richard fortus, legit member in your eyes or not?

[leesixxrose]

But you don't know what their actual involvement has been like so far - I don't think you're able to state something like that at this point.

untill i see some kind of product from the new members that is equal to or better than AFD and adds a new chapter to GnR ... then the only legitimite members are the original 5....

2 years ago everyone would have said "buckethead is a legitimate member" but hes gone just like that...

Richard Fortus could leave today and nobody would really give a shit since its not like hes done alot for the GnR name anyways....

GnR will always be Axl,Izzy,Slash,Duff and Stevens band.....

[jarmo]

If you don't understand why Richard played with NSYNC, I'll tell you. It was a job. He got paid so he didn't have to live on the streets. Even the "original GN'R drummer" Matt Sorum did session work before he got famous.

Do I have to tell you what Slash and Steven Adler did for money before GN'R?


Regarding Dave Kushner being a great guitar player because he plays with Slash. Yeah right. Izzy played with Slash too but you'll never see him listed as one of the greatest guitar players of all times. They both work well complimenting Slash. That's why they play(ed) with him.


On topic, Richard was brought into GN'R just like Slash was. He was recommended by a band member. As far as I remember, Slash and Steven joined because Duff had played with them before.



/jarmo

[Mikkamakka]

If you don't understand why Richard played with NSYNC, I'll tell you. It was a job. He got paid so he didn't have to live on the streets. Even the "original GN'R drummer" Matt Sorum did session work before he got famous.

Do I have to tell you what Slash and Steven Adler did for money before GN'R?


Regarding Dave Kushner being a great guitar player because he plays with Slash. Yeah right. Izzy played with Slash too but you'll never see him listed as one of the greatest guitar players of all times. They both work well complimenting Slash. That's why they play(ed) with him.


On topic, Richard was brought into GN'R just like Slash was. He was recommended by a band member. As far as I remember, Slash and Steven joined because Duff had played with them before.



/jarmo

Unfortunately N'Sync was Richard's most famous work. And you maybe remember that when Slash and Steven joined GN'R, the band was nothing. After they joined, these five guys became one of the greatest band in history - Richard joined a world famous band, it's a difference, isn't it? He didn't make GN'R famous, he's just getting paid for being there. It's not against Richard: if CD comes out it can prove the value of his contribution to GN'R. BTW Matt played for Cult before he joined GN'R, he wasn't an unname studio musician, who plays a C, a D and then a G, and that's it, work done. But I don't know why you are frustrated because Richard didn't have a successful music career with his own bands - he did session works, because he didn't have a good band and yes, he had to live. But saying that Richard's playin' with N'Sync equals to Slash's work with weirdo Jacko... it's like saying that singing backup vocals for Village People equals singin' duet with Elton John.

On the other hand the 'Slash and Steven sucked for drugs' story is Steven's, Slash always denied this...

[jarmo]

But I don't know why you are frustrated because Richard didn't have a successful music career with his own bands - he did session works, because he didn't have a good band and yes, he had to live.

Frustrated?

But saying that Richard's playin' with N'Sync equals to Slash's work with weirdo Jacko... it's like saying that singing backup vocals for Village People equals singin' duet with Elton John.

I didn't compare them. I said many musicians have done session work before they got famous. Matt Sorum included (before The Cult).

On the other hand the 'Slash and Steven sucked for drugs' story is Steven's, Slash always denied this...

I didn't mean that. Since as you pointed out, it was Steven who said it. I think they used to "entertain" old women who'd give them drugs and things like that.




/jarmo

[norway]

is the vr section gettin boring? they're NOT gnr members for those who think so

i really like richard, but i will not say he is better than any members, they have different styles or disticntion and that equals the members, so some  of the a styles suits you and some don't

plain formally (like contracts) richard is a legit member- but unfortunatly not in yet in the gnr legacy t the big public crowd
- we'll see it ten years after release i guess

[willow]

Like Jarmo, and some others have pointed out! You do what you have too to pay the bills. Besides when you play with top 40 acts it gets your name out there.

For you who don't think Richard is legit. For one have you heard any of his solo stuff. The guy is amazing. And second, Dizzy and Tommy talk very highly of him. That alone is enough for me.

As for Robin, he has a great style and great stage presence. I love watching both of these guys on stage!!!!!

[leesixxrose]

For one have you heard any of his solo stuff. The guy is amazing.

have you heard any of his solo stuff??? does Richard Fortus have a solo album?? 

[Caligula13]

he is a member of GNR. that's all.

