How do you get $13 million out of a record company?

[Furious Styles]

I have a question about the multiple albums scenario.

If Axl recorded 3 albums worth of material to release at a pre-determined time after the initial release of Chinese Democracy, to please Geffen or whoever, isn't that kind of goin' against his morals or artistic values?

Wasn't the big deal about the Use Your Illusion albums that it was a new and different direction from Appetite For Destruction, that he (Axl) was musically lookin' to evolve Guns N' Roses. Axl could have played it safe and gave us all another Appetite but he chose the road less traveled. I personally find it hard that Axl is just goin' to release records he's already recorded after a determined amount of years just to please Geffen or return his end of the bargain or favour.

Axl seems to be a very complex individual, I just find it hard that he would allow the initial release of Chinese Dmocracy, to be followed up by more albums that are more or less Chinese Democracy sessions. Won't Axl feel the need to write new material? I understand he wants all his materail to be heard, but I'm not so sure he wouldn't want to record some of his new ideas rather than have to wait for all the releases to be finished before he can go on. 

[dont_damn_me]

I remember seeing an interview with I think it was that guy Outcast.......he said he'd never tell a label that he's almost finished a record because they made him release what he had before he wanted. ? I bet most musicians don't get the treatment that Axl gets....unlimited budget, time, etc...He deserves this special treatment and I think the label have heard the majority of the the new songs and feel confident that they're going to make their $$ back. ?If there was no material to back up the huge bill then i think the label would have preasured a release or drop Axl from the payroll. ?

[Gunner80]

I think selling eigthy million records might've had something to do with it.

[younggunner]

I just find it hard that he would allow the initial release of Chinese Dmocracy, to be followed up by more albums that are more or less Chinese Democracy sessions. Won't Axl feel the need to write new material? I understand he wants all his materail to be heard, but I'm not so sure he wouldn't want to record some of his new ideas rather than have to wait for all the releases to be finished before he can go on. 

The follow ups are not going to be the scraps of CD. The follow up albums will be completely different type albums. The band hasnt just been working on Cd.

Im sure the band jams when they are on tour and if they come up with soemthing Im sure they will work on it. I think that the followups are done but can be adjusted. The point is that the material is there and ready to go...but lets get the 1st 1 out first...

[norway]

I think selling eigthy million records might've had something to do with it.

yeah, i think thats it

[echrisl]

The point is that the material is there and ready to go...

What makes you think that the material is there and ready to go?

[younggunner]

because they have the groundwork down for each of the albums. my point was that the followups are done but could be adjusted along the way

[jabba2]

Geffon or whatever they were named back then, gave Axl a $10M advance to make a record sometime back in 95 or earlier. So whatever confidence they had in GNR back then, or music they could have heard has probably changed. Its not like Geffon just handed $10M over during the last couple years. They were expecting a record back in 96-97.

The RS article from 2000 talks about it some of the stuff Axl bought.

"They jammed at the Complex in Los Angeles and at Rumbo Recorders for weeks and months at a time, usually at night. Axl brought in a showroom full of guitars and effects. "It's a musical-instrument convention," one observer says. "He has more knobs and keyboards and strings and wire and wood in there than you could possibly imagine could even be manufactured." Of Axl's guitar setup, Abbruzzese recalls, "You could hunt buffalo with his rig. It had a lot of lights, a lot of blinking lights, a lot of things that you stepped on. It sounded like a freight train that was somehow playable."

[norway]

Intresting, seems they been workin throughrly with music

[grog mug]

I never saw that RS article. ?It sounds pretty bad ass. ?I'm thinking he has the guitar parts down, but is not satisfied with the vocals yet. ?

[rziola]

It is as simple as this...when you put in as much as Geffen have...you can't just pull the plug, otherwise it is all lost for another record company to pick it all up. Think about it, when you have so many $$$ how much more is 1 or 2 million ?
As for the multiple Album deal that is being discussed here, it doubt very much that we will see multiple albums from the last few years sessions, I do however believe in that there will be plenty of extras and bonuses. We should just count ourselves lucky to see one Album at all. Remember, although some people consider Axl to be a musical genius, he seems to lack a constant work ethic. Disagree ? Well..... How long has it been ?

Saying this, I believe that 2005 will be the year for the album, but not necessarily the year of GNR. The record has been build up so much, it is doomed to fail. Or ?

[SuicideUZI]

That doesn't actually solve everything. If they hadn't given Axl $13 million and released GH, that would be $13 more profit.

