Duff says Scott was around more than Axl during songwriting.

[Booker Floyd]

So what about your comments about Axl being isolated and flaky? What's that got to do with his song writing?

Cant say for sure, but Im guessing those factors had something to do with Duffs statement.

You're the one who brought up Axl's personality, which funnily enough, seems to be similar to Scott's personality.

I brought up his personality as it [probably] relates to Duffs quote...you brought up Scotts in spite of it.? Yeah, Scotts a flake...hes also isolated, aloof, tempermental and a manic-depressive drug addict.? Despite these facts, hes stil managed to hold himself together enough to put out an album, tour (missing few dates), and work with the others, apparently.  So bringing Scotts personality proves what exactly?  Unless you did it to praise him?

[D]

u axl defenders need to get a grip

Duff wasnt bashing axl or saying it was a bad thing, he just simply stated how its two different things

i mean shit, axl himself admitted how he would phone shit in etc etc

not saying one way is better than the other

but was scott around more than axl for CB than axl was for the illusions, id say yes and thats what duff is tryin to say

nothing bad, no bashing, nothing against axl, he is simply stating what he believes to be factual and judgin by axl's interviews duff is right.

once again it isnt a diss or a bash at all.

[IzzyDutch]

The majority of the songs on Contraband are written after Scott joined them

[Ignatius]

Duff keeps contradicting himself to continue with his non-sense statements.

By saying Axl was not around during song writing I guess he is referring to the Illusions era. AFD ws written while on the road and in that little studio they all lived in as well. He couldn't have been around more as he did when AFD was written.

In the Illusions era it's true that Duff did his parts separetely from Axl ( same as Slash, Izzy and Matt) but as Jarmo pointed out the quote "one of us gets an idea and then it gets worked on by the rest of the band" gives you an idea of how Duff may have contradicted himself these days. Or maybe he was too drunk then to even remember.

Speaking of VR now, it's my understanding, 30 demos were send out to Scott to add vocals on. He did on 6 of them, so he probably worked with the guys in 5 more songs altogether. It's not like he sat down with the guys and jammed/recorded with the rest of the band during song writing either.

As far as new GNR goes, maybe every current members have bullshitted us, but how many times have Tommy, Dizzy or any other member said everyone has been involved in the songwriting? I recall Tommy saying something like ?"Axl accepts ideas from everybody. Axl will take credit in pretty much every song, but everybody has participated. I feel like we have all contributed and we are all equally responsible for the album" Not exact quotes, but along those lines.

Axl may have spent more time in the studio ( adding vocals, producing) but the whole band has worked as a band during songwriting.

Who knows, maybe if the new GNR album doesn't see the light and this band splits, we may see Tommy saying something like " Axl was a dictator, an asshole, and he wasn't around during songwriting..." Who should we believe then?

[IzzyDutch]

Duff is not contradicting himself... Not every song is written with the same approach, it could be when they're jamming, one of them could get an idea and bring them to the rest, it could be one of them writing a complete song.

And they said in interviews that when Scott joined them, the songwriting approach took a different form. Scott would be there saying which part he liked or didn't like, there's an old interview with the band jamming and Scott says: "You should extend that intro, I can definetly do something with that". Also Slash's lead on Loving The Alien was inspired by a piano melody from Scott.

There's a big deal here being made about nothing...

[jarmo]

Let's assume Duff means what he's accused of saying. Axl didn't write that much. But look at the song writing credits. It's not like Duff is the one responsible for most of the songs either.

Izzy is reponsible for a lot of songs on the UYI albums.

Maybe he should say "Axl didn't write that much. Usually Izzy would bring in a song and then we'd work on it. Except when I brought in two songs and we worked on those".



/jarmo

[Top-Hatted One]

thats the problem they were a band when they recorded AFD but not when they recorded Illusions without Axl

[Booker Floyd]

Let's assume Duff means what he's accused of saying. Axl didn't write that much.

Thats not what hes accused of saying.  Hes saying Axl didnt work with the rest of the band that much.  He probably wrote plenty, just not with the rest of the band, which might explain something like Izzy not even knowing "My World" was on his record.

Izzy is reponsible for a lot of songs on the UYI albums.

So is Slash...   But its kind of beside the point, because anyone of them can be credited as a primary songwriter, it doesnt exactly answer how much time they spent together developing the songs.

Speaking of VR now, it's my understanding, 30 demos were send out to Scott to add vocals on. He did on 6 of them, so he probably worked with the guys in 5 more songs altogether. It's not like he sat down with the guys and jammed/recorded with the rest of the band during song writing either.

Or he actually worked with the band on those previously existing demos (by the way, if there was 6, that leaves 7 more)?  Like we saw in the VH1 special with "Set Me Free."

As far as new GNR goes, maybe every current members have bullshitted us

This isnt about new GNR...

