NBA 2004/2005

[Eazy E]

I find it admirable that MJ fans try to keep him the greatest but COME ON MAN!!!!!!!!

Kobe doesnt have a Scottie Pippen, he doesnt have a Horace Grant or Dennis Rodman.

The Lakers were down by 18 points when He took over and scored 55 pts in the 2nd half to lead them to a victory.

MJ didnt understand that until later in his career either.

Kobe is a better jump shooter than Jordan.

Kobe has the same intensity, the same driving ability, the same defensive ability.

Kobe is only 27 years old and if he keeps goin at this rate he will be better than MJ skill wise.

Jordan as great as he was got helped a lot by his image.

Kind of like Hulk Hogan in wrestling, his image was sooooooo huge it made him even more larger than life than he really was.


Kobe has the chance to be better than MJ.

All he needs is a few teammates and the Lakers will be untouchable.

D... Jordan IS the greatest!

There are a few players who could challenge that title, but Kobe isn't one of them.  Obviously the Bulls had an amazing team even without MJ, I'm pretty sure they went to the Eastern Finals the year he retired, but Jordan worked with his teammates and played good D.

There is a similarity between the two in terms of determination and not showing fatigue.  They both go out there and play hard the whole time.... but what Kobe's doing now doesn't make him the greatest.  When Jordan was averaging something like 37 points per game, the Bulls weren't winning championships.  He changed the way he played in order to make the team better.  That's something Kobe or Iverson don't do.  They're ball hogs and not good leaders.  How many of the Lakers do you think sincerely congratulated Kobe after the game?  They may be in awe of him, but he's not a good leader.

No way Kobe should win MVP while Steve Nash is leading the Suns to second place without Stoudemire.  A team with a Kobe or an Iverson won't be as good as Jordan's Bulls or the Detroit Pistons right now.

Of course, Kobe's career isn't over and MJ's is.... so things can change, but I don't see it happening.  Still Kobe's been playing amazing lately, and 81 points in a game is incredible.  I wouldn't give him MVP though, and definetaly not "greater than MJ".

[D]

Kobe is doing now what Jordan did earlier in his career and like Jordan he is doing it cause he has no choice.

The Lakers stink and the reason Kobe gets it over my favorite player Steve Nash is cause Nash has Shawn Marion whereas Kobe has nobody.


Jordan as great as he was will always be further elevated by the commercials, the shoes, endorsements, it makes him larger than he really is.

He right now is the GOAT but if Kobe keeps this up over 7 or 8 more years, he CAN be the greatest.

Lets not disqualify him before his career is over simply cause Jordan is always suppose to be so.

Kobe is a 1st Team all NBA defensive player as well, so not only is he scoring like he is, but he is guarding the other teams best player every night as well.

Kobe already has 3 rings and his individual numbers suffered due to Shaq, Kobe already dropped his game down to play within a team like Jordan later, he won his 3 rings, so now Kobe is showing what he can do.

In a couple years they will put a team around him and he will go back to winning titles

[Ignatius]

D, it's obvious you have something against MJ. A few months ago you say Lebrom James could be better than MJ, now you say Kobe will be better than MJ, next thing we know, you'll say Steve Nash will be better than MJ...

Have you ever seen Michael play??

How can you compare Lebron and Kobe with the greatest player any sport has ever seen? I'm not gonna go with the 6 nba titles Michael won with the bulls, but just look at his achievements. 5 MVP's, 10 scoring titles, 2 times steals leader, best defensive player or the year, 3 times all start MVP, 2 times Slam dunk champion...a million of 50 + games. A trillion of buzzer beaters...

There's no one like him. I don't know if there will ever be another player just as good, but shit, it wont be Kobe or Lebron James that's for sure.

You said Jordan won his nba rings because of his teammates? Hmm...that's right, Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant. They were superstars when they signed with the bulls right? how about Paxon? How about Craig Hodges and Jimmy Hansen and Sam Vincent? Not too mention Bill Cartwright and Luc Longley. Yes, what a line up.

Oh, there's Dennis Rodman, I'll give you that one. He sure helped the Bulls threepeat.

