Chinese Democracy will be bigger than Appetite and lead to a music revolution

[Lesty]

I doubt they will.
I think CD will be a great album if it ever gets released, but very, very few bands ever
put out a groundbreaking album later in their career.
Most bands have their "masterpiece" or best work released early in their career when
they're peaking creatively and hungry for success.
Without the original lineup, it would be nearly impossible to top AFD, but Axl has worked hard enough and surrounded himself with good musicians, so I expect CD to be extremely good,
just not "legendary" as many assume it will be.

[grendood]

I think its funny that you think an album can't be better than AFD yet didn't people say the same thing in the days before AFD came about about lets say some Led Zeppelin or Pink Floyd albums for example?

you cant compare pink floyd and guns n roses... in terms of album releases they are totally different.


Pink floyd released countless avant garde records before creating their masterpieces.

gnr created their masterpiece first.

[grendood]

I doubt they will.
I think CD will be a great album if it ever gets released, but very, very few bands ever
put out a groundbreaking album later in their career.
Most bands have their "masterpiece" or best work released early in their career when
they're peaking creatively and hungry for success.
Without the original lineup, it would be nearly impossible to top AFD, but Axl has worked hard enough and surrounded himself with good musicians, so I expect CD to be extremely good,
just not "legendary" as many assume it will be.

spot on, however the endless hope and hype of chinese democracy will make at least 2-3 million people dissapointed.

[Pandora]

Once again, NO NEED TO CREATE A NEW THREAD ABOUT THE SAME THING. Couldn't you add your comments to the existing thread?

- Merged -

[norway]

Comparing cd to afd is nuts, afd was released in the 80's
-can u tell if it was more important than elvis's breakthrough album?

Both are important an unique


every decade there will be a musicpiece that goes into the history as very important

I hope cd will go into the history books along with the other big ones

There's nothing that can deny that possibllity
Those who wan'ts to replace cd with afd or that cd shall top afd in their hearts to be a succses,,, don't get them

afd has no alternates, maybe the same thing with the upcoming cd, we'll see

[mikegiuliana]

blues does nothing for me, I get the been there done that feeling but only weaker

how come i dont see these comments? from you when I hear you talk about Contraband?

Do I have to explain?? Well of course I have to, gnr is in a topic of toping afd or being as good with cd, so I said the song does nothing for me and it isn't as good as estranged or nr...
If this was contraband adn I was comparing three songs one would be the weakest and do teh l;east for me.. Just because I think the blues is a tired third type recycled gnr from the past has what to do with contraband.. ?

Contraband is from a group outside of gnr now, we are comparing songs from gnr's past..

You don't have to like my opinion, I just feel the blues is a third rate nr or estranged, it's boring piano ballad rock.. Maybe it fits along with motley crue's home sweet home or something, it just seems like axl's been there doen that  in regards to gnr and it's weaker then his previous piano ballads..

I keep hearing revolution and taking over the world and I'm saying not with the type of songs I've heard so far.. Axl's done ten times better before, all the new tunes rank in the lower part of gnr's catalog in my eyes..

Now that doesn't mean he doesn't have songs ten times better but I am just going on the songs I heard

With the blues it's like he tried to take a massive collective gnr shit and out came a raison in regards to a musical comparison with his two other epic ballads..

Maybe it's because they are live songs and it's not the same as the radio when the product is finished..  It dosn't have the hook for me that catches my attention the way say slither does for me..
I hear the blues and feel oh elton's back on the piano again trying to make some masterpiece.

[younggunner]

Contraband is from a group outside of gnr now, we are comparing songs from gnr's past..

So what you are saying is  if GNr had a different name, you wouldnt be making those comparisons?

You don't have to like my opinion, I just feel the blues is a third rate nr or estranged, it's boring piano ballad rock.. Maybe it fits along with motley crue's home sweet home or something, it just seems like axl's been there doen that  in regards to gnr and it's weaker then his previous piano ballads..

