NBA 2004/2005

[Ignatius]

Agree. Didn't Coleman won the NBA rookie of the year 15 years ago? He's always been a talented player, but for some reason, he's never reached the expectations.

Same with Larry Johnson or kenny Anderson. They were number one and two draft picks but didn't do too much. Well, Larry did play in a few allstars and made a few commercials but retired early.

I wouldn't have traded Okur. Big Fella, big all aound moves, young and good jumper. I don't know what Brown was thinking.

Wilkins is another of those "losers". He was a great scorer and always appeared in every highlight show, but the Hawks never passed the Eastern Semis. He ended up in Greece winning ( finally) the Euroleague a few years back.

[D]

i can stick jerry stackhouse in that category also, that was my tracy mcgrady argument

sure mcgrady is a prolific scorer and a great, great individual player but to me until proven otherwise he is more about his stats and highlights than the overall good of the team. i hope he proves me wrong cause i really like Tmac

thats jerry stackhouse, all the talent in the world but just never made anyone around him better, never sacrificed himself for the team.

the difference in a Mcgrady vs say Lebron James, if Mcgrady is having a bad shooting night he will kill your team cause he doesnt play defense, not a great passer doesnt really rebound or do any of the intangible small things.

if lebron is having a bad shooting night, he is still rebounding,dishing out assists and helping the team.
Kevin Garnett had that label for a while but has shed it.

anyone else gonna vote for the NBA all star team?

just go to www.NBA.com and vote

put one in for Nowitzki if u dont have any preferences.

[Ignatius]

Noviwsky will start. Yoy don't need to demand votes for him, cause he will amongst the most voted. He will play as 4, Garnett as 3 ( or the other way around) Duncan as 5, Mac as 2 and Kobe as 1. What a line up!!

I have to require some help cause I want my man in there, Gasol. He's averaging good numbers, but he is screwed due to the fact he plays in the western conference and there are a million great players to chose from as 4 or 5. We've got Stojakovic, Webber, Garnett, Duncan, Nowitzki, Anthony, Boozer...the list is endless 

[D]

i love the grizzlies they are my 4th fav team behind

1.dallas
2.indiana
3.phoenix
4.memphis


i love jason williams

i am hoping now that mike fratello is the coach pau gasol and company with thrive more in a more conventional system

i hate the 5 men rotation that Hubie did.

gasol at 35pts 16 boards or somethingl like that in his first game under fratello, so heres to hoping

i dont like Tim Duncan, Carmelo Anthony isnt an all star this year, he has been reduced to a 6th man

i dont see how anyone argued that he was better than Lebron

Lebron does it all, Carmelo scores, Dwayne Wade is the rival to Lebron now, its no longer Carmelo.

i wonder if Toronto are kickin themselves for takin Chris Bosh over Wade?  imagine that team wade,rose,carter, WOW!

here is how im voting  *personal favorites of course factor in*


eastern conference

Dwayne Wade
Lebron James
Antawn Jamison  *wouldve been artest*
Jermaine O'Neal  this guy is the best power forward and got ripped off, he shouldnt have been suspended that long for punchin a fan who was trespassin on the court.
shaquille O'neal


western conference it was

Steve Nash *2nd fav player* also the engine averaging over 12 assists a game*
Kobe Bryant
Pau Gasol
Dirk Nowtizki
Jamal Maglore

in the west there are no centers to choose from, im not votin for Yao ming cause i think he has had a horrible season. he will win though cause of the China vote.


the west is stacked, u still have duncan,garnett and amare stoudamire who i didnt vote for, so its crazy tryin to choose!

[Fuckin' Gunner]

My favourite team is the Lakers and my favourite player is Kobe Bryant. He almost made an fourty-double 2 nights ago... 10 pts, 12 rebs, 10 assts and 8 TO...

Anyways, I think the Lakers can win... if they make playoffs (they're 8-6 now), just put the ball on Kobe's hands and let him take the shots...

[greekmule]

Lebronze is a pretty good player but can't be compared to MJ.He may be only 19 but don't forget that when MJ was 21 he led the USA basketball team (which at that time consisted of college players) to the gold medal.On the other hand Lebronze failed to lead a USA team full of NBA players...

MJ is the only player in history who didn't have ANY weaknesses- he had the perfect combination of body,mind and soul.And most importantly he wanted to play like MJ every single night !

On a side note glad to see that Dirk has so many american fans! He has the potential to become the greatest forward of all time

[Ignatius]

On a side note glad to see that Dirk has so many american fans! He has the potential to become the greatest forward of all time

I wouldn't go that far. If he plays the way he's been playing he may have a go at the MVP of the year, but I don't think he will ever be as good as Larry Bird to name somebody. We are talking about the greatest forward of all time here. Dirk has a long way to go still...

