Whining about Tommy touring

[mikegiuliana]

Given a choice... I'd rather Tommy stay in LA, help Axl pick a lead guitarist and begin band rehearsals for the "imminent world tour" we've been hearing about. But that's just me I guess...

Unless of course, the completion of the album and start of the world tour is so far off that any of the above is unnecessary at this point... which I believe is the situation we are in. So, of course, Tommy has every right to tour. Good for him. ?

If I could have one questiuon answered involving the new band I would want to know if they're in the hunt (but being hush about it) for a third guitar player, wether it's for more recording or just for touring purposes..

I just want to understand the wait, is it because they want to release it during a smaller market of competition (ie eminem and U-2 out of the initial ass kicking album sales), or because they are waiting for a third player or whatever.. ? The idea is everyone would be put to rest if that much was given to us..

[Mikkamakka]

Quote from: Mikkamakka on Today at 12:32:14 PM
Since Axl's new guys aren't members like Axl is or Slash, Duff, Izzy and Steven was, they are employees. I'm an employee in my school, too. So what? 
And GN'R is really Axl's solo project since he decides who's in and who's out and what'll happen or won't happen in GN'R's future.
So you can?t decide whether you?re out or in?
Do your pupils and their parents point at you and call you "school so-so?s employee" instead of "Mr."?
Is that the way you treat people with respect at the minimum?
I don?t think so.

You have no logic. Sorry. Axl is the boss. He decides who will join GN'R (if the candidate accepts the offer) and who'll be fired. People can live by free will, too, they are not slaves. If you still don't understand it, then you surely have some serious problems with your everyday life or just really tired.

Axl doesn?t decide who's out in most cases. They themselves decided to leave. Apparently he hates people leaving him. Heaven knows what'll happen or won't happen in GN'R's future.

Slash, Duff and Izzy left the band, but they were founding members. Axl fired Gilby and Matt. Freese, Finck, Bhead left, it's not clear what's the case with Tobias, but it's more likely he left, too (or were forced to leave). But since 1997 Axl decides who will play in the band and when he fires someone, it's his decision and not others'.

Besides, not being an old GNR-history hand I think Izzy and Axl met Slash, Duff n Steven through ads or something.

What has this thing anything to do with the argument? In fact Slash and Steven played together and they met Duff through an ad. Axl and Izzy played together in different bands. Once even Izzy and Slash played together before GN'R (I think in the band called London). When Axl and Izzy formed GN'R with Tracii Guns and Rob Gardner, they brought in Duff, too. Tracii and Rob left is about 3 months, and then Duff called his friends, Slash and Steven.

BTW how do you know who is paying whom for a fact?

You are right, Tommy pays Axl's bills and sometimes Robin gives some money to Uncle Axl.

What I don?t understand is why you?re so fixed on this "they?re Axl?s employees and this is Axl?s solo project" thing.
Like you hate to accept this band.

Have you read my previous post or you just quoted by random? They are employees, but nothing's wrong with that. Even employees can make great bands. They aren't members, so they are employees. Right?

You are right in some ways that I can't accept this band as Guns N' Roses. But it's the name and I can't do anything with that, although I'd be happier if Axl had enough courage or self-criticism to continue his career under his name or under a new band name.

But for me songs are more important. I didn't like most of the new songs: the vocals were great (although Axl's voice is different), the musics were not. But I love the new band because of Axl (for his talent not his personality) and I really would like to hear his material. That's why I'm here. I had a lot of better things to do than bashing bands I don't like and I'm not interested in, so I don't visit the Green Day board etc. But I'm really interested in Axl's music and I accept the musicians he chose although I don't like and don't respect the musical skills of some of them. I wanna hear Axl, not Tommy, not Finck, not Fortus, or Dizzy or Pittman or Brain or whoever is in the actual line-up.

[norway]

we'll hear some more from him too, "soon", 

[mikegiuliana]

There's no denying it's axl's band, he has the last word involving everything, he is the person who will hire n fire.. There's no doubt about that, but I'm not saying he doesn't respect other's opinions, it's just his word is the last word and he plans everything.

If the band kept changing members and axl stayed would it really matter, I mean everyone just wants to hear axl sing again and see what he's done over the years.. WHichever way you want to think, the bottom line is everything is final by axl..

He ownes the gnr name, no one else in the group does so until each get a piece in the name then it's HIS band.