Your entitled to your opinion. But its funny how you quickly dismiss material from one band and it doesnt come up when another band does something. The point im getting at is that it seems like people liek you will always complain about whatver new gnr does....

Why are you comparing The Blues to NR or Estranged? Is The Blues an 9min+ epic? IS it supposed to be Axls new masterpiece?
If you wanna compare it to a song liek DOnt cry by all means knock it down from that level....but to compare it to a song like NR and Estranged is ridonkulous...

it just seems like axl's been there doen that  in regards to gnr and it's weaker then his previous piano ballads..

So being that Axl has done piano ballads in the past he can no longer do a piano ballad because he would just be doing the same thing over and over agian?

I keep hearing revolution and taking over the world and I'm saying not with the type of songs I've heard so far..

you hear that from the fans...

With the blues it's like he tried to take a massive collective gnr shit and out came a raison in regards to a musical comparison with his two other epic ballads..

or maybe he decided to play a new song for the fans just to bridge the gap until the album is out.


GNr will never achieve world domination liek old grn did. Whether CD is great or not. Its impossible for a rock band at achieve that kind of staus in the music industry. GNR and Nirvana were the last to do so. Its a completely different world and musical landscape. Too many factors come into play....

With that being said, that doesnt mean gnr cant put out a great album. If you want to define the albums success on where the band will stand in comparison to old gnr, you are going to win that argument. But if the album is great and the rock fans eat it up and its a respected album by fellow muscians then in my eyes GNr will be a success.

You will always find a reason not to liek the new material or give the material a chance. I guess its hard to argue about this because its music and its not like sports wher eyou have facts etc. BUt it just seems as if the main reason why the new stuff and the new band will never meet your criteria is because there is no slash and duff.
The new material will always fall short of groundbreaking, new, we waited for this?, etc. NAd im not proclaiming that it will be any of those things. But I know I will be fair and honest when Im reviewing CD. If its great Ill be the first one to tell you and if it blows Ill also be the first to tell you.

[Intercourse]

Howdy Younggunner,
First I want to say that I've been reading your mails for a long time now and you're an excellent contributor! Well done fellow gunner!!

 However, I think your comment here
"Your entitled to your opinion. But its funny how you quickly dismiss material from one band and it doesnt come up when another band does something. The point im getting at is that it seems like people liek you will always complain about whatver new gnr does...."

I think is unfair. Go back through this thread, nobody is try the old VR Vs nu-GNR thing here and scant mention has been made about the old/new GNR members either. The coparisons I made that people responded to were to The Blues vs. NR and Silkworms vs. similar material by The Prodigy mainly.  This thread is Axl-centric in that I feel that this 'musical revolution' thing is just OTT going on the material we've been given.

I asked for cold, hard analysis of The Blues against similar works by Axl, particularly NV. I just think after 10 years of trying this song is just not in the same league as his older work and I find The other offerings to be lacking too. I also said the same of the VR guys so its not a 'VR vs GNR' or a 'lets bag on the new guys' thread.

VR get some leeway in public because the preception is that they are a 'new' band. People mention that its a great start for such a young band. This will put pressure on them becaue their next album doesn't raise the bar significantly (because they've matured)  they'll be in choppy seas.

Axl on the other hand has held the GnR name so the world thinks this man has been slavishly writing his comeback album for 10 years. My point is that after 10 years this is a song that would have made the lower end of UYII in its day. It sounds dated, and has many fans here unimpressed. That is not good after 10 years.

So to summarise:

1. 'The Blues' struggles when put beside similar mid tempo Axl creations like NV, Estranged and even Breakdown.
2. 'Silkworms' as an electronica song fails to stand up beside its 'peers' like work from NIN, The Chemical Brothers, The Prodigy and Crystal Meth.
3.  'ChinDem' as a song seems to lack a hook after the opening verse ends.
4. 'Oh My God' disappeared form public view despite a place on a film and a rare one page statement by Axl released to MTV about the songs meaning.