[Cocaine__tongue]

I order to be considered in the same list, dirk has still to get  a couple of rings in his hands. if he manages so during his career, his status could be the same as bird's.

[D]

Dirk is the greatest international player ever hands down in my opinion

Larry Bird helped make the league what it is today

Dirk will never have the impact Bird did

without Bird and Magic the NBA probably wouldnt be popular today.

Dirk however is being credited with revolutionizing the game by his versatility and size, being able to do everything on the floor

once heimproves his passing and defense he will definitely be a top 3 player.

[g-inan.rose]

  hi, out there. at first i wanna say that i love basketball and it?s a pleassure being a part of this sportsculture( as a fan and streetballplayer) . o.k  i just read your posts about good NBA -players and and i think it?s difficult to say as an objective person whose players skills are great. normally everyone compares teams or players by their stats but basketball or sports in generall also have something to do with more than just skills . i think m.j is the best example becaus he showed with will , concentration, discipline and of course his incredibile talent as an athlete something legendary . but i have to admitt that there aren?t players who play on the same level , i believe that there have been great players ( Scottie pippen,bird,magic ,thomas,the mailman, grant hill(not a lucky guy) drexler, payton, kobe, garnett, perhaps, lebron, dirk , t- mac and many moore . but the point is that all that criticising and preassure , money don?t help those guys . just watch the players who have enourmos shoe deals, no one of them has won a ring: garnett, iverson, mc crady, lebron, marbury. the nba life is hard and not every of those probablly 400 players is able to present what he has in store every game ( 82 games+ playoffs) . u have to be a fighter and most important a TEAMPLAYER to achive something in te NBA,there are a lot of fighters in this league.(our pleassure)   ps: watch out for wade,duncan is boring but unbelievabely good and sorry for mistakes        see you  L.A ! linz austria

[Malcolm]

The Toronto Raptors have traded All-Star swingman Vince Carter to the New Jersey Nets in exchange for center Alonzo Mourning, forward Eric Williams, center/forward Aaron Williams and two conditional first-round draft picks. The trade cannot be announced until the NBA approves it for salary-cap purposes.

Carter, who is currently on the injured list with a strained left Achilles, started at guard alongside new teammate Jason Kidd for the Eastern Conference in last season's All-Star Game.

Now in his seventh season, Carter has averaged 23.4 points, 5.2 rebounds and 3.9 assists. He was drafted fifth overall in 1998 after his junior season at North Carolina by Golden State, which traded his rights to the Raptors in exchange for the drafts rights to Antawn Jamison.

Mourning, who has not played since December 7, has been undergoing treatment for an assortment of ailments, including a sinus infection. The Nets signed Mourning to a four-year, $22 million contract prior to the 2003-04 season, but his time with New Jersey lasted only 12 games because of a condition known as focal glomerulosclerosis. He was forced to stop playing on November 25, 2003 and underwent a kidney transplant less than a month later with an organ donated by his cousin.

Mourning was the second overall pick in 1992 by the Hornets and twice was the Defensive Player of the Year (1999 and 2000) with the Miami Heat. Mourning did not play in 2002-03 because of the kidney disease.

He is a seven-time All-Star who owns career averages of 19.8 points and 9.6 rebounds.

Aaron Williams, who was in his fifth season with the Nets, has averaged 6.5 points and 4.2 rebounds over his 11-year career which has included stops in Utah, Milwaukee, Denver, Vancouver, Seattle and Washington.

Eric Williams was in his first season with the Nets after signing as a free agent in August. He was selected by Boston with the 14th pick overall in the 1995 NBA Draft and has had two stints with the Celtics. Eric Williams, who has averaged 9.3 points and 3.5 boards, has also played for Denver and Cleveland.

One of the draft picks the Raptors received was Denver's first-round pick in 2005. It is protected if it turns out to be one of the first three.

The other, which also came from Denver, is protected if it is one of the top eight in the 2005 lottery and one of the first five in 2006.

[Ignatius]

he Toronto Raptors have traded All-Star swingman Vince Carter to the New Jersey Nets in exchange for center Alonzo Mourning, forward Eric Williams, center/forward Aaron Williams and two conditional first-round draft picks. The trade cannot be announced until the NBA approves it for salary-cap purposes.

Conditional is the key word in that sentence. The trade is a win-win for both teams actually. It will be interesting to see how Vince will play with Kido and Jefferson.

[D]

this isnt good for Toronto, the got eric williams and aaron williams, mourning wont play for toronto, he will be bought out or traded.

