Formula One 2005 season thread

[jarmo]

I wouldn't call winning easy. Look at what has happened to Kimi in previous races.....

Look at what happened to Montoya's "certain" second position.


I was surprised to see Renault pit as early as they did. I thought they were on the same kind of strategy as McLaren.


Yet again Fisichella has problems during his pitstop. 



/jarmo

[GypsySoul]

The announcers here mentioned towards the end of the race ... like with maybe about ten laps to go ... that they saw a puff of smoke come out of Kimi's car.? Anyone hear what was up with that?

[jarmo]

I saw it too. I got worried there for a second or two.

But I don't know if it was smoke or just "dust".



Pedro de la Rosa (McLaren's third driver) thinks Renault used team orders when they told Alonso to pass Fisichella....

That's according to a Finnish F1 site which quotes Spanish newspaper Marca.



/jarmo

[Ignatius]

Yeah, Montoya made an error and Alonso took advantage of it. Juan Pablo has made a few more mistakes than Kimi has, that and his absence due to injury has put him way below his potential. However, I think Kimi is (or at least has been) the better pilot of the two.

De la Rosa kicks ass. He is always comenting the race on TV. He's obviously biased cause he works for Mclaren but always makes objetive statments and gives tips so the audience understands the race better. I didn't see this race, but I believe Alonso passing Fisicho in lap 1 or 2 was a team order. Maybe the team thought Alonso had a better chance to "control" Kimi than Fisicho did. I'm just guessing, but seeing the move this morning, it looked like a team order.

[jarmo]

You could hear the team on the radio. They told Alonso "You're faster than Fisichella, overtake him".

Something like that. You never got to hear if they said anything to Fisichella....



The funniest thing was McLaren's radio at the end of the race. They reminded Kimi he was live on tv..... 



/jarmo

[Ignatius]

The funniest thing was McLaren's radio at the end of the race. They reminded Kimi he was live on tv.....?

/jarmo

I didn't get that...what did he say???

[jarmo]

They just told him the race positions etc and that he was live on tv. 

Maybe he swears a lot on the radio.



/jarmo

[Shoco]

You could hear the team on the radio. They told Alonso "You're faster than Fisichella, overtake him".

Something like that. You never got to hear if they said anything to Fisichella....

/jarmo

can telling one of your drivers to overtake the other be considered a team order??

the FIA have access to all the team radios so im sure they would have looked into it to see if fisi was told to move over

but it was probably more to tell alonso to go for it he has to stay on kimis tail, even if he did pass fifs as soon as they said it rather easily, maybe they already had it planned rom before the race that if alonso was behing fisi to overtake him on a certain lap so fisi would know to let him pass

i think the banning of team orders is stupid anyway

[jarmo]

Banning team orders isn't stupid at all.

What's stupid is seeing Michael Schumacher pass Rubens Barrichello on the last lap because Ferrari told Rubens to move over.....


Giancarlo Fisichella ? Finished 4th/Q.2

"I got a great start even from the dirty side of the grid ? we had a lighter fuel load than the McLarens, and that gave us an advantage off the line. But I was struggling to get my tyres working properly in the opening laps, which meant I went off on lap one and that allowed Kimi to pass me.

Then the team had told me Fernando was quicker, so when he got a good slipstream down the back straight, I did not make things difficult for him because I knew I was fuelled a bit longer. I lost time at the first pit-stop with a problem on the fuel rig, so after that it was a good recovery to finish fourth."


In other words, the team did tell him Alonso was quicker.

It might not be a team order because he wasn't told to let Alonso pass. But he got the point anyway.


Most teams do these kinds of things. It's a shame since it doesn't require that much "racing" when your team mate let's you pass without fighting back.

In this case they were fighting for positions and Fisichella wasn't being lapped (which would be a completely different thing).



/jarmo

[Shoco]

yeah i see what your saying, and i dont agree with the rubens michael thing, but at the end of the day its a team sport

[jarmo]

Report: Raikkonen could switch with Schumacher


Kimi Raikkonen has signed a pre-contract at Ferrari and is to replace record world champion Michael Schumacher at the famed Italian formula-one team from 2007 onwards, Germany's Bild daily reported on Thursday.

