If Contraband was out in '94

[Intercourse]

OK so having lread all the stories etc, we can safely say that the material on Snakepit was rejected Guns material that Slash wrote. Fair enough, I agree with Axl, Slash had taken that 'cowboy style' rock as far as he could have on UYI 1 & 2 and it was time to branch out a bit. (Although I'd love to hear a mix of Slashs blues and Axls weird ideas meshed, it could have been SATANIC!!!).

Anyway, I digress my question is:
If Slash and the guys had written Contraband in 1994 and given it to Axl, do you think he'd have gone for it? I think if they had released Contraband with AXl singing his own vocal lines it would it have floored critics. As an album musically its as good as Soundgardens 'Superunknown' and Alice In Chains' 'Dirt' and STPs 'Core'...all massive sellers. Plus the sounds and arrangements would have been very modern for its time. Could it have amazed critics & fans  for its return to hard edged rock but with a modern and unexpected change in sound for the gunners?

Maybe even Axl would have got props from Cobain, which I think, in spite of himself, he would have loved.
Peace,
Intercourse.

[Kahz]

I want to kill myself after reading this post.

[Intercourse]

don't hold yourself back on my account

[mikegiuliana]

Contraband would have fit nicely in 1994, everyone wanated something new plus the era changed towards grunge, it would have been a solid rock album soemthing more towards the roots of gnr.. It would have been a pleasant change from the overblown stuff they had been doing for the past previous few years..

What a way to go, the band l;eft with a Since I don't have you video.. People say axl's into perfection ,so why do a video and support such a garbage song?

Anyone can be like they needed to advance or evolve or whateevr other excuse you have but bottom line is in the 90's baisc ballads and hard rockers are what took the country by stoprm and a return towards gnr's old days would have beengreat.. If big ballads and things of that nature like nr or estranged were done again in a 94 album it wouldn't have done so well, that time passed.. The over the top typical rockstar had died..

[younggunner]

The over the top typical rockstar had died..

All the cool peopel make fun of the over the top rockstar...but you know what where is that over the top rockstar now? where is ROCK now? Its lost. Its gone formt he mainstream.

Axl and the over the top rock stars might have their faults but you know what, they are lightning rods. They get people talking. Thats the greatness of Axl. He was over the top yet he was real. Yea he got carried away but why was that a bad thing? Because the cool peopel said so. Fuk that. The cool peopel couldnt carry rock into the new millenium. Rock n roll died a decade ago.

I want that over the top craziness again. GNR were dangerous they werent planned. Now all we get is garbage. Its ridonkulous. Ill take the typical over the top rockstar anyday of the week over a whining lil  biatch who has no charisma or creativity.

[oneway23]

As an album musically its as good as Soundgardens 'Superunknown' and Alice In Chains' 'Dirt' and STPs 'Core'...

You just listed 3 of the greatest rock records of the last quarter-century....As far as mainstream, major label rock bands go, the musical complexity on certain tracks of Superunknown is outrageous.  That enough makes me question your argument when comparing albums...10+ years later, these 3 albums are still fresh, invigorating listens....6 months after the release of CB, it's a landing base for spiderwebs on my shelf...I digress, that's only my opinion, and ultimately not the point...

This is a futile argument, it's just another means of inevitably getting around to the argument of how great Axl's voice might have sounded on the Contraband songs...

[AdZ]

I want to kill myself after reading this post.

Wow thanks, that added to the conversation.
If you have nothing to say that's going to further the thread, keep it to yourself.

[Krispy Kreme]

Back to the question: I think the album would have been great. Real rock n' roll. Axl on Sucker Train Blues would be unbelievable. I think this album with the GNR name would have sold even more than VR has done.

[Intercourse]

Hi OneWay,
I agree with you about Superunknown. I used to be in a band and we covered some of that stuff, it was outrageously difficult to play & sing.
Still, I posted this thread 'cause  I'm just interested in putting the idea across that Slash & the rest of the guns players had it in them to move on stylistically. While in 2004 their sound is not that new sounding, if this baby landed in 1994 I think it would have blwon the doors off the music world and maybe held the band together longer.
Thanks for posting a decent response, it's all I'm asking for.
peace,
Intercourse.

[mikegiuliana]

The over the top typical rockstar had died..

All the cool peopel make fun of the over the top rockstar...but you know what where is that over the top rockstar now? where is ROCK now? Its lost. Its gone formt he mainstream.

Axl and the over the top rock stars might have their faults but you know what, they are lightning rods. They get people talking. Thats the greatness of Axl. He was over the top yet he was real. Yea he got carried away but why was that a bad thing? Because the cool peopel said so. Fuk that. The cool peopel couldnt carry rock into the new millenium. Rock n roll died a decade ago.