There's something you don't understand; all those players were mediocre until Michael made them better. Scottie and Horace weren't superstars when they signed for the bulls, they were both drafted in low positions. They got better playing with MJ.

MJ, despite's his amazing talent, had the strongest determination to win. He is/was a true leader. He understood he needed help from his teammates so he made them as good as they could be.

Look at Scottie or Horace, what the hell have they done without Michael? Scottie didn't do shit for Portland or Houston (despite playing with Hakeem, Barkley and Clyde Drexler) not too mention with the Blazers. His highest scoring season was 15 points a game after MJ's retirement. Horace Grant won a ring with the lakers but he was AC Green's sub!

Kobe bryant has won 3 titles. He knows what he should do to make his teammates better, is he doing it? Fuck no he is not. He is just there scoring 2/3 of his teams points just because he wanted to be in the history books. His Assits stats are the lowest in years!

So yeah, go on and keep trying to find a player with more potential than MJ. Sure you find plenty of those, but none will ever make it as huge as MJ did.

[Surfrider]

I am a huge Laker fan.  I have to agree with D on this one.  People just don't like Kobe.  MJ scores in the 80's and everyone would rave about it.  Kobe does it, he is a ball-hog.  Kobe shot about 60% in that game.  Most teams don't shoot that on any night.  Therefore, if he is shooting at a higher percentage doing it himself, then the team would if everyone was involved, he should be the one that shoots.

The fact is Kobe has noone.  The Lakers never really had anyone outside of Kobe and Shaq.  Now that Shaq is gone there is noone for Kobe.

MJ was great.  Surely the greatest ever.  However, I agree with D, if Kobe continues to shoot like this and ends up winning another title or two he should be right there.  I also think D made a great point, as great as MJ was, much of his hype was due to the commercials and image portrayed.  There is no one that can ever match the image MJ had to the world.

[BigCombo]

The lakers were down by 18 points the 3rd quarter.  Kobe didn't score 55 in the 2nd half to pad his stats; he shot to win the game.  Last month he scored 62 points through 3 quarters against Dallas.  Did he play the 4th quarter?  NO, he told phil he didn't want to play b/c they were up by 34 points.  Hate the player, not his game.

[Eazy E]

The lakers were down by 18 points the 3rd quarter. Kobe didn't score 55 in the 2nd half to pad his stats; he shot to win the game. Last month he scored 62 points through 3 quarters against Dallas. Did he play the 4th quarter? NO, he told phil he didn't want to play b/c they were up by 34 points. Hate the player, not his game.

No one's questioning whether or not Kobe had an amazing game... I mean, he scored 81 points!  It seems to me though that Kobe's attitude is "my team can't win, I'm the only one that can get the job done", and that won't work most of the time.  Look at Iverson... you give him Webber, you give him Mutumbo, but Philly hasn't been better than average.  These two have the same attitude.  Don't get me wrong though, these guys are definetaly huge talents, but they lack that will to make the team win that MJ brought to the court.  72 wins in one season!... You can put Shaq, Malone and Payton around Kobe and they can't win 72 games (or a championship).  Sure, the Lakers won the titles a few years back, but I would give more credit to Shaq than Kobe.  He heads off to Miami and they jump to the top of the East, meanwhile the Lakers aren't even the best team in L.A. 

Kobe might drop 82 which is amazing, but I don't think he's deserving of getting MVP.  The way Kobe is playing will probably just be enough to get them into the playoffs... You can argue whether or not you think he should get MVP (which he shouldn't -- Nash, Duncan, Wade, a third stringer from the Pistons)... but he's got nothing on Jordan.  Yeah, he had a larger than life reputation, but he did everything he could to ruin it by retiring to play in an MLB farm league... but then he comes back and does another back-to-back-to-back.

[BigCombo]

The lakers were well on their way to win more than 72 games until Malone got hurt.  Subsequently, Shaq and Kobe also missed significant stretches of time during that season.   

While the Heat have improved, they didn't make it to the "top" of the east.  This season, their record is only a few games better than the lakers and they play in an arguably weaker conference.  Look at who the heat have on their team.  So many big names...maybe shaq is also having troubles not being the focal point of their offense.