So to finish, CD will be in my pocket and yours, we'll listen to it and love it for sure, I'll be fucking amazed if we don't.
BUT, just to say again, the new material sounds either: old fashioned (Blues)or too much of a stylistic stretch (Silkworms)  or just plain ordinary (Oh My God).
As I said I hope I have to eat a lump of shitty 'sorry pie' when CD see the light of day.
peace,
Intercourse.

[ppbebe]

To be honest i cant help but laugh when people on here think that chinese democracy will dominate the world, it just wont happen (even though id love for it to happen)

Now, because there hasnt been anything from gnr for the past 10 years... A good album simply wont be good enough for people on here, but i have chosen to settle for that, i will enjoy it for what it is.

CD? wont and cannot be innovative as some people might like to think, i mean cmon... it cant be better than albums like Pet Sounds, Revolver, Sgt peppers, Dark Side Of The Moon etc etc.

basically im trying to show that ideas and inspiration of albums from other albums sometimes can work, but with chinese democracy and its aim to be world dominating and ground breaking.. well it simply cannot work.

You laugh first. ?


GNR is unique. So are all the great bands. No need to limit their possibilities, like norway said. When AFD was a masterpiece, coming CD can be the magnum opus. If not then the next one can be. Regardless, I will enjoy it for what it is.

Also you may not know but there are still billions of people who aren?t into AFD in the world and may love CD in place of your 2 millions.

Who decide this music is superior to the other one, to begin with? Music talks directly to you. It reflects your heart. None but you decide if you like this one for yourself.

Moreover, regarding the world domination, what?s the big deal with it? You mean the songs dominating charts of the world are all that good n ground breaking for you?

I?m pretty sure I?ll like it better than AFD= Chinese Democracy will be bigger than AFD for me.

[mikegiuliana]

Yg I don't want to argue, you just asked me directly so I said something.. Everyone doesn't have to like certain songs.. I used nr n estranged because those were to big piano balads gnr has had success with..

As far as the revolution I was definetly talking about fans saying this, it's even in the title that's what I was refering to..If someone says there will be this album that will top them all and has never heard one lick of the album then to say my feelings I have to go by the only material I've heard..

If gnr had a different name then it wouldn't be gnr, I wouldn't use the comparison simply because it's a project in which has nothing to do with gnr, he also would only be a 5fth so to speak of the band that gave us those songs so expecting all that from one guy is a bit much to ask.... If there's a reincarnation of an older group you have to compare the present material with the past, it only makes sence..

As for contraband you can think three or 5 songs suck and that would be your right and you make like others, so far the 5 boots haven't really gotten me like an old guns song, it's as simple as that.. This has nothing to do with the album cd, but this is of the material I have heard.. Everyone seems to say it's teh weaker of the big guns so why can't I just not like the song..?

Maybe I like contraband alot because I wasn't expecting it to be any huge deal in any way, I just expected something of some guys jamming, some basic ballads n hard rockers..

I'm more of a meat n potatos type of person, the side dishes are ok, but not important..

[Neemo]

There can be no comparison to AFD and CD. For Axl to do an album in the style of AFD would be an artistic step backwards in my opinion. Remember people that Axl is doing a follow-up to UYI, so CD, will have to be bigger sounding (Axl has some pretty big shoes to fill there, but and 8-piece band may be able to do the trick ) At the same time though UYI's were almost the albums that killed 80's rock because the music world was taken by storm by grunge a year after they were released.

I personally don't think that CD will be "ground breaking" but it definately will sound (and be) bigger than Appetite. ?I have a feeling, that, as a whole, the album will have an enormous sound (see the orchestra thread) but it won't create a musical revolution because, frankly, there are no rock bands (other than Metallica) that have the ability to create a musical masterpiece in this day and age.