[younggunner]

Irrelevent. ?The bottom line is, Axls the one who pushed for Pauls presence within the band. ?Nobody else in the band seemed to care for him

How is that irrelevant? The reality is even though the other members didnt like him, they didnt suggest one name at the time. ?

yet he was writing, recording, and eventually touring with GNR

He played 3 shows with them. He might get a few writing credits on CD. But so did Wes Arkeen and others.


 ?

You cant look at Pauls writing credits, gigging, and overall history with GNR and honestly say "Axl didnt push for him."

Did I not just give you a quote from Axl that said he brought him into the mix
He was just brought into the mix for the time being. Until they found anohter guitar player. They never were able to get past that and the direction of the band. As a result we have a new band today...and guess what....Tobias isnt in it....

[Mikkamakka]

Irrelevent. ?The bottom line is, Axls the one who pushed for Pauls presence within the band. ?Nobody else in the band seemed to care for him

How is that irrelevant? The reality is even though the other members didnt like him, they didnt suggest one name at the time. ?

I start to think that you are Axl Rose, cause you're repeating everything he said. To clear it: the band suggested names. Slash wanted Ryan Roxie to join, they tried out Zakk, Izzy was around and Matt suggested Robin Finck.

[younggunner]

I start to think that you are Axl Rose, cause you're repeating everything he said.

Because in order to support an argument you need quotes,facts

To clear it: the band suggested names. Slash wanted Ryan Roxie to join, they tried out Zakk, Izzy was around and Matt suggested Robin Finck.

What does that clear?
We know the situation and what happened...we are discussing the role of Tobias.

[Falcon]

 Slash and Dave Navvaro are "much easier to work with" than the likes of Axl and Trent. Lets not compare 2 guitar players, 1 great, 1 overated with two "ego maniacs"....

I hope your not playing the "overrated" card on Navarro.

Simply put, he's one of the most influential players of the modern rock era.  Highly skilled, with a unique style, tone and sound.

[Saul]

Saul I am just curious, yes fortus is not an established Legend like slash but neither is buckthead, and we all know how much you love BH.  BH was pretty much an unknown until he joined guns n roses and was basically underground but that doesn?t change the fact how amazing BH is at playing the guitar.  You don?t have to be an established legend to be a great guitar player. There are tons of unknown guitar players that are better than slash but just because they are not know does not mean they are not a great guitar player.

Unlike Fortus , Buckethead has a WEALTH of released solo albums and band albums including giant robot and praxis not to mention an enourmous amount of soundtrack work under his belt for which someone like me can make a very educated guess about his guitar playing ability. Moreover , Buckethead may have been unknown to the masses or internet GNR fans until he joined GNR but do a little research and you'll find that he was a regular couluminst in guitar player magazine for most part of 1996. He also regularly appeared in GW's year end polls every year .. so it wasnt like he was unknown , cause he was certainly pretty well known in the guitar community. He just isnt well known in the general community. Fortus is unknown in both areas , for now.

As for Tommy and the new band hating gnr back in the day well guess what slash hated STP and Weiland back in the day and always bashed them calling them wannabes but now Scott is his lead singer. So what about that?

To be honest , I thought this thread was about GNR and their members not being legit and whatnot .. not a "one up each other" thread where gnr fans try and fight VR fans and that BS. I think slash hating STP has nopthing at all to do with this thread. Nothing.

As for Robin Finck, you have never given him a fair shake, and Robin is a great guitar player, people love to bash his playing but his intro to SCOM which people say he butchers sounds just like slash.  Robin just bends notes too far sometimes but that is his style. Like I tell people get the live NIN album and you will see how great robin is.  If robin was such a crappy guitarist you really think two of the best rock stars in the world (Axl and Trent) would want him for their guitar player?

Thats pretty damn ignorant.    I've never given Robin a fair shake?! Thanks for the info. I guess buiying the NIN dvd and watching ever video bootleg from the 2002 GNR tour just wasnt enough .... maybe you can point me to some other material where I can be better educated on his playing?  You say robin bends notes too far sometimes cause thats his style , I think when you're in a glorified cover band like robin and CO were in back on the 2002 tour , which it was at that time , a coverband .. when they play their own songs it will be a whole different story .. but when you are in a coverband you really need to make an effort to try and play the material close to the original. Even Bucket was guilty of of putting in too many notes sometimes EX: Night Train  ... but not out of tune bending , thats the worst thing ever.

And to be honest , I dont really enjoy watching robin onstage ... thats just me but whatever , I've tried and I cant , for now anyways , wrap myself around being a fan of his. I wish they woulda kept Bucket and Fortus and gave Finck the ax.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

is the vr section gettin boring? they're NOT gnr members for those who think so

i really like richard, but i will not say he is better than any members, they have different styles or disticntion and that equals the members, so some? of the a styles suits you and some don't

plain formally (like contracts) richard is a legit member- but unfortunatly not in yet in the gnr legacy t the big public crowd
- we'll see it ten years after release i guess

So were matt and Gilby members of guns n roses in the early 90s?

