Let me vent..

[Intercourse]

please no one ever put U2 in the same sentence as GNR.

Why not? . Look at U2s album sales, it averages between 5 and 9 million for EVERY album they have released (11 now). That is the lagacy I expected from GNR. Whatever you say, it must be devastating to be in a band that had the capability and chops to take their place beside the Rolling Stones, U2 etc but stylistic and core identuity issues caused the band to fall apart.  I don't blame any member of the band for being bitter with the one other, that chance is gone. I mean if they ever get to the RNR Hall of Fame who is going to be honored on the day? Have 2 cermonies, one for each carnation of the band?
I also mention U2 because they are a model of what can be achieved through communication, bravery and DEMOCRACY. Each member has an equal say and that is RULE OF LAW in U2. The guys in the new GNR are not angry with Axl for taking so long because they probably deep down don't FEEL it's their band anyway. They have worked hard on music, been well paid for it (Tommy is rumored to have gotten a 7 figure sum) and job well done. They check in to hear the mixes...I mean come ON!!! What band members in your standard band would be happy with that limited input??? It goes against the grain completely. Band members are PASSIONATE about how the music will sound in teh final mix. Now, that said maybe AXl has the vision and chops to produce this monster on his own but it looks to me like the guy has TOO many ideas colliding with each other mixed up with TOO many ideas about what the world outside will say if he lets this thing go and puts it out.
He's scared, over worked, cannot see the wood for the trees and now producing alone because the advice of some of the worlds best producers didn't seem to suit.
Axl  wants perfection and sorry man, we are human, it is not ours to have.
Axl needs a mentor to push him on, but I just think he's too much cash and too much pedigree to facilitate one. He doesn't take orders..that simple. You all read what Flood said about working with him, Axl flat refused to go to the studio with him after jamming, he wasn't 'ready'. Flood had to move on.
Poor bastard, I often wonder does he get depressed looking at Slash & Duff  with a  wife and kids, something he said he's always wanted as he hides away burning his brain up over every note of this mammoth. I mean is he not BORED out of his SKULL with the songs???
He's got to let this go soon....for his own sake, never mind ours.




They have made stylistic errors but came out of it ok. Axl never seems to be able to take that chance, he just cannot seem to stand the criticism despite the 'fuck you' attitude.
I never understood why he wanted to be the next NIN when I watched a GNR crowd boo them off in Manheim in 1991. Plus, GNR were selling ten times as many records.

[Intercourse]

I never understood why he wanted to be the next NIN when I watched a GNR crowd boo them off in Manheim in 1991. Plus, GNR were selling ten times as many records and still do.

[younggunner]

I never understood why he wanted to be the next NIN

here we go again

[Intercourse]

you're right young gunner..dead horse topic the NIN one.
Still, to watch 75,000 of your fans boo the opening act off and then have your lead singer turn around and say he wants to move in their direction musically would shit you up a bit.
'Nuff said...
Intercourse

[MadmanDan]

Oh come on,not this shit again!!! I'm sick of reading threads about how GNR died ten years ago and about what a big asshole Axl Rose is and I'm especially tired to hear people talking about the so