I want that over the top craziness again. GNR were dangerous they werent planned. Now all we get is garbage. Its ridonkulous. Ill take the typical over the top rockstar anyday of the week over a whining lil? biatch who has no charisma or creativity.

I agree, I'm simply addressing the 1994 comment, everything runs in cycles, the freddie mercurys, axl roses,  diamond dave types were great, just it was excess by the time grunge started and people wanted a change..

I always loved gnr because they were dangerous, and the fact they weren't planned (something that worries me now)

I like scott because he's not your typical frontman of today, people knock the darkness alot, regardless they tries domething from a past era and had soem of their own style not just going with rap rock, or emo..

I just love bands that rock out and have that attitude n edge that's not the same as everyone else..

[ppbebe]

Still I know how kahz feels.

Fads come and go. Wheels of fortune keep turning. And apparently over the top craziness are in again now. Yeah,Contra might be dead on for this revival trend. In other words perhaps they are not for 1994.

Nevertheless, I hope new GNR will not be subject to changes in fashion. I don?t know about dangerous bit that might be a catchword. I feel their music being in earnest and I hate ppl try to diss others sincerity. Cold-heartedness is another thing than being cool. Life is joke but life is real, life is earnest.

[oneway23]

Intercourse, I think I should clarify my previous post a bit....

I have to say that musical complexity does not equal great music for me...There are an inumerable number of bands that I listen to that have defined the attitude of rock n' roll with 3 or 4 chords, so I guess I was speaking out of frustration with regard to VR...It's just been in the forefront of my mind since I first heard the album that some of the stuff is a bit too "uninspired" for me...It's a label-friendly, safe, rock record, with a glossy sheen of a production job...for some bands or albums, it doesn't bother me so much, so long as the production matches the intention(UYI is a great example, Dark Side and the Wall are others).   It seemed to me that for all the hyperbole coming from the VR camp about the attitude and "on the edge" aspect of the record, when I actually heard it, I felt a huge letdown.  In many ways, the record reminds me of Jane's Addiction's last record, both in terms of how the production comes across and in how uncharacteristically concise the songs were...I'm ecstatic that VR has had collective success, and that the individual members have found success in rejuvinating their career, but personally, as a fan,  I'm often left wondering why the public has embraced VR wholheartedly, while both the critics and the public seem to have a longer memory when it came to Jane's effort;  those memories only served to make Strays look like a transparent stab at commercial success....Sorry for the length, I really need a job....

[WARose]

I agree with Younggunner.
I think it would`ve been interesting to hear Axl on CB, but not that great.
GN`R is not grunge, so it would`ve sucked in my opinion

[Intercourse]

Oneway,
 Excellent response.  I should also clarify that complexity doesn't necessarily equal good for me either, but SG could be so complex yet rock out to hell which I thought was amazing. Their soungs sounded normal in many cases until you tried to learn them (tempo, cadence etc).
I agree with how you feel about many aspects of Contraband, I would have put the guys through a lot more hoops myself if I was their producer. I am happy though that Slash is working in a unit where, in future,  he may be pushed a bit because he has the chops to excel in any situation or with any musical style that requires guitar on it.

I had a similar gripe (you may have read in threads) regarding the actual quality of 'The Blues' as a song. I felt very let down that this kind of stuff was still on Axls radar since it seemd overblown and  dated  to me and I'd hoped for better.

Because  so much music came our way from '91-96 that actually had serious quality in it  I think many of us have  subsequently used that renaissance period as a bench mark against all proceeding rock releases. The fact ofthe matter is there is a whole new generation of kids out there who missed all of that and this is their first bite of the rock cherry.
For as many journos and fans that love it there are the unmoved and disappointed among us. I am on the fence since I love some of Contraband and skip right past other parts. I think too, that VR get some leeway because they are 'new'. If the second album is not a major jump upwards in quality, style and delivery I think they will flounder.

I just hope that we don't end up being disappointed with both parties when all is said and done.
Cheers,
Intercourse

[jimmythegent]

Intercourse, I think I should clarify my previous post a bit....

I have to say that musical complexity does not equal great music for me...There are an inumerable number of bands that I listen to that have defined the attitude of rock n' roll with 3 or 4 chords, so I guess I was speaking out of frustration with regard to VR...It's just been in the forefront of my mind since I first heard the album that some of the stuff is a bit too "uninspired" for me...It's a label-friendly, safe, rock record, with a glossy sheen of a production job...for some bands or albums, it doesn't bother me so much, so long as the production matches the intention(UYI is a great example, Dark Side and the Wall are others).? ?It seemed to me that for all the hyperbole coming from the VR camp about the attitude and "on the edge" aspect of the record, when I actually heard it, I felt a huge letdown.? In many ways, the record reminds me of Jane's Addiction's last record, both in terms of how the production comes across and in how uncharacteristically concise the songs were...I'm ecstatic that VR has had collective success, and that the individual members have found success in rejuvinating their career, but personally, as a fan,? I'm often left wondering why the public has embraced VR wholheartedly, while both the critics and the public seem to have a longer memory when it came to Jane's effort;? those memories only served to make Strays look like a transparent stab at commercial success....Sorry for the length, I really need a job....