[providman]

Saying Fortus(or Brain, Stinson, Finck, etc....) is a legit member is like saying Billy Preston is a legit member of the Beatles. Like Preston & the Beatles, they recorded ?with GnR(supposedly). Like Preston & the Beatles, they toured with GnR. However, since the Beatles, just like GnR, ?are no longer a current group, you have to say Fortus, like Preston, are NOT legit members since the bands don't currently exist, which is probably besides the point anyway.

[younggunner]

Simply put, he's one of the most influential players of the modern rock era. ?Highly skilled, with a unique style, tone and sound.

Im not saying hes not good. Hes ok, imo. But for all that we hear of him hes nothing out of the ordinary. I havnt heard much outside of JA, and RHCP I will admit...but with JA his guitar work is good but nothing special. Slash blows him away in my mind.
Im not so sure he has a unique sound either. Slash has a unique sound..not sure Dave does...

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Saying Fortus(or Brain, Stinson, Finck, etc....) is a legit member is like saying Billy Preston is a legit member of the Beatles. Like Preston & the Beatles, they recorded ?with GnR(supposedly). Like Preston & the Beatles, they toured with GnR. However, since the Beatles, just like GnR, ?are no longer a current group, you have to say Fortus, like Preston, are NOT legit members since the bands don't currently exist, which is probably besides the point anyway.

Fortus, Brian, Tommy and Robin all have written songs for guns n roses, they have all helped write the new songs so yes they are legit members. They are not just touring with guns n roses they are now guns n roses. ?Just because they are not the original members does not mean they are not guns n roses, if you want to use that logic then slash, duff and steven are not guns n roses either because axl and izzy were in the band with tracii guns and others before they ever were in the picture.

Saul again no one except BH fans knew who he was before he joined guns n roses, even non gnr fans. ?You can ask random music people and im sure they still don?t know who BH is. ?So like I said just because you are not mainstream and well known does not mean ?you are not a great guitarists, so you are just missing my point.

As for one upping each other, I find it laughable people like you say tommy hated AFD but now he is in the band and bashing him for it is ok yet its not legit to bring up how slash hated STP and now has their lead singer. ?Why is that? Oh I know why. ?

And like I said you have never given robin a fair shake and everyone knows that. ?You have pointed out how bad he on songs when he plays it just like slash, that is all the proof we need.

[chineseblues]

For one have you heard any of his solo stuff. The guy is amazing.

have you heard any of his solo stuff??? does Richard Fortus have a solo album?? 

Listen to his work in Love Spit Love or the Furs, hes really an awesome guitarist, and a very valueable member of gnr. 

[providman]

Saying Fortus(or Brain, Stinson, Finck, etc....) is a legit member is like saying Billy Preston is a legit member of the Beatles. Like Preston & the Beatles, they recorded ?with GnR(supposedly). Like Preston & the Beatles, they toured with GnR. However, since the Beatles, just like GnR, ?are no longer a current group, you have to say Fortus, like Preston, are NOT legit members since the bands don't currently exist, which is probably besides the point anyway.

Fortus, Brian, Tommy and Robin all have written songs for guns n roses,

I'd ask you to prove this, but we all know you can't, & just because some of them said so doesn't mean shit anymore, either. They have no credibility. They lost getting the benefit of the doubt years ago.

[Saul]

Saul again no one except BH fans knew who he was before he joined guns n roses, even non gnr fans.  You can ask random music people and im sure they still don?t know who BH is.

So I'm guessing the editors of guitar player magazine were like "who's that guy writing for our mag all these months?!" .. the people reading the mag , they didnt get to know him either right? What about all the people who bought monsters and robots before he joined GNR? What about all the praxis fans he had before he joined GNR? Do you know how big he is/was in japan before joining GNR? Please.

As for one upping each other, I find it laughable people like you say tommy hated AFD but now he is in the band and bashing him for it is ok yet its not legit to bring up how slash hated STP and now has their lead singer.  Why is that? Oh I know why. 

OK. 

And like I said you have never given robin a fair shake and everyone knows that.  You have pointed out how bad he on songs when he plays it just like slash, that is all the proof we need.

Again , thats ignorant. I've given robin more then a fair shake. After being VERY unimpressed with his attempt to cover GNR/Slash solo's live (no , he doesnt play them like slash) I went out and took everyone's advice and got my hands on the NIN dvd .. sorry , still not impressed. So I've given him a fair shake from what material I can gather on him and come to the conclusion that I dont think he's a good player. I figured everyone was entitled to their opinion.