The musical revolution will come when a few young bands rise up from obscurity and create a new 'sound' for rock. (it happened with poison, warrant, G'n'R and tesla in the '80's; Pearl Jam, STP, Nirvana, AIC in the early '90's; Marilyn Manson, Korn, Limp and Tool in the late '90's; and with bands like Sum41, Blink182, Simple plan, (fuckin etc., etc., etc.) nowadays. (God music blows right now!! ), G'n'R is simply too old and out of touch with youth now to be 'cool' for the young crowd and they are the one's buying the records and ,they, in turn drive the market, what they want gets play. and unfortunately I don't think the young'uns will want to hear uncle Axl speak. think about it. I grew up listening to G'n'R do you think my Daughter will think g'n'r is cool. No, because I like it she will probably think it's lame. ?How many people on here think that their parents listen to cool music? I know mine don't.

In summary, I look forward to hearing CD because I want to hear how Axl has evolved from UYI's, but, as a whole I don't think that it'll get much air time, other than on classic rock stations, and as such, will not be a musical revolution as some people want to believe.

[norway]

If there's a reincarnation of an older group you have to compare the present material with the past, it only makes sence..

It's a new band 2 me, axl's voice and music with other musicians, i compare to that
-Not the x-members earlier work or contributions except paul and buckethead

but the name do have a certain space and assotiations in peoples heart, that's for sure

[ppbebe]

The musical revolution will come when a few young bands rise up from obscurity and create a new 'sound' for rock. (it happened with poison, warrant, G'n'R and tesla in the '80's; Pearl Jam, STP, Nirvana, AIC in the early '90's; Marilyn Manson, Korn, Limp and Tool in the late '90's; and with bands like Sum41, Blink182, Simple plan,

Excuse me, but do you call them MUSICAL revolution? Yeah, Beatles, Zep or some pre-mid 70?s bands did create some revolutionary sounds. That was once swept away by punk fashion till GNR brought back the feel of it in the 80?s. That?s my understanding.

[mikegiuliana]

neemo maybe he should give up if he needs to top every album he puts out.. I think he would be lucky to even equal the illusions, that music is amazing and very well rounded.. How many groups put out albums like the illusions later in life or at all?

I personally think axl would have slipt under the radar with a very good album if he did it sooner around when he came back.. I think maddy would have done pretty good. SHame he's become the butt of so many jokes, now everyone has these pre made thoughts about him and this mystery album.

I think all the waiting and hype has made his life harder and some could have been avoided..


I agree about the kids music compared to yours..
I think alot of younger kids will not see the cool guy we did when he was young and raw.. Most older lead singers looked lame to me as a kid, when i saw jagger, tyler, stewart, sir paul, and poeople like that I never thought it was cool..

I sometimes wonder if he feels if it would be better off if the album remaind the biggest masterpiece to never see the light of day, all his fans think he has the best album ever underwraps, maybe it's safer for axl in his fan's minds then in their cd players..

I can't even allow myself to believe that one day I will be holding a copy.. It's like I picture myself with a shotgun and a broken dial for my stereo so no one can bother me..

[younggunner]

I just think after 10 years of trying this song is just not in the same league as his older work and I find The other offerings to be lacking too.

BUt why are you comparing the blues to NR. They arent even the same type os songs. NR is an epic production. The blues is a regular ballad. So why would you compare a song that Axl says will not even be a single to one of GNRs biggest singles. If GNR we would have heard one of the big guns then you would be right and fair in terms of comparing songs between eras.

Axl on the other hand has held the GnR name so the world thinks this man has been slavishly writing his comeback album for 10 years.

but we arent talking about world reception. We do not know yet how the world will react to the new gnr material. We are talking about the fans who undertsand that these are 2 complete and different bands.

My point is that after 10 years this is a song that would have made the lower end of UYII in its day. It sounds dated, and has many fans here unimpressed. That is not good after 10 years.

Many would disagree. BUt again the songs we have heard are not the "comeback" songs. They are fillers/ b sides. They are not even going to be singles!..when we hear the big guns that is when we will know where this band and album stands. What if the new songs, particularly the big 3 are the fillers of the album and they are the "lesser: songs on the album, then what? Ill tell you...we are in for a fukin treat.....if not then all your complaints and points will be valid...

Im not gonna say anything about your opinion of the songs. I strongly disagree but its music and not everyone likes the same stuff. But i will say that I absolutely  LOVE  the new songs. Including silk worms...