[oneway23]

ppbebe, that was a fantastic Tommy interview you posted a page back...Can't believe it slipped by me...extremely insightful, dispels many incorrect perceptions....great stuff

[jarmo]

Go Tommy!


Maybe these shows will help people realize how great his album is. ?


So keep whining about it, some of us are enjoying the fact that he's putting out quality music until Axl says it's time.


Oh, and since some of you still like discussing the name and how it's not a band, it has also become a Dead Horse topic.



/jarmo

[mikegiuliana]

Go Tommy!


Maybe these shows will help people realize how great his album is. ?


So keep whining about it, some of us are enjoying the fact that he's putting out quality music until Axl says it's time.



/jarmo

Youre a good guy dude, believe me I don't want tommy to fail in any way, I hope the guy does great with album sales and his tour..

[younggunner]

You have no logic. Sorry. Axl is the boss. He decides who will join GN'R (if the candidate accepts the offer) and who'll be fired

Although he might give the final stamp on a new member he is not alone in choosing the candiates. Tommy, Bucket, Brain have all joined the band due to recommendations. Axl said lets check them out, they were what he was looking for and bam, the BAND begins to form.

But since 1997 Axl decides who will play in the band and when he fires someone, it's his decision and not others'.

You failed to mention old gnr era. Did Slash and Duff send Izzy packing? Although Izzy didnt get "fired" he got fed up with Axl and left. How come Slash and Duff didnt put thier foot down right then and there if it was such a tight, contoll free band?
Do you really think Axl would have let Gilby or Matt come along if he didnt liek their playing? Lets be real.
You can say what you want about Axls need to control things. Fact is its NOTHING NEW! Did you watch BTM? Have you been following th eband since day 1? Axl steers the ship. If he doesnt liek it, its not happening. Old or new GNR.
With the new band yea it comes across as Axls solo project. But we all know its not. The only thing Axl controlls with this band is th ebusiness side. The music side,the actual BAND SIDE, its a complete BAND effort. You dig, what the fuk im saying....homefuckboy?

They are employees, but nothing's wrong with that. Even employees can make great bands.

Thats wrong. They are a band. They are not the original band, but that doesnt mean they are not a band. I think thats what you mean ?

if Axl had enough courage or self-criticism to continue his career under his name or under a new band name.

Courage? Where do I start. Lets say he did go under a new name. Are you telling me the anticipation, the comaprisons to the old band, etc wouldnt exist. If he went under a new name and still took all this time all that frusteration etc wouldnt exist?
Now for the courage thing. Hmm, arent you and your buddies the same people telling us how GNR name is in the mud/ruined etc? How did that happen? Was it because Axl has decided to keep the name despite the old members leaving, etc. ISnt that balls? To continue something that already has its place in history and instead of moving on he has decided to continue it and put his own legacy on the line. Stop with the courage stuff.
Im not saying give Axl an award for keeping the name. It was his choice. In his mind he feels GNR hasnt eneded, hence he kept the name. Either accept or go listen to VR. the "real" gnr.

Axl does not have any long term advantage with the name. All he has is initial sales. It will be the music the current lineup makes that will decide if they are legit or not. case closed.

I wanna hear Axl, not Tommy, not Finck, not Fortus, or Dizzy or Pittman or Brain or whoever is in the actual line-up.

and that is why this new era of gnr will probably never work for you. Arent you the one complaing about how this isnt a real band, yada yada yada? Then how can you sit here and say Im only here for Axl? I thought you were all about the band thing?

GNR for me is axl,robin,tommy, brain,pittman,dizzy, and fortus...and even bucket for me....thats the band. Thats who i wanna see and hear. The potential of the players combined with Axl excites me. The new songs ..all of them..excite me...the attitude of the band excites me...axl fukin rose excites me....when that album is finally in my hands I will have a complete musical effort by a band...that excites me....

[mikegiuliana]

If he went under a new name and still took all this time all that frusteration etc wouldnt exist?

YG,I'll give an honest view on that little bit I quoted.. I think axl would have less pressure ,he wouldn't have to keep trying to live up or beat what he did inthe days of gnr.. SUre a few critics would try and compare, but he could always have the last word in this isn't gnr anymore, that time has passed and this is my solo project..

