Chinese Democracy will be bigger than Appetite and lead to a music revolution

[Intercourse]

n response to:
"What?? Whats with all the technical shit? Hooks and Craft??"
Look man I'm not trying to be a wise ass but the crafting of songs is done on EVERYTHING you listen to on albums. There would be no need for producers if there was no need for craft, that's what they do, they help the artist get the best from their song. Their second job is to ensure the song has a hook: a hook does exactly what it says, it hooks the listener and keeps them coming back to the song again and again. Without both of these essential ingedients you don'talways get good songs. True, some amazing tunes have been written in minutes but the final product we, Joe Public hears can often be a million miles away from the original idea.
I don't think I am too detailed in my view of GnR, millions of music fans do this. The released GnR tunes are LOADED with hooks and craft,  think of all the lines you love AXl singing that stay in your head. I don't hear them in the new stuff.
If you think that those two words are not used by Axl almost everyday of his recording life you'd be foolish. You are not allowed get away from them with a good producer and rightly so...this is why I worry that so many producers got shown the door...
And yes, I LOVE this band, its why I care...and listen so deeply.
Intercourse.

[norway]

love this band too, but if they're goal is to acheive popularity rather than doing the music they are intrested in creating...

-then we would be fucked

[Intercourse]

If you think that Axl Rose is writing music that he thinks won't be popular you're MAD.
You can be true to yourself as a musician and write songs with global appeal, I don't know why some  fans always feel that bands would believe its bad to write songs to please fans, they don't!!!

Here's a simple analagy; when you're buying a gift for someone at Christmas, you try to buy something THEY will like that still says something about YOU. Popular music is something similar, you write your songs that have your style and your mark and hope that the fans see your vision and go with it.  NO artist wants to be unpopular or alienate their fans, it often takes years and huge amounts of work to earn those fans so you loathe to loose them, particularly because  they pay the bills!!!

Axl wouldn't even play clubs when the band were at their peak, it always had to be 'bigger than everyone else' for Axl. Axl doesn't want to be a club artist who ditched his main fanbase, he wants to be the biggest in the world again, with MILLIONS of fans. He's not a cult artist and all of those artsists he admires (Elton John, Queen etc) were not either.

What you may have here is a man who thought that he was good enough to turn his hand to whatever musical style he pleased and write monster hits with ease.  Maybe he's realised that its just not that easy. There is more to this huge gap in productivity than 'taking his time', this is about Axl delivering the goods and back to what I was saying, the 'goods' we got are lightweight compared to his early works.

[norway]

If you think that Axl Rose is writing music that he thinks won't be popular you're MAD.

not saying that at all

[Intercourse]

they would have been creating with popularity in mind..that's my point.

[killingvector]

AFD was raw and inviting, perpetual lightning in a bottle: the right music at the right time. That being said, there is no chance that CD will approach what Appetite did, in respect or sales. It can, however, be a very good album that restores the GnR name which has been tarnished in reputation following the departure of Slash and the 2002 meltdown. Axl needs to win over alot of people for this to work, he's already a few paces behind in the race, but with the spoils to follow his considerable effort, he can win this.

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

okay... this - from someone who we can believe actually heard the music:

"Song after song combines the edgy hard rock force and pop smarts of vintage Guns N Roses with surprisingly modern and ambitious music textures"

Don't worry people...
Axl knows what he's doing and shit! give the rest of the band some credit also
What we've heard from Tommy, in my opinion, is an indication of what he thinks is good music
and I really like VGH a lot.  Axl + Tommy = 2 great songwriters on CD 

[mikegiuliana]

WHat is the advanced material for gnr fans and the use of computers in music??

[One in a million]

Can Guns n' Roses release Chinese Democracy and go on tour without a 3rd guitarist?

I mean those tracks on CD where Buckethead is doing most of the lead guitar, will they still be on CD? Have CD's tracklist been changed since Bucketheads departure?

Let's say they got around 30-35 songs that're choosing from to end up on CD. I would definately not choose to release "Buckethead songs" until I've found a replacement to re-record his parts. I mean go on tour with 2 guitarists when the songs requires 3..

And also Buckethead was a big part of the new GNR, he was a big "attraction" himself. He was a big part of what got people interested/curios in GNR again . He brought back some of the mystery, besides just being an awsome guitarplayer.

[mr self destruct]

The Blues - where is the hook? Is it a line? A guitar run? A piano sounds..please show me.

There's some lines which I think are hooks...

"All the love in the world couldn't save you
All the innocence inside
You know I tried so hard to make you
Ooooh, to make you change your mind

And it hurts too much to see you
And how you left yourself behind
You know I wouldn't wanna be you
Ooh, now there's a hell I can't describe

So now I wonder through my haze
And try to find my ways
To the feelings that I've felt
I saved for you and no one else
And though as long as this road seems
I know its called the street of dreams
But thats not stardust on my feet
It leaves a taste that's bittersweet
that's called the blues

I don't know just what I should do
Everywhere I go, I see you
You know it's what we planned this much is true
What I thought was beautiful don't live inside of you, anymore


I don't know just what I should do
Everywhere I go, I see you
You know it's what we planned, this much is true
What I thought was beautiful don't live inside of you, anymore


What this means to me is more than I know you believe
What I've found is you now has cost more than it should for me
What I thought was true before, the lies I couldn't see
What I thought was beautiful is all in memories"

Oh yeah and those guitar solos, I think they're kind of hooky too.
And piano stuff, well it's just... hooky.? ?
Enough for you?

[Intercourse]

not really mate nah...

[SADIS]

The Blues is one HUGE hook. I mean, this song has definitely got "it". ?The part "So now I wonder ......" and the "Aah ah aha...." part are also defintely hooks. I can't get them out of my head for days if I hear them again.