[mikegiuliana]

"It's totally, always a band effort," he says of Velvet Revolver's democracy. "The songwriting process was a band thing with Guns, too, but Scott is around more than our previous lead singer."

What's so hard to understand.? Scott is around more then axl was, he must be talking of the later days of gnr, the phone in sessions.. "axl sightings were few and far between"..

WHy not go with the idea they are working on another album ,that they will be touring japan and australia, all stuff they said they WOULD do..? WHy not stick with that stuff, the idea they give info months n months in advance ,keep the fans informed and actually come through with their word..

Who cares what duff said in regards to who he feels was around more? The question is where is axl now?

[Ignatius]

Or he actually worked with the band on those previously existing demos (by the way, if there was 6, that leaves 7 more)?? Like we saw in the VH1 special with "Set Me Free."

You are correct. For a moment I thought Contraband had only 11 songs.

He didn't work with the band on those demos. They were sent out to him, he added his vocals. He may have worked with the band on the remaining half of the album, but not on the first half dozen songs.

The point? is, from what we know, Axl may have worked with the band in a lot of songs from the Illusions, but recorded them separetely. Scott on the other hand, was not around when Slash and Duff wrote the demos.

[Booker Floyd]

He didn't work with the band on those demos. They were sent out to him, he added his vocals. He may have worked with the band on the remaining half of the album, but not on the first half dozen songs.

This just isnt true...

I already cited "Set Me Free."? The documentary showed Scott coming up with hs vocals with the band...who knows if he aided in any other additions/changes.

Then theres "Big Machine," which was a demo that was rearranged by Scott.? So to say that Scott simply added vocals to those 6 tracks, without working on them further with the band, isnt true.? We know that the band came up with 6 demos that could have been basic riffs at the very least when Scott decided to work on them.

[Walapino]

Get a grip pets, Duff just sayed that Axl wasnt around that much in the studio when they wrote the songs that has nothing to do with Axl actually writing material or not, Its just that physically he wasnt there most of the time, he probably did it by himself. Shit you people should know by now Axl barely shows up ANYWHERE.

[D]

Let's assume Duff means what he's accused of saying. Axl didn't write that much. But look at the song writing credits. It's not like Duff is the one responsible for most of the songs either.

Izzy is reponsible for a lot of songs on the UYI albums.

Maybe he should say "Axl didn't write that much. Usually Izzy would bring in a song and then we'd work on it. Except when I brought in two songs and we worked on those".



/jarmo

i think Duff meant that it wasnt all Axl like most people think and maybe the credits were distorted somewhat which it made it look like all the songs were axl's doing when in reality maybe izzy did most of the song and axl wrote maybe half the lyrics but GNR fans seem to wanna give axl more credit than izzy simply cause he is axl.

I could buy that and totally understand that, cause i remember being younger and seein the dont cry credits and immediately thought maybe izzy did the guitar part but axl did everything else.

i always thought patience was wrote lyrically by axl etc etc

so i think Duff *if he said that* was frustrated with how axl gets so much credit and not all of it is deserved.

i watched the inside out again last night and the band said they had music for 5 songs already when scott joined, which means they wrote 8 together.

during the illusions everyone brought individual songs and then each member put their stamp on it.

so Duff was right, the CB process was more collaborative than the illusion process

i dont see why people are so vehemently denying it.

Duff isnt saying scott is better, he isnt sayin CB is better than UYI, he is just stating thefacts that CB was wrote in a more traditional manner whereas UYI's were more of each member doing his own thing.

[mikegiuliana]

http://vr.belowempty.com/lyrics.php

This says who did what..I'm  sure when vr where hanging around trying to find a singer they did most of the instrmuntals and even wrote songs with say izzy, but being scott is their lead singer there's no doubts he wrote lyrics he wanted to sing.. He's not just some replacement playing whatever the band handed him ,his input was important because he has to believe in teh work being he will be performing the songs and having to show emotion...

SOng wriitng was a group thing with gnr, and vr, just scott is visable more..

[Doc Emmett Brown]

thats the problem they were a band when they recorded AFD but not when they recorded Illusions without Axl

yeah... ?that's how I interpret Duff's comment as well. ?He's talking about songwriting for the UYIs, when they were no longer living together, and they werent as tight as they used to be. ?

Maybe he should say "Axl didn't write that much. Usually Izzy would bring in a song and then we'd work on it. Except when I brought in two songs and we worked on those".

I'm sure Duff could have been more specific, but he's trying to make the point that he has a better relationship with Scott now than he did with Axl in the later years. ?And as a result, there is more collaboration in the songwriting process. ?Most casual fans are not aware of Izzy's importance in GNR, but that's another story.