You could have a point about $13 not meaning much to a company that big - but why give it to GNR and not anyone else (that's if it's just for one album)

@#$%Funker

well the label has even said that they would've never put out the greatest hits album if axl had release chinese democracy by that time.  so i'd say its safe to say that at least part of it is the fact that they knew they could always use a GH to fall back on if necessary to get there investment back.

another thing is its probbaly setup to where if axl decides he does not want to release the album he probably would have to pay back the record label a lot of what they invested to keep them from releasing it.  kinda like on the november rain video when axl was thinking about paying the band or whoever to keep  it from coming out which would've put him in his words flat broke at the time but he decided to let it get put out.  either way the record label is gonna get their money back

[Mikkamakka]

It is as simple as this...when you put in as much as Geffen have...you can't just pull the plug, otherwise it is all lost for another record company to pick it all up. Think about it, when you have so many $$$ how much more is 1 or 2 million ?

That's how I see things, too. Once the company spent 5-10 millions to an album and it's still not ready, theey can't release it, because there is not enough material/not enough quality material to release the album. So the company will give another million, and then again and again...and when they'll fed up with the situation they'll fire the band. IMO Axl must have enough material for an album, 'cause he had 10+ years for it, but as I see, he's never satisfied with the product so decided not to record his vocal parts until the music isn't 'ready' as he wants it. When a track is okay for him, he records the vocals. But he's aware not to complete an album worth of material, 'cause in that case Geffen could force him to release those tracks and he doesn't want it. He wants it to be his masterpiece to justify his decision of firing/banishing Slash & Co. But IMO 4 years would have to be enough for him to make an ultimate album, if he still had the talent and sanity.

As for the multiple Album deal that is being discussed here, it doubt very much that we will see multiple albums from the last few years sessions, I do however believe in that there will be plenty of extras and bonuses. We should just count ourselves lucky to see one Album at all. Remember, although some people consider Axl to be a musical genius, he seems to lack a constant work ethic. Disagree ? Well..... How long has it been ?

Saying this, I believe that 2005 will be the year for the album, but not necessarily the year of GNR. The record has been build up so much, it is doomed to fail. Or ?

The multiple album thing is bullshit.

[norway]

every company wanna have the name to distribute,

why is the more album thing bullshit

did i miss out

[Mutherfunker]

The $13 millions dollar figure is really what reinforces the notion that they are recording multiple albums, IMO. No record company is going to give a guy that much money to record an album, especially after they haven't done anything in 4-5 years, assuming they didn't start recording until '99. No way in the world. Granted, Axl is one of the most famous, successful rock stars in history, but promises don't equal money. Geffen must have really, really, REALLY seen something special in this project, something they knew would be guaranteed money.

Exactly where my mind's heading with this....

@#$%Funker

[younggunner]

The multiple album thing is bullshit.

not its not ....but you can keep telling yourself that 

[Mikkamakka]

The multiple album thing is bullshit.

not its not ....but you can keep telling yourself that?

yes it is...  but you can keep telling yourself that 

[younggunner]

i dont have to tell my self that... Axl has already told me 

[Crashdiet]

One thing is sure sure axl ain't going to see a penny of the sales of the album.

Unless axl has some super contract with geffen (not likely) all the money they've given him he has to pay back out of his share of the album sales. Typically that is about 12% but in gnr's sake lets aim high... say 20%. so on 15 dollar cd gnr would make  3bucks.

now out of that 3 bucks geffen can subtract 10% for technology upkeep, 10% for returned cd's, not to mention they can deduct 50% of royalty during times they've spent promoting the album heavily (which they also deduct from gnr's royalties), as well foreign sales often lose up to 50% of the artist's royalty.

add on the cost of video's and promotion to the 13 million already, easilly another 3 million 16 million now... plus deductions

after deductions gnr will probably if luckily clear maybe 1.70 per record. gnr will have to sell 10 million before they break even, while geffen will make crazy cash.

not that axl would care because he and the rest of the band will make their money from the publishing royalties and live gigs. I'm sure axl is not concerned about the 'artist' royalty percentage.

and if they don't sell enough albums.... then the band will legally owe geffen the remainder of the costs... which they could then sue axl and take him for all he is worth.

He better hope this album does well.

[michaelvincent]

It's fairly common that a band makes their money from concert ticket and merch sales. Record contracts are set up to make record labels money. Guns N' Roses and Axl Rose are no exception to this rule. If anything they are probably more bound to this rule, as the label sees the GnR name as something of a money maker for the label. Geffen/Interscope aren't going to put out Chinese Democracy because they simply beleive in Axl and respect his art. My guess is that they don't give a flying fuck about his art. They are putting out that record because they think they are going to personally be making a mint off of it. The idea that Axl Rose is somehow exempt from this kind of treatment when every other musician with a record contract isn't is just silly.

Check out the Wilco documentary I AM TRYING TO BREAK YOUR HEART if you want to see what a bunch of motherfuckers the record industry are.