Wow, I have to say I agree totally. I had the very same thoughts regarding Contraband and Strays(Janes') last album. Initially I thought they were good but the appeal wore off rather quickly - overprduced and 'safe'. Thats not to say that I don't think they're good albums, i just don't think they'll stand the test of time. Superunknown however is peerless and IMO the rock album of the '90s

[younggunner]

and the fact they weren't planned (something that worries me now)

How are gnr planned now? Im not saying they are a dangerous band like old gnr. But do you kno what GNr are going to do next? The spirit and attitude of old gnr still remains with the new band in respect to the unpredicable aspect of it all. We have no clue what GNR will do. They have been erratic. They are not going to bahs up the TRL studio but they still will do whatver the hell they want in regards to their music.

other than that i agree about the missing rockstar

[mikegiuliana]

I don't know what to make of them, I enjoyed the covers they played and some of the new songs..  As for erratic I guess they are, or maybe axl is, or buckethead was..

Don't argue with me about this, but to me being planned is being in the studio for years, just going with it to me is getting together with the group, getting the stuff done in someone's garage or studio and throwing out an album in a decent amount of time..

The idea of taking years nyears and tweaking to me seems like something planed, like overdone, not letting one note be out of key, or possibly the orchestra being perfect.. Guys sworn to secracy and things like that.. It has a fake aspect to it, instead of just rocking out and releasing what you did together, not like this one was gone and that one made changes and  so many people outside the project had their hands on it..

Ok bad example but you may get my point, take american chopper on discovery with paul sr &jr, and then take jessie james of West coast choppers.. Both make great bikes, but both do it different.. Eveything on the bike is done by jessie, but with Paul sr & jr they have someone work on the gas tank, someone on the frame, someone on the carborator.. It becomes a project outisde of the group..

It's like it's a gnr record but how many people have had their hands on it outside of the group..??
I mean guest vocals or playing is one thing... I just feel the album (from the info we have) is more factory done then crafted by some guys in a band..

[Wheres Izzy]

Contraband has much more of a grunge sound to it than anything GnR ever did. And it's not just because of Scott. If they had released the same songs in 94' the press would have gone after them pretty hard with comments about selling out to try to sound more relevant after that whole scene busted out.
Besides that I don't think the songs sound like stuff Axl would really want to sing, much more suited for Weiland.

[younggunner]

Don't argue with me about this, but to me being planned is being in the studio for years

So then you are saying old gnr was planned as well.

The idea of taking years nyears and tweaking to me seems like something planed, like overdone, not letting one note be out of key, or possibly the orchestra being perfect.. Guys sworn to secracy and things like that.. It has a fake aspect to it, instead of just rocking out and releasing what you did together, not like this one was gone and that one made changes and ?so many people outside the project had their hands on it..

Even though the execution of making the music is "planned" that doesnt mean the music will be predicatble and fake. ?Axl has a vision of what gnr should be. He and the band will deliver a focused well thought out album....how that translates we shall see....

Who said GNR arent going to release the material and then rock out?

I just feel the album (from the info we have) is more factory done then crafted by some guys in a band..

Just because Axl has taken his time with the album doesnt mean it will be predicatble or planned. i guarentee you the least thing we have to worry about regarding cd is the integrity and purity of the album. The lyrics and music will be something from the heart not just stuff to fit with the trends etc.

Im not saying GNR is a "dangerous" band in regards to how they were back in the day. But music wise, in my mind they still are. The music will be unpredicatble, nothing held back all or nothing type thing. Axl is as erratic as they come. Thats how he is. Its not a front. There will always be a mystery and sense of urgency/danger around gnr.

[Continental Drift]

The fact of the matter is that Guns N' Roses is one of those bands like The Beattles, Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, etc. that people expect each and every one of their albums to be "landmark" and "history making". A GN'R version of Contraband, though likely a very solid album, would have been none of those things- especially in '94 when they would have been up against far superior albums of a similar type from bands like Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, STP, etc. People didn't want a grunge influenced album from GN'R.... they wanted a hard rock counter-attack to the grunge and punk revolutions that would have laid the groundwork for a healthy music rivalry between decadent hard rock and grunge/punk throughout the decade.? Unfortunately, GN'R was in no condition, personally or professionally, to meet that challenge by the time the UYI tour wound down.