[Ignatius]

http://vr.belowempty.com/lyrics.php

This says who did what..I'm? sure when vr where hanging around trying to find a singer they did most of the instrmuntals and even wrote songs with say izzy, but being scott is their lead singer there's no doubts he wrote lyrics he wanted to sing.. He's not just some replacement playing whatever the band handed him ,his input was important because he has to believe in teh work being he will be performing the songs and having to show emotion...

SOng wriitng was a group thing with gnr, and vr, just scott is visable more..

From what I've gathered from the info on that link, not much is mentioned other than how Matt, slash and Duff wrote every single note on that album. It doesn't specify whether Scott was around or not during songwriting. Actually, one could interpretate Scott wasn't around most of the time because he is harldy mentioned as a part of the songwriting process. There's a few " We gave it to Scott" "We gave it to him/he uesd pro tools..." but it still arguable whether he was there or not.

I haven't seen the documentary "Set Me free", can't comment on that.

On a side note, What's the story with the Contraban poems? I'd be interested in hearing those.

[Booker Floyd]

From what I've gathered from the info on that link, not much is mentioned other than how Matt, slash and Duff wrote every single note on that album. It doesn't specify whether Scott was around or not during songwriting. Actually, one could interpretate Scott wasn't around most of the time because he is harldy mentioned as a part of the songwriting process. There's a few " We gave it to Scott" "We gave it to him/he uesd pro tools..." but it still arguable whether he was there or not.

Well then Duffs comment in this thread is a clarifying one...

I assume Duffs comment also applies to their current songwriting for the next album.

I haven't seen the documentary "Set Me free", can't comment on that.

I meant VH1 documentary, which showed the band working on "Set Me Free."?

"Its an open canvas" - Slash, to Scott on that first day

On a side note, What's the story with the Contraban poems? I'd be interested in hearing those.

Not sure what the exact story is, but theyre poems written by Scott and accompanied by minimal keyboards and percussion ("My Thoughts..." has got some guitar).? They were used as decoys on file-sharing programs around the release of Contraband.? Im guessing Doug Grean had something to do with the music, and perhaps parts of these poems were going to be used on Scotts solo album...Not sure.

Most of the poems are thematically similar to lyrics on Contraband (In fact, some of the poems lines can be found scrawled in the albums booklet).? They also seem vaguely political.

"You Push My Buttons"/"You Got No Right"
"My Thoughts Are All Diseased"/"Headspace"
"If I Were A Woman"/"Superhuman"
"You Give Me Mixed Messages"/"Slither"
"Money Owns Money"/"Big Machine"
"On A Cold Winters Night"/"Sucker Train Blues" (?)

"On A Cold Winters Night" is my favorite...very relaxing.


?

[mikegiuliana]

http://vr.belowempty.com/lyrics.php

This says who did what..I'm? sure when vr where hanging around trying to find a singer they did most of the instrmuntals and even wrote songs with say izzy, but being scott is their lead singer there's no doubts he wrote lyrics he wanted to sing.. He's not just some replacement playing whatever the band handed him ,his input was important because he has to believe in teh work being he will be performing the songs and having to show emotion...

SOng wriitng was a group thing with gnr, and vr, just scott is visable more..

From what I've gathered from the info on that link, not much is mentioned other than how Matt, slash and Duff wrote every single note on that album. It doesn't specify whether Scott was around or not during songwriting. Actually, one could interpretate Scott wasn't around most of the time because he is harldy mentioned as a part of the songwriting process. There's a few " We gave it to Scott" "We gave it to him/he uesd pro tools..." but it still arguable whether he was there or not.

I haven't seen the documentary "Set Me free", can't comment on that.

On a side note, What's the story with the Contraban poems? I'd be interested in hearing those.

I posted the link because he seems to get the credit for the lyrics, and the band had the credit for the instruments.. At least it seemed like he was involved in every song according to that..

The first album I'm sure they were together for most of the songs, now with the second I would imagine song writing is happening wherever they are staying(bus, hotels, etc) being they've been touring ever since cd came out.
As for the poems I never even payed any mind to them..

[gnrvrrule]

I may have mentioned this before, but it seems that Duff defends Axl pretty well.  He rarely takes cheap shots at him; in fact, he many times has said "he has a lot of love for him" and "we went through a lot together."  Plus, even Axl in that 1990 interview said that a lot of communication, etc., is done over the phone, and other band members have said he wasn't around much.  The point is that it seems that Axl wrote a lot of songs by himself and then sand to the music already created, and that Scott was with the band a lot more in the songwriting, which seems pretty reasonable and is not really bashing Axl, but telling the truth.

[tomass74]

whereas in VR all 5 sit in a room together and create at? the same time

For "Contraband", they had many of the songs written before Scott even joined.....


I don't know what Duff is talking about. It seems like the story has changed from "one of us gets an idea and then it gets worked on by the rest of the band" into "Axl never wrote that much".




/jarmo

They had the music for 5 songs that was done before Scott was involved that they used. He helped them arrange those. The rest of the album was written collectively as a band....