I will be the first to tell you that those songs{unless the studios take it up another notch} are not good enough for singles in terms of putting gnr back on the map again. The 3 songs we have heard are like role players. They are the types that help make a team great. Now we are just waiting on the stars of the album. If the big guns are great then the album will be money. If the osngs we have heard are the best then we will have a good album but nothing special.

BUT, just to say again, the new material sounds either: old fashioned (Blues)or too much of a stylistic stretch (Silkworms)  or just plain ordinary (Oh My God).

ok being that gnr havnt done anything right yet...what does a gnr have to sound liek in order for it not to be dated, sound liek old gnr, not be industrail or like prodigy/nin,ordinary or just good?? what will appease you.

I used nr n estranged because those were to big piano balads gnr has had success with..

Ill ask you again....is The Blues a big piano ballad like estranged and nr?

If someone says there will be this album that will top them all and has never heard one lick of the album then to say my feelings I have to go by the only material I've heard..

Maybe its because they enjoy the new songs immensly. If in fact the songs we have heard so far are the "fillers" and not even the singles and the other songs TURN OUT to be masterpieces then the album will be great. That is why peopel are excited. They have a handful of songs that they enjoy and there is SUPPOESED to be more and better ones on the way then that excites people. It has to all turn out but the possibility is there.

If gnr had a different name then it wouldn't be gnr, I wouldn't use the comparison simply because it's a project in which has nothing to do with gnr, he also would only be a 5fth so to speak of the band that gave us those songs so expecting all that from one guy is a bit much to ask...

I think its pretty safe to say that no matter what name Axl went under he would still be compared to old gnr.....

If there's a reincarnation of an older group you have to compare the present material with the past, it only makes sence..

Im not saying you cant compare. All im saying is you cant compare old gnrs hits to new gnrs filler songs or songs that wont even be on the album.

Everyone seems to say it's teh weaker of the big guns so why can't I just not like the song..?

I never said you cant liek the song but im saying you cant compare The Blues to NR. Just like I cant compare Slither WTTJ or PC or somethin like that.

Maybe I like contraband alot because I wasn't expecting it to be any huge deal in any way, I just expected something of some guys jamming, some basic ballads n hard rockers

So you werent expecting anything big from 3 players that were once a major part of the biggest band in the world? Yet you are expecting something huge from the other member who is the sole member based on hype and keeping the name? Interesting

So if Axl went under a different name and still didnt release an album and the mystique and everything is what it is liek today...you wouldnt have high expectations?

If I go how you are going I can say Im expecting jack shut from gnr because they have 1 member of gnr. ANd i should have expected more from vr because they have had 3...i dont wnat this to be a gnr vr thread so fuk it...

I'm more of a meat n potatos type of person, the side dishes are ok, but not important..

Then why are you here busting balls? You know that new gnr are not going to make sleazy rock songs like afd and stuff liek that. You know that Axl wanst to explore and try different things. Things you already know you dont like. Why are you here when you know you aren not going ot get old gnr sound?

What the hell do the new songs have to sound like in order for them not to sound like old gnr,outdated, or trying to be something they are not? Maybe Axl should just can the whole band and not make any music. Its ok for the old guys to keep it simple and just jam but its not ok for axl to explore or do whatevr he wants to do...

All im asking from gnr is that they continue where they left off of the illusions. Whatver that sounds like is what im anticipating. Im not expecting gnr to rewrite music in terms of creatign a new genre.

neemo maybe he should give up if he needs to top every album he puts out..

I know, why try to do something better than what you did last

I personally think axl would have slipt under the radar with a very good album if he did it sooner around when he came back

Thats the problem. Axl doesnt want to just do good enough to get by, impress, or "slip under the radar". He has decided he will put everything he has intop making his last musical contribution. It has taken him approx 5 yrs so far. He and the band have done everything they could to make th ebest dam music possible and thats it. Probably no more gnr after this. Axl wants to go out with a bang. He wants to create something that is better than his previosu work. Why is that wrong? Because its not in your hand yet?