Being there would be less pressure and that it would be entirely his work (of course some hired players) I think having full control without having to make others in the band happy it would go smoothly and exactly the way he wanted it, minus the gnr name and the weigth it carries things would happen smoother and easier IMO.. There's just so much opressure to live up to being he started a band with all new players and has such a great background of music to compete with..

WHen page n plant toured I didn't expect them to make a stairway to heaven, nor did I expect ozzy to recreate sabbath..Same way I don't expect vr to duplicate gnr's fame n stength exactly in muisc.. The waiting for cd has put more pressure on axl because of the cd hype, people figure it's taking so long so it better be good.. I think he would have earned more respect if he did a solo project, he always wanted to even during the gnr days..

When you go out on your own your should be given a clean slate and be recognized nowas a solo artist, bands breaj up all teh time and their great contributions are nver forgotten

[mikegiuliana]

GNR for me is axl,robin,tommy, brain,pittman,dizzy, and fortus...and even bucket for me....thats the band. Thats who i wanna see and hear. The potential of the players combined with Axl excites me. The new songs ..all of them..excite me...the attitude of the band excites me...axl fukin rose excites me....when that album is finally in my hands I will have a complete musical effort by a band...that excites me....

I agree with everything you say except pittman, another keyboard player/sound effects type guy is a bit much to me.. Unl;ess his role will be more of a teddy zigzag then I could live with it..

[younggunner]

I think axl would have less pressure ,he wouldn't have to keep trying to live up or beat what he did inthe days of gnr..

Maybe Axl likes that pressure. You all amke it seem as if pressure is a bad thing. We all make it seem as if the reason cd is not out yet is because of "pressure". When it really might not be the case at all.

and this is my solo project

Why do you assume he wants a solo project? maybe he wants a band and a band atmosphere.

I think having full control without having to make others in the band happy it would go smoothly and exactly the way he wanted it, minus the gnr name and the weigth it carries things would happen smoother and easier IMO.. There's just so much opressure to live up to being he started a band with all new players and has such a great background of music to compete with..

maybe Axl doesnt want full control. How bout Axl wants to continue the gnr legacy where it left off musically. Why is that not a possibility.

The waiting for cd has put more pressure on axl because of the cd hype, people figure it's taking so long so it better be good..

AGian if Axl was soooo concerend about the hype and expectations etc dont you think he would have folded by now? By him not saying anyhting at all and just doing whatver he is doing tells me who could careless about pressure, media, hype, expectations.

I think he would have earned more respect if he did a solo project, he always wanted to even during the gnr days..

And if cd is a masterpiece then what?

When you go out on your own your should be given a clean slate and be recognized nowas a solo artist, bands breaj up all teh time and their great contributions are nver forgotten

why are you saying stuff we already know? We all know what a solo artist does.
Let me help you out. Axl ROse is not a solo artist. By Axl continuing on, how will old gnr legacy be forgotten? Is it the lack of Greatest Hits sales or what? Seems liek peopel are jamming to old gnr just fine

Why cant GNR have 2 great legacies? Why cant people say old gnr werew fukin great and new gnr were {whatver they turn out to be}. What if CD is better than AFD and or the illusions. Does that diminish old gnr?  To me it doesnt. To me it means I was lucky enough to follow a band that gave their fans 2 great eras of  music. How is that bad. isnt that what music is about. Making people happy etc? Or should I not accept it becaus ethere is no slash? If Duff remained in GNr would we even be having these tyrp of discussions? What I do know is that if CD turns out to be great I will have 2 great eras of music with 1 common denominator...Axl ROse 

I agree with everything you say except pittman, another keyboard player/sound effects type guy is a bit much to me.. Unl;ess his role will be more of a teddy zigzag then I could live with it..

Ill foward this to Axl and tell him that next time he wants to add/take away a band member or know about the importance of an instrument that he consults you first.Im sure he wouldnt want to put too much on your plate all at once. SO ill give him the headsup

[mikegiuliana]

Must you be a wise ass, I don't have to like every member, I just gave my views..

I also only answered the question about if he was a solo artist that you mentioned before.. Maybe he loves pressure or maybe pressure bothers him, who knows ,it's just a take on things.. I don't know why you quoted everything like I wanted him not to use gnr, I simply addressed your if he was a solo artists statement and how I feel it would benefit him more over staying with the gnr name..
If he has the last word on everything (which he most likely does) then what would be better then an artist on their own with 100% control over eevrything with no on else to please?