The Blues is one of the best songs I've heard in years. But it's not a radio hit, but what is these days? The crap Brustina Timspeariluira releases? All the gangsta shit? I don't care for radio hits and I do hope they don't have any "hits", because having a hit these days means you made a total crap song.

[Intercourse]

Hi SADIS,
That's the great thing about music and this board, we can all differ in opinions, expectations etc. and that's cool.
Personally, the first time I hear November Rain, the hairs stood up on the back of my neck but when I heard the piano intro to The Blues it just seemed tacky to me, too sweet and nursery rhyme like...if you get my drift. It also reminded me of 'Don't Let The Sun Go Down On Me' by Elton John and George Michael which I'd rather not think about.
That said, I LOVE the guitar solo in it, I reckon Brian May from Queen may have written it, it's got his style all over it. I couls hear the stduio version and be happy to shut up and retract,  here's hoping huh.

[mikegiuliana]

blues does nothing for me, I get the been there done that feeling but only weaker then what I've heard ie nr estranged.. I know this is against popular demand but I wish axl drifted away from the piano..

[Furious Styles]

I haven't read all the replys so I apologize if I reiterate what has already been said, because I'm sure it has.

I don't think Chinese Democracy will have the same impact of Appetite For Destruction for a few reasons. When Gn'R first released the album, there were no expectations, no hype, there was no preconceived notion of the band other than what had been said of their live act and their lifestyles. The general sound and music of Appetite came out a time when that specific music genre was pretty much the talk of the town as far as metal/glam rock, it was the most popular I suppose. I think music historians have now basically stated it wasn't Nirvana or Grunge that killed glam rock/pop metal but it was AFD that killed it and bridged the gap between the metal of the 80's and grunge of the 90's. So historically, it is a pretty relevant and important album.

The musical landscape has changed immensly since 1987.

This is my personal belief that there isn't really one genre of music that holds the cards for a long period of time, especially in the new millenium. We have seen that as time progresses (80's rock, 90's grunge, mid 90's rap, late 90's pop music) that the time one specific genre outshines all others becomes shorter and shorter. There are always fluctuations and society in general is pretty trendy and have short attention spans. Couple this along with the fact that music pirating and illegal downloading is a predominant matter in the music industry today. So I mean there are already a few aspects that Axl has somewhat against him.

Which leads me to my next point. Axl doesn't have the luxury of a clean slate. He has baggage with him. People associate certain feelings with the name Axl Rose and Guns N' Roses. Good or bad. So I mean its that much harder for Axl to please people or get an unbiased opinion of his music. Like Lars said, a band can release the best fuckin' album ever, but if that band is established, people will have a preconcieved notion of what the band should sound like. So I believe that Chinese Democracy has the potential to be one of the top 5 albums of 2005, but only time will tell if the relevance of the album will be great.

Not even in 1987 could anyone tell you that AFD or Gn'R would have such an impact in the history of music. But they did, so I won't judge the relevance of Chinese Democracy, only time can.
 

[mikegiuliana]

^ nicely put

Besides everything I believe age will come into play, revolutions don't occur when someone is going to be 43.. Kids make bands big album sales wise, I can't picture tons of teen screaming for gnr now as they did in 87..

The whole style attitude and idea of what gnr was isn't the same as it is now.,.

Lets face it even if gnr released afd for the first time now it wouldn't do as well.. Guitar rock was huge in the 80's.. It won't be the original fan base buying all the albums it will be kids from your hs..

When I was a teen seeing rod stewart and jagger, tyler,  and people of that age I thought it was more lame then something cool.. WHo knows though, you need an album before anything..

[younggunner]

blues does nothing for me, I get the been there done that feeling but only weaker

how come i dont see these comments  from you when I hear you talk about Contraband?

[grendood]

To be honest i cant help but laugh when people on here think that chinese democracy will dominate the world, it just wont happen (even though id love for it to happen)

appetite for destruction is a flawless rock n roll album which cannot be touched, an other worldly album in its time, and after reading that thread about orchestra merging with gnr to create a revolution, no disresepect to the poster but i found myself laughing out loud, only an ignorant music fan would post something like that, Bands like Rush have created far more complex songs with arrangements beyond its time and have failed quite miserably. Pink Floyd the most talented band in the history of music in my opinion and the sonic masterpiece creation dark side of the moon is as good as an album can get in terms of revolutionary.

Chinese democracy cannot be something new to music, it can only be a good album at most.

Look at Noel Gallagher from Oasis will he ever write albums as good as Definitely Maybe and Whats the story morning glory? No he wont... because those albums are too good, but will Oasis continue making good albums? yes ofcourse they will.

Now, because there hasnt been anything from gnr for the past 10 years... A good album simply wont be good enough for people on here, but i have chosen to settle for that, i will enjoy it for what it is.

CD? wont and cannot be innovative as some people might like to think, i mean cmon... it cant be better than albums like Pet Sounds, Revolver, Sgt peppers, Dark Side Of The Moon etc etc.

but guess what? all this doesnt matter because gnr got AFD, one of the best rock n roll albums ever.?

and what about UYI well sadly the same cannot be said, when i listen to it it feels very outdated and cheesy.

again Axl's admiration for Pink Floyd's The Wall let him down on this album much like The smashing Pumpkins Mellon collie and the infinite sadness, which was also inspired by the wall.

basically im trying to show that ideas and inspiration of albums from other albums sometimes can work, but with chinese democracy and its aim to be world dominating and ground breaking.. well it simply cannot work.

[bolton]

Yes,you know

[CAZ]

I think its funny that you think an album can't be better than AFD yet didn't people say the same thing in the days before AFD came about about lets say some Led Zeppelin or Pink Floyd albums for example?