I think maddy would have done pretty good.

now it wont because?

I think alot of younger kids will not see the cool guy we did when he was young and raw

But they would have seen the cool guy if he remained in the spotlight. Axl was never going to stay young and leather wild. He ages too. SO even if old gnr stayed around he would still have aged.

I promise you...if the music is better than whats out there kids will like gnr.

[Naupis]

I think the album will be great but I am just not sure where the airplay on radio or MTV/VH1 is going to come from to make them a world power again. Radio is formatted in a way now where rock is only played on a few select stations, where top 40 dominates radio. Same principle applies to MTV. They will do well in the Modern Rock/Mainstream rock charts, but they will not have a chance to crack top 40 given the landscape of the music world. Things are different now and just having a good album doesn't translate to mass sales and popularity.

[norway]

But the red hot chili peppers, the strokes, darkness, the hives, ana etc are? rockbands and that air on mtv and have radioplay?

[bolton]

I doubt they will.
I think CD will be a great album if it ever gets released, but very, very few bands ever
put out a groundbreaking album later in their career.
Most bands have their "masterpiece" or best work released early in their career when
they're peaking creatively and hungry for success.
Without the original lineup, it would be nearly impossible to top AFD, but Axl has worked hard enough and surrounded himself with good musicians, so I expect CD to be extremely good,
just not "legendary" as many assume it will be.

you're right,but Axl known that,abd tjhis was one of the reasons why gnr didn't excist.
Axl is the man who know what to do!!1

[ppbebe]

However,
This band has the same head but the rest is renewed.
So it?s not really at a later stage.
The chemistry of the Band is fresh n new.
In fact it?s rather early in the career.

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

However,
This band has the same head but the rest is renewed.
So it?s not really at a later stage.
The chemistry of the Band is fresh n new.
In fact it?s rather early in the career.

whoah... very cool way to put that ppbebe?

the *ahem* one-fifth aka Axl Rose has got a new band with new visions and talents to work with

so then he is in a position to "do an Appetite" - not in the sense of the sound!? but, in the sense that they are set up to make something that is different from everything that is out on the scene
the fact that they are not 19 is NOT a disadvantage
most popular music IS created by 19 year olds - that is true
but what these experienced human beings with seasoned talent are capable of creating...
due to their life's experiences they have to draw on and having put things in perspective AND
after stheir many years of playing their instruments without achieving the kind of success the individual members of GN'R achieved...
and to be still perservering with their musical careers
these guys aren't at a point where "oh we've made it" and become comfortable and settled in and decided their done
- even tommy in his success with the Replacements was not satisfied or fullfilled - career wise or financially set (that is my impression)  EDITED
its like he is only getting started!
these guys are hungry and fresh and their chemistry has been growing together over the few years as they have joined this venture one by one
they started out as a band the way A LOT of bands start out - with different members being tried out and playing mostly cover songs - hehe? (and why do bands do this - for one and the same reason - to please and entertain their audience)
the cool thing is they had the original founding member of the band they were covering fronting them?
and they've went through their one-off gigis just like gnr did back in the day
and they've had their cancelled gigs and riots and their own "hell tour" if you will
they have been through shit that many new bands - like GN'R back in day - go through

Axl with the new members is /has been preparing a retrn of Guns N' Roses because he never wanted it to die....
even in 1992 when he and slash and duff were making their partnership agreement -
he included terms that would ensure that Guns N' Roses would die if only if HE died....
he meant to keep GN'R alive so long as their is breath in him
he did not and could not entrust that to anyone else
and he has been nurturing this, his baby - GN'R - for years to see it re-born and to see it live and breath and fullfill all that he knows that it is capable of doing

well... I'm kinda off topic - so i'll get back/to my point

like ppbebe said - GN'R are in a position to do what any 'new band' on the scene has the opportunity to do
offer something fresh
something different
something that will be emulated and appreciated for years to come
and in many ways they are in one of the better positons than I can imagine any other new band could be in to do just that