2 conditional first rd picks means any pick that isnt a top 5 pick, so really toronto shipped out their top money maker for nothing

there isnt anyone they could draft that could take the place of Carter's marketing appeal and ability to draw fans.

his numbers have slipped but he still is a huge box office draw.

so i dont think it was a good idea

i think they couldve got a much better deal for carter had they held out.

[Cocaine__tongue]

Air canada is certainly not the same player he was a couple of years ago. Of course he is still one of the top players (he can still score 25 points a game easily), but he's not in the same category as KB or LJ. It's still a nice addition to the nets.

What do you think of king games??. is he the next ptbntnmj (player to be named the next michael jordan)??. cleveland will surely make the playoffs, and with him playing at the level he is right now, anything can happen

[D]

he is 19 years old averagine 25pts 7 rebs and 7 assists a game


that is amazing

he is a different player than jordan

james is more like larry bird and magic johnson than jordan

jordan was a better defender and a better scorer, james is better at making his teammates better.


Lebron has already improved his jumpshot by leaps and bounds over last year

imagine in 5 years if he keeps improving how awesome he will be?

i think he can be the greatest player ever when its all said and done.

he has nothing on that team and they are still good.

[Ignatius]

jordan was a better defender and a better scorer, james is better at making his teammates better.

How could you say that? Did the Cavs win all the sudden 6 NBA titles? they didn't even reach the playoffs yet. The guy is 19 years old and you say he is better than Mike making his teammates better...incredible 

D, let me ask you something...Did Scotty Pippen, John Paxon, Horace Grant, Craig Hodges, Hansen, Rodney MCcray, Bill Cartwright, Brad Sellers... were any good before they teamed up with Mike?

Pippen spent the first few years coming off the bench, same with Horace. Paxon was just an average guy who'd never dreamed of ever scoring the winning shot in the NBA finals, Hansen, played for the Jazz, he was Jeff Malone's replacement. McCray, a houston Rockets average player, Cartwright was Ewing's sub in New York...Not too mention Brad Sellers...he was aweful. Hodges, a great three point shooter, was just that until he signed with the Bulls...these guys were Michael's teammates during the Bulls first three titles!!  All of them were mediocre to say the least until they understood their role in the Bulls. How can you say Lebron makes his teammates better? He is just 19 for God's Sake. Yes, he may averaged 25 pts, 7 assit and7 boards...but you need to be a great leader to make your teammates better.

You are telling me a 19 year old kid was a better leader than Mike?


One more thing, the eastern conference ( especially Central division) is the weakest is been in 30 years. Central Division 15 years ago was the strongest is ever been. MJ bulls back then in 88, with a record of 50-32 ranked 4th. That record, today, will make your team 2nd in the whole conference.

[Cocaine__tongue]

There's no doubt lebron james is waaaaaaaaaay too far from Mj. Until he reaches his status, he has to do the following:

-win 6 nba rings
-10 scoring titles
-defender of the year award
-4 mvp's, a couple of all star mvp's and slam dunk championships
-score at least 69 points during the season or 63 in playoffs while some other superstar calls him "god"
-score 45 in the playoffs while playing sick
-retire
-make a couple of comebacks with at least one astonishing performance in the garden wearing number 45 and win at least 3 nba titles after comeback number one.
- etc etc...

No doubt lebron is one of the best players at the moment, and if he continues to play the way he is doing now, he will sure become one of the greatest ever. but only time will tell.

[D]

i agree with most of that but the scoring titles

Lebron isnt that type of player

u also must remember micheal jordan took 27 to 30 shots per contest to get that scoring average, whereas lebron is more about getting his teammates involved and shoots maybe 18 to 22 times a game

ignatius:

u are calling the detroit pistons and the indiana pacers weak??


im speaking of their second years in the league Lebron is better than jordan at making people better

give lebron time, he cant win 6 titles when he has only played 2 years.

Jordan's first few years in the league he was a ballhawk, he didnt make anyone better, he put up great numbers but he didnt do anything for his teammates

he later learned that he needed help and then started making his teammates better

but through their first 2 seasons overall Lebron is better at making his teammates better

Jordan would score 50 a game but his team never won.

i dont think u realize how horrible cleveland were till Lebron arrived
and like i said they have only one other player who could possibly start on another team in the league and thats jake illgauskis *sP*

scottie pippen was one of the 50 greatest players, Horace grant was the most overlooked piece of that puzzle
facts are without scottie pippena nd horace grant, later scottie pippen and dennis rodman, jordan doesnt win those championships

after jordan retired the bulls still made the Eastern conference finals and if they hadnt been bullshitted they wouldve returned to the finals

so dont under value scottie pippen and horace grant's talents without jordan.