It's tough to define the mvp.  best player?  or most valuable to team?  Without kobe, the lakers would be last in the west, without nash, the suns would be respectable. 

You don't think kobe has anything on jordan?  Kobe is definitely as clutch as Jordan.  No, he hasn't led his team to 6 championships or made his players better like jordan, but show some respect.
 

[Ignatius]

MJ was great.? Surely the greatest ever.? However, I agree with D, if Kobe continues to shoot like this and ends up winning another title or two he should be right there.?

What point in this discussion you are not getting? MJ was beyond personal stats, but if that's what you are using to value a player. Look at Kobe's stats and look at Michael's. I already pointed out all MJ's personal achivements through the years, but at the age of 27, MJ had already won 2 MVP's, 5 scoring titles, 2 steals leaders, 1 all star MVP, 5 times named in the best DEFENSIVE team of the league and once named the BEST DEFENSIVE PLAYER. Not to forget, the slam dunks contests. Now, has Kobe achieved that much at the age of 27?

Michael was a better player (in both the defensive and offensive ends), had a better attitude and had more charisma.

That's the difference. Some of you need to watch more MJ's games. It's amazing how memory turns into something weak since you don't remember anything MJ's done for the game.

Some of you blame Michael's success on his image and his face being on Tv all the time. Well, the reason why Kobe is not getting all the publicity is mainly because he was accused of rape a few years back. Nike had a double page ad recently in SI featuring Kobe, so I guess this is a sign that maybe all those brands are betting on Kobe again. However, he will never have the charisma Michael did. Kobe is just too self-centered, even more than MJ...could you imagine a tv ad now saying " Like Kobe, I want to be like Kobe" Me niether. He just doesn't have that charisma appeal.

Michael's life hasn't been a bed of roses either. Have all of you forgotten how the media smashed his image with "the Jordan Rules" or how Tv's all over the world spreaded out his gambling addiction? Or how he was blamed for his father murder?

Without kobe, the lakers would be last in the west, without nash, the suns would be respectable.

Haha, don't make me laugh. Do you follow the NBA at all? Man, When Nash signed for the Suns, the previous season (without Nash) the Suns won 26 games, lost 56.? With Nash, the Suns won more games last year than any other team in the NBA.? So yeah, you were right on there?

[Cocaine__tongue]

I totally agree with my spanish friend. Jordan and Bryant are not even in the same league. Jordan is the best ever. Kobe is not even the best player in the league at the moment (imo, Lebron, Duncan, Garnett , Nash are above).

[Ignatius]

I totally agree with my spanish friend. Jordan and Bryant are not even in the same league. Jordan is the best ever. Kobe is not even the best player in the league at the moment (imo, Lebron, Duncan, Garnett , Nash are above).

 

See, even Axl's lawyer agrees with me?

[Eazy E]

Pippen has an interesting blog on the MJ & Kobe comparisons:

http://www.nba.com/blog/blog30.html

Basically, with a shift away from rough, physical defense, scoring has become easier because that's what the league wants to attract fans.  You can't compare what MJ had to go through to get his points in comparison to Kobe (who made it to 81 on free throws at the end).


This part is good:

From a leadership perspective I think Kobe has taken a step back. Look at what he has to live up to now. You just scored 81 points. If you scored 81 points, your team should pretty much go out and win at least 75 percent of their games the rest of the year. Is that fair to say? You just compared yourself to Wilt. Can you go out with your team and do that or are you just going to go out and score tons of points every night? Are you going to get back to the point where you are shooting a lot of shots and you're teammates are not shooting and you're losing?

Right now, Kobe has willed the Lakers to a 22-19 record. It will be interesting to see what happens the rest of the way.

[Ignatius]

Pippen has an interesting blog on the MJ & Kobe comparisons:

http://www.nba.com/blog/blog30.html

Basically, with a shift away from rough, physical defense, scoring has become easier because that's what the league wants to attract fans.? You can't compare what MJ had to go through to get his points in comparison to Kobe (who made it to 81 on free throws at the end).


