what the advantages to doing all of this "progressing" is if it means you are no longer selling 15-20 million albums per release and selling out stadiums where ever you go for prolonged periods of time because I really don't see the advantages to it if it means going into hibernation for 10 years and not releasing an album of original material for 14....coupled with playing predominantly half-filled arenas on your lone tour. I am just not seeing the point to completely changing the formula when you had a clientel that was buying a product they loved and showed a want for, if it means getting into the situation like I described above?

Can one of these "have to progress" people please explain how it benefits both the band and fans because I am just not seeing it. (Axl always says he's not quite sure if it's been done like this before......I think we are all starting to see why.)

[dave-gnfnr2k]

"How can you tell this?
By the way, wasnt it you who has said "Music is subjective, Booker, you dont seem to understand that" a million times?"

yeah i said that booker and you are still not doing it. A lot of people think Trent is one of the best but you dont, that does not mean he is not a huge star and one of the best frontmen. So you should listen to that advice, dont you think?

[Fitz]

no

[younggunner]

A cop-out around my actual point,

lol.....look whos calling the kettle black....every post I read of yours you always try to make fun of the poster and bring up stuff that has nothing to do with the actual post or topic. Yea you eventually give us your great analysis but before we get that we get the confusion expressions, quotes from what Dave said back in 1983, background checks on journalists, and all kinds of other wonderful stuff...but anyways as you were sayin...

Well, youve just completely blown off your own "point," so my work here is done.

Yes, good job soldier. Your paycheck is on the way

I knew you would come through....with the confusion
let me help

The original intentions between Paul and myself were that Paul was going to help me for as long as it took to get this thing together in whatever capacity that he could help me in. So when he first was brought into this, he was brought in as a writer to work with Slash.... Now whether or not Paul was going to be officially on the album or on the tour that really wasn?t an actual consideration at the time. It was in the air as a possibility but Paul was a friend trying to help us and he had a huge respect for Slash

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Like Axl said, he knows he will lose some gnr fans with the release of this ?album but he knows he will get some new ones with the new direction. Its just funny tho, axl wanted to progess and he is, slash didnt want to and he wanted to make another AFD album and ends up regressing and making an STP album, go figure.

With all of this talk of progressing and regressing....can someone tell me what the advantages to doing all of this "progressing" is if it means you are no longer selling 15-20 million albums per release and selling out stadiums where ever you go for prolonged periods of time because I really don't see the advantages to it if it means going into hibernation for 10 years and not releasing an album of original material for 14....coupled with playing predominantly half-filled arenas on your lone tour. I am just not seeing the point to completely changing the formula when you had a clientel that was buying a product they loved and showed a want for, if it means getting into the situation like I described above?

Can one of these "have to progress" people please explain how it benefits both the band and fans because I am just not seeing it. (Axl always says he's not quite sure if it's been done like this before......I think we are all starting to see why.)

Oh so you think a band should just keep doing the kind of music that made them popular instead of making the kind of music they want and growing as a band? That is how bands get old and stale. I love how people like you bring up the half filled arenas of the 2002 tour. ?Its really sad how people like you totally miss the point. But Ill say it again.
There was no promotion for that tour, there was no album in site and the city selection was stupid. Who the hell plays boise idaho? But again people like you forget they sold out major markets like Philly, boston and ny msg. ?Also you fail to mention they headlined RIR3 which was a huge event, they also sold out over seas. You also failed to mention that VR can just sell out crappy clubs and that is why they just play them. If they tried playing Areanas they would sell less tix than gnr did in 2002 and VR have an album, singles and vids out. ?So what does that tell you?

Once CD drops and they actually promote a tour, they will sell out and sell many more tix. they just cant be dumb and play in places like boise idaho. ?

I was at the fleet center in december of 2002 and it was sold out or pretty damn close and i was talking to people around me and a lot of them didnt even know about the tour until a few weeks before the show. ?

So tell me this. How is it that new gnr sold more tix on their so called failed usa 2002 aborted tour ?with no promotion than VR has on their club tour with an album?

If gnr did the club did like VR is, they would have sold out every show as well but Axl likes to think big.

[Booker Floyd]

yeah i said that booker and you are still not doing it. A lot of people think Trent is one of the best but you dont, that does not mean he is not a huge star and one of the best frontmen. So you should listen to that advice, dont you think?

Im not even sure what youre trying to convey...Im not sure you know either. ?And you still havent explained how you know Im so musically narrow-minded.

But I can just as easily say "A lot of people think Navarro is one of the best (including Axl)"...Then what? ?The "a lot of people..." argument is a rather easy one to make, and could easily be made for Navarro.  Hey, a lot of people think VR is one of the best bands out there (Grammy nods, top-selling rock album, critical praise, etc.)...You ready to take "that advice" and admit something Dave? 