Bild said Schumacher could swap cockpits with Raikkonen as he is reportedly in talks with the Finn's outfit, McLaren-Mercedes.

"Kimi Raikkonen has signed a pre-contract at Ferrari," Bild said, citing "absolutely reliable sources".

"The first talks about a move of Raikkonen to Ferrari were held last year. Negotiations on the pre-contract were in February and March. The final agreement on this contract came in May," the report said.

Raikkonen (25) was runner-up to Schumacher in the 2003 season and is currently fighting with Spanish leader Fernando Alonso from the Renault team for the 2005 title. He is rated one of the best drivers in the sport.

Schumacher is the most successful formula-one driver in history with seven world titles, among them five for Ferrari between 2000 and 2004. However, this season he is lagging behind in third place and out of title contention, as Ferrari have lost their dominance.

The German's contract at Ferrari runs until the end of the 2006 season. He has been at Ferrari since 1996.

Bild said earlier this week that Schumacher had met with Mercedes motorsport chief Norbert Haug twice recently about what many in Germany see as a dream partnership between Schumacher and Mercedes.

The daily also said that Ferrari were likely not willing to raise Schumacher's salary of ?35-million (R277-million) per year, as reportedly demanded by his manager, Willi Weber.

"I must ask for more money when I start contract negotiations. That's normal," Germany's Sport-Bild quoted Weber as saying.

The manager allegedly asked for ?40-million. -- Sapa-DPA

http://www.mg.co.za/articlepage.aspx?area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__sport/&articleid=249013



Joining a team that's been going backwards lately? I hope not!





/jarmo

[Shoco]

i dont know how ferrari can justify paying him35m a year now if they cant produce a car that good enough to win, i dont blame them for not wanting to pay more

and why would kimi want to go to ferrari when he has the best car

[jarmo]

Raikkonen staying put
25 August 2005

Kimi Raikkonen insists he is happy at McLaren and is not looking for a move to Ferrari.

German media reports have claimed the Finn has already signed a pre-contract agreement with Ferrari to drive for them in 2007, with Michael Schumacher moving the other way to join McLaren.


But Raikkonen has moved to dismiss these claims by pledging his allegiance to McLaren, whom he joined in 2001 from Sauber. "My objective is to win races and world championships as a member of McLaren-Mercedes," he said.

The 25-year-old, who has won seven races with McLaren and is currently fighting it out with Renault's Fernando Alonso for the world championship, is adamant he is not looking for a move.

He added: "Ever since I came into Formula One, there has been speculation about my future - so the most recent story about 2007 is nothing new to me.

"As I have said on a number of occasions this season already when asked about the rumours, I am completely happy with my team.

"I don't think there is any doubt we have the fastest package. I am winning races; I am still challenging for the world championship; the team is fantastic, and I have a great relationship with everybody here - so why would I even consider changing?

"Surely I am in a situation most drivers in Formula One want to be in."

Schumacher's Ferrari contract expires at the end of next season, and McLaren adopt a policy of refusing to discuss driver deals. However, McLaren chief Ron Dennis confirmed no talks have taken place with Schumacher regarding a drive in 2007.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/



I don't think going to Ferrari would help Kimi's chances of winning a title. But obviously Ferrari wants the best possible driver they can get. At the moment there's two alternatives, the drivers at the top of the championship table.

I don't see Massa being the #1 driver at Ferrari in 2007. They'll get somebody else and as I said, there's not many to choose from.

The question is also whether or not anybody will want to hire Schumacher in 2007. I thought he was supposed to retire when his Ferrari contract ends.




/jarmo

[Ignatius]

Yeah, it was kimi or Alonso. So it's kimi then...

Now this is somehow similar to Button's situation. We can all speculate a bit and wonder (if this is true) when did Kimi sign those pre-contracts. It'd have been dumb to do so now (just look at Ferrari these days) so I'm thinking (again, if this source is reliable..) Kimi must've signed these contracts earlier in the season or last year.

We know Button signed with Williams for a fact, we don't know whether Kimi has done the same with Ferrari, but if he has, he is just back-pedaling like Button is.