This part is good:

From a leadership perspective I think Kobe has taken a step back. Look at what he has to live up to now. You just scored 81 points. If you scored 81 points, your team should pretty much go out and win at least 75 percent of their games the rest of the year. Is that fair to say? You just compared yourself to Wilt. Can you go out with your team and do that or are you just going to go out and score tons of points every night? Are you going to get back to the point where you are shooting a lot of shots and you're teammates are not shooting and you're losing?

Right now, Kobe has willed the Lakers to a 22-19 record. It will be interesting to see what happens the rest of the way.

Interesting read. Thx for posting that Eazy.

[sandman]

Kobe has NEVER even been the best player in the league at any time in his career. So how could he be the best ever???

Jordan made his TEAM better, and his teammates respected him because they knew his #1 goal was to win championships. The same cannot be said for kobe. 

[BigCombo]

The Phoenix Suns team 3 years ago wasn't the same suns team today.  Without nash, the suns still have amare Stodamire and Shawn Marion.  Both are all-stars.  Kobe has the worst suppporting cast in the entire nba.  He has to carry his team.  Put Nash on the lakers, and they'd be below 500.  Nash is a great player, but he has awsome talent around him.

If you don't think Kobe is the best player in the league, you are jealous; or feel threatened by Kobe's success.  There was a great segment on the Colbert Report...Stephan told kobe to stop confusing him b/c he thought jordan was the best player ever.  I'm not arguing that kobe is the better player than jordan; but give kobe his props.

 He is without a doubt the most talented, driven, clutch player in the NBA right now.

[Eazy E]

Artest finally gets traded!

I think Indiana got the better end of the deal, personally.  I wouldn't want Artest on my team, but I'm sure he'll be able to make a difference in Sacramento.  Indiana should get a good boost from having Peja on their team.

[BigCombo]

But Peja is an unrestricted FA after the season.  If Indy doesn't win it this year...they'll have given artest away.

[Eazy E]

But Peja is an unrestricted FA after the season. If Indy doesn't win it this year...they'll have given artest away.

Well considering how weak the East is, Indiana could make a decent run in the playoffs now.
That's not terrible for an inactive Ron Artest... and if Peja fits well with the team they can resign him.

I'm going to be watching the Kings / Raps game on Sunday so this will make that game a little more interesting. 

[Rob]

Its great to see Artest finally gone.  Anyway, Jordan was by far a better player than Kobe.  When Kobe won his titles he was part of an amazing one-two punch with him and Shaq.  Jordan never had a teammate half as good/dominant as Shaq, and that's including Pippen.  Jordan was the most dominant player in the league for more than a decade.  Kobe was never even the most dominant player on his team until Shaq left.  In addition, Kobe is a horrible teamate who does nothing to make his fellow players better.  Even in the most clutch situations, Jordan wasn't above dishing the ball to John Paxson or Steve Kerr to take the last shot if he thought they were in better position to do so.  Kobe is one of the best players in basketball right now.  Jordan was basketball in his day.  To compare the two is laughable.

[Cocaine__tongue]

But Peja is an unrestricted FA after the season.? If Indy doesn't win it this year...they'll have given artest away.

If Cleveland are able to get peja as a free agent next seasons, LeBron will win his first NBA Championship (just imagine Hughes, Lebron and peja as the starting backcourt......)

[Ignatius]

The Phoenix Suns team 3 years ago wasn't the same suns team today.? Without nash, the suns still have amare Stodamire and Shawn Marion.? Both are all-stars.? Kobe has the worst suppporting cast in the entire nba.? He has to carry his team.? Put Nash on the lakers, and they'd be below 500.? Nash is a great player, but he has awsome talent around him.

You still don't get it, do you?

Marion's been playing with the Suns since 99 and Stoudemire since the 02-03 season. The Suns, with these two allstarts, won 26 games in the 03-04 season.

With Nash the Suns last year (04/05) won more games than any other team in the league. Don't you understand it? Nash is responsible for such an improvement. He's made his teammates better, like Michael did.

So please, stop throwing ridiculous theories if "Nash played in the lakers" "if Nash didn't have Marion..." because as I already proved to you, they are pointless.