And its pretty hypocritical for an ardent champion of musical subjectivity to scoff at anothers opinion the way you do....but youre no stranger to hypocrisy, are you?

[younggunner]

i must admit though booker...you do make me laugh
night ladies

[Naupis]

You also failed to mention that VR can just sell out crappy clubs and that is why they just play them. If they tried playing Areanas they would sell less tix than gnr did in 2002 and VR have an album, singles and vids out. ?So what does that tell you?

Well.... for all of the complaining and moaning you do about other people ruining your threads with VR stuff....you are the one bringing it up. I didn't say one word about them in my post and I wasn't comparing the 2. I was comparing GNR to GNR....that is what's relevant...not what VR is doing.

As to the tour attendance.....CD or no CD, the novelty of seeing Axl using the GNR name back out on tour sold tickets. Most of the people who went to those shows probably didn't even realize they weren't going to see Slash there. Besides, it's a little easier to sell tickets touring under the name "GNR" which has been pretty substantial in the music industry the past 17 years, than it is under the name "Velvet Revolver" which is still in it's infant stage of life(regardless of how much they whore out there previous association with GNR).


You knew the answer to that question already, but it makes you feel good to hear people say anything positive about GNR because you personally have put your foot in your mouth so many times about CD and when we'll get it that your credibility around here is nil. So continue the VR vs. GNR pissing match if you want but it is retarded, as I will continue seeing VR live in person actually playing shows and listening to Contraband....and I will enjoy GNR if we ever get anything from them as well.

[Booker Floyd]

The original intentions between Paul and myself were that Paul was going to help me for as long as it took to get this thing together in whatever capacity that he could help me in. So when he first was brought into this, he was brought in as a writer to work with Slash.... Now whether or not Paul was going to be officially on the album or on the tour that really wasn?t an actual consideration at the time. It was in the air as a possibility but Paul was a friend trying to help us and he had a huge respect for Slash

Irrelevent.? The bottom line is, Axls the one who pushed for Pauls presence within the band.? Nobody else in the band seemed to care for him, yet he was writing, recording, and eventually touring with GNR.? And it wasnt the doing of Slash, Duff, or Matt.? You cant look at Pauls writing credits, gigging, and overall history with GNR and honestly say "Axl didnt push for him."

[Cocaine__tongue]

Of course he's a legitimate member, as long as Axl keeps sending him his monthly paychecks.

By the way, to those who consider him not legit just because he happened to be a session musician for NSYNC.....how do you consider slash for playing with Marta Sanchez???. Yes, Slash colaborated with her (spanish singer) in a Marta Sanchez song for an album of hers like 6 or 7 years ago. To those who don't know her, it would be like Slash playing guitar for someone like Mariah Carey. (if slash got to bang M. Sanchez, lucky him!!!).

[Mikkamakka]

Of course he's a legitimate member, as long as Axl keeps sending him his monthly paychecks.

By the way, to those who consider him not legit just because he happened to be a session musician for NSYNC.....how do you consider slash for playing with Marta Sanchez???. Yes, Slash colaborated with her (spanish singer) in a Marta Sanchez song for an album of hers like 6 or 7 years ago. To those who don't know her, it would be like Slash playing guitar for someone like Mariah Carey. (if slash got to bang M. Sanchez, lucky him!!!).

For those who haven't heard the song, it's A+.

BTW I think the fact that Fortus played as a session musician for N'Sync and Enrique Iglesias doesn't impact that he's a legitimate 'member' of GN'R. As long as Axl pays his bills, he's in GN'R.

But to thoseo who can't see the difference between INVITING A LEGEND TO HELP CREATING MUSIC and HIRING SOMEONE TO DO SOME GUITARS THE NOTE-TO-NOTE WAY AS THE PRODUCERS WANT, please use your head... would you recognize that it's Fortus playin' on a track? No. Or do you recognize if it's Slash? Yes, of course.

[leesixxrose]

the only legit members are

Axl, Slash, Izzy, Steven, Duff...

The rest are all replacements, employees or what ever you want to call them...

[Skeletor]

The people complaining about Richard's N'sync connection are just as ridiculous as the ones complaining about Slash playing with Blackstreet, Jacko etc. I don't get why it's such a big deal, and by that I'm not saying I just disagree with the haters, I mean I really do not understand why this shit is so important to people.

the only legit members are
Axl, Slash, Izzy, Steven, Duff...
The rest are all replacements, employees or what ever you want to call them...

But you don't know what their actual involvement has been like so far - I don't think you're able to state something like that at this point.