[Ignatius]

i agree with most of that but the scoring titles

Lebron isnt that type of player

u also must remember micheal jordan took 27 to 30 shots per contest to get that scoring average, whereas lebron is more about getting his teammates involved and shoots maybe 18 to 22 times a game

ignatius:

u are calling the detroit pistons and the indiana pacers weak??


im speaking of their second years in the league Lebron is better than jordan at making people better

give lebron time, he cant win 6 titles when he has only played 2 years.

Jordan's first few years in the league he was a ballhawk, he didnt make anyone better, he put up great numbers but he didnt do anything for his teammates

he later learned that he needed help and then started making his teammates better

but through their first 2 seasons overall Lebron is better at making his teammates better

Jordan would score 50 a game but his team never won.

i dont think u realize how horrible cleveland were till Lebron arrived
and like i said they have only one other player who could possibly start on another team in the league and thats jake illgauskis *sP*

scottie pippen was one of the 50 greatest players, Horace grant was the most overlooked piece of that puzzle
facts are without scottie pippena nd horace grant, later scottie pippen and dennis rodman, jordan doesnt win those championships

after jordan retired the bulls still made the Eastern conference finals and if they hadnt been bullshitted they wouldve returned to the finals

so dont under value scottie pippen and horace grant's talents without jordan.

Little by little...

First of all...you have to be a leader to make your teammates better. Yes, the guy averages 25 - 7 & 7 a game, but you need to gain respect from your teammates and peers. You will? onyl get that through experience, age and perseverance. James is a 19 year old kid who happens to play great ball. His time will come.

Second... D, please take a look at the eastern coference stats today. There are 15 teams, 7 have an above 50% record. That means more than half of those teams have a losing record. Look at the Central division standings for a moment...2nd and 3rd spots are barely above the 50% mark. The cavs are at 58% and they are division leaders. 15 years ago the dominant conference was the eastern conference. The toughest division was the central with the hawks, bulls, pistons, bucks, pacers, cavs...they all average a 50% or higher record then. The eastern conference was what the western is today. That means, even a mediocre team like the cavs, is able to lead the central division. Pacers and Pistons although very solid defensive teams, struggle to score. The pistons were so lucky they faced the unmotivated Lakers in the Finals last year. Had they played against the Wolves or Spurs, they would've gotten their ass kicked.

Third...Pippen made it on that list because he played along side MJ. Yes, the bulls reached the conference finals once MJ retired, but what did Scottie and Horace accomplish afterwards? Scottie has played with Houston and Portland and his performance has been way worse than what we saw with the Bulls. He's always been a overrated player, lucky enough he played with Mike. Otherwise he would have never won anything. Same with Horace...he played with Shaq in LA and Orlando, signed a bad ass contract, but did he reach out the expectations? No he didn't... I guess what I'm trying to say here is, pippen and grant were good players, but they would've never accomplished anything without Mike.? MJ made them better

About MJ been a ballhawk...well, he was a shooting guard, not a guard. He had many field goal attemps that's true, but he always kept a percentage above 50% till at least his 8th year in the league. Tell me now D, what's Lebron field goal %? Exactly. Oh and by the way, in 89, after the all star game, Doug Collings ask Mike to play guard for the last? quarter of the season. Do you know what his numbers were? He got 15 triple doubles, 32 pts a game, 8 boards and 8 assits...and those numbers were not enough I guess to give him the MVP award...

[D]

yes but that was MJ's 3rd or 4th year

im statingthrough 2 seasons

it is hard to fathom anyone being greater than jordan but i believe Lebron has the best chance, just based on what he has done so far

now if he stays where he is now for the rest of his career he will just be a great player

but if he keeps improving by his 24th or 25th birthday he is gonna be a phenom to which the league has never witnessed


look at the championships in the 90's the bulls won

the league was down!

in the early 90's u had the pistons *but they were being dismantled thanks to a change in management*

the aging lakers and the trailblazers

the knicks had yet to come into their own, the cavs were good but not what id consider dominant

after jordan came back u had new york,orlando *till shaq went to LA* indiana, miami, utah,houston and san antoinio

the league is a lot more competitive right now than in the 90's in my opinion.


at 19 years old Lebron James is better overall than Jordan was at 19 years old and is close to where Jordan was in his 2nd NBA season.

Lebron's field goal percentage isnt the best but u must remember, jordan's field goal percentage was only that good cause he slashed and drove to the basket and was unstoppable in doing so

it took Jordan a very long time to develop a decent jump shot.