[jarmo]

Briatore hits out at 'mind games'

Renault boss Flavio Briatore has accused Formula One title rivals McLaren of playing mind games after accusations of team orders in Istanbul.
McLaren hit out after TV viewers heard Renault tell Fernando Alonso he was clear to pass team-mate Giancarlo Fisichella in the Turkish Grand Prix.

But Briatore said the accusations were designed to destabilise Renault.

He said: "If others think they need to try and pressure us by saying that it's a good sign, but it doesn't bother us."

Briatore said the fact the cameras picked up what Renault were saying to their drivers during the 21 August race proved his team were above board.

He said: "I am surprised nobody has asked why viewers heard those comments on live TV?

"The answer is that our team doesn't believe in unnecessary secrecy, and we have nothing to hide.

"Giancarlo is a team player. He had problems with his tyres in the first laps, and Fernando was faster - something we told him over the radio.

"So when Fernando got alongside him, he didn't fight his team-mate. It is not about team orders, it is about working as a team."

Briatore also insisted he was not worried by McLaren's current pace, which has seen Kimi Raikkonen score consecutive victories to move to within 24 points of world championship leader Alonso.

Last week, Renault engineering boss Pat Symonds said the team were "concerned".

But Briatore said on Monday: "We have already shown we can win this year, with both drivers.

"Our sport is not about dominating at one moment or another, but about scoring points progressively through the season.

"As far as I know, the driver who wins the championship is still the man with the most points at the end, and nothing else."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/



/jarmo

[John Daniels]

Joining a team that's been going backwards lately? I hope not!





/jarmo

perhaps now Ferrari is going backwards but couple of years and they are back on the top again. Ferrari has a huge budget, good spirit and is definetely a team that knows how to win. the key figures Todd and Brawn and co. are still in the team and planning to be around for years so that alternative is very potential. Maclaren is strong but getting to the position that M. Schumacher has/had is very tempting.

even Kimi has said that he really doesn't know what he's goig to do in the future. if next year is full of broken engines who knows if Kimi shows green light for his manager to get him to the Ferrari.. next year will show.

[jarmo]

McLaren has changed the engine in Kimi's car, so he'll be dropped ten places.

Again.


I guess the championship is over even before this race has begun thanks to McLaren's "reliability".




/jarmo

[GypsySoul]

My Italy picks:

1. Raikkonen
2. Montoya
3. Alonso
4. Trulli
5. M. Schumacher
6. Button
7. Fisichella
8. R. Schumacher

[John Daniels]

nice going from mercedes! they just can't get their engines work. so now it's 11'th position for kimi.?






edit. and the problem was engine's admission valves..again.

[Ignatius]

I guess the championship is over even before this race has begun thanks to McLaren's "reliability".

/jarmo

Not so fast...(unfortunately)

The following is not "it ain't over till is over" type of thing. It's based on a reasonable analisys.

Kimi was the fastest today with heavier full loads than anybody else. And that's scary. This is just an opinion, but if you look at other races in which Kimi had to begin from outback, he had heavier fuel loads than anybody else, so why would this time be any different?

He will start from the 11th position. Now, that's not like being put back to 20th. He will probably pass a few cars within the first turns and will begin lap 2 in 7th or 8th position. This guy has the fastest car around, and he's proved he can overtake cars like no one this year, so I don't think he's gonna have a problem in securing a  temporary third position within the first 10 laps, regardless the traffic. He will also re-fuel last, so that'll leave him a few extra laps to expand his difference, so when he gets back to the race after the stop, he will most likely do so ahead of Alonso.

Now, if that's the scenario, McLaren will indeed use some handy team tactics and Kimi will pass JP Montoya. It will be dumb not to use team orders if that's the situation. Kimi has a shot, JP doesn't.

And what will Alonso do? well, he is fine finishing 3rd in every race until the end of the season. There's no need to really take any risks. However, that's a? double edge sword. If kimi wins, lets say the next two races and cuts down 10 points, the difference will only be 14 points then. If Alonso is forced to quit in any of the forthcoming races, it will be then anybody's ball game. I think Alonso is gonna test the waters in the next two races and play conservative. If he needs to push, he will, but for the time being, he is fine not taking any risks.

Anyway, I'll post my picks tomorrow after I give it some thought. Gypsy's picks are not that far off...(just an opinion)