I also said he wanted to do a  solo career, I read it years back .

[Mikkamakka]

Jarmo, I'm surprised you've moved this topic to Dead Horse. According to your logic, you could move at least half of the topics of the general GN'R discussion here. So it's nothing but censorship, although we all know you are the boss and you decide.

Edit: sorry, I posted it to the wrong section. I'd delete it, but unfortunately there is a reply to my message, so it'd make MaoAxl blame for 'hijacking' the thread. I wanted to write this to the moderation topic, but I was too passionate about misplacing the argument to Dead Horse. 

[Continental Drift]

Well... it's not really Jarmo's fault- as nu GN'R consistently gives us nothing to talk about, but it's a little sad when the main GN'R message board is nothing more than 60 day old threads about Axl's plastic surgery and hypothetical cover songs you would like to see on CD.

It's too bad that this thread got relegated to the DH section as it is actually pertaining to the only current news regarding the new band- and I do feel GN'R fans patiently waiting for CD should feel strongly about the possible ramifications of Stinson going back out on tour one way or the other...

Nevertheless, I've got way too much respect for Jarmo to make an issue of it.

[jarmo]

I edited your posts and deleted some didn't I?

So it must be censorship.? ?


You people couldn't even let something positive be, you had to turn it into a "it's not a band" thing. A thread about three Tommy Stinson shows!

If you really love the topic of "it's not a band", I suggest you spend more time in the Dead Horse section.

Oh, maybe you'll be interested in the "Axl owes me an album" discussions in this section as well.


Have fun!




/jarmo

[ppbebe]

Young gunner, U rule.

So you can?t decide whether you?re out or in?
Do your pupils and their parents point at you and call you "school so-so?s employee" instead of "Mr."? Is that the way you treat people with respect at the minimum? I don?t think so.

Axl doesn?t decide who's out in most cases. They themselves decided to leave. Apparently he hates people leaving him. Heaven knows what'll happen or won't happen in GN'R's future.
What I don?t understand is why you?re so fixed on this "they?re Axl?s employees and this is Axl?s solo project" thing. Like you hate to accept this band.

You have no logic. Sorry. Axl is the boss. He decides who will join GN'R (if the candidate accepts the offer) and who'll be fired. People can live by free will, too, they are not slaves. If you still don't understand it, then you surely have some serious problems with your everyday life or just really tired.

Have you read my previous post or you just quoted by random? They are employees, but nothing's wrong with that. Even employees can make great bands. They aren't members, so they are employees. Right?

Logic? I think it was pretty obvious?

1)They are genuine members. there I was questioning the purpose in your calling the members "employees" unnaturally n unnecessary. What is the logic of saying that? (Actually I know the answer now Ta, YG)
2) No matter how they met, both Axl and each Member decide whether to work together or not. They are still together coz they want to.

Well?you might have been too busy trying to evade the points. As for Axl?s personality, from the no-cultic kinda fans point of view, at least I can say he seems much nicer than you. That?s an impression I got from bold lines in your post. Shame on you! ?

3) Axl?s band is their band like ones home is home of ones all family members. You start to discuss who own the home and that only when you want to make the family?s life difficult.?
It?s none of your concern to start with.

You don?t have to be a fan of every member but you can?t see the woods for the trees.
I?m speculating that maybe this GNR is to Axl what Led Zeppelin was to Jimmy page.

[ppbebe]

ppbebe, that was a fantastic Tommy interview you posted a page back...Can't believe it slipped by me...extremely insightful, dispels many incorrect perceptions....great stuff

Yep, Pandora and Jarmo posted them in Tommy interview thread.
If you haven?t read them yet,? there are Links on page12 n 13 @ http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=16100.240
These articles gave me a rough idea of why he always put "STILL".? ?
Thorny long path it should be, but they fucking enjoy it!!!? gotta love this band.


mikegiuliana, concerning solo

I don?t think I'd be more fascinated with Axl's solo than Tommy?s one. I like his albums tho.
Somehow most music I find mind-blowing n kick ass happen to be always from bands. I guess I?m not for solo sounds. 
When It?s a right band, say 4 piece one, it's like 25%+25%+25%+25%=120%+XXX (I hope it makes sense). And the more different ideas they bring the better outcome they get. Differences make all the difference as in Democracy that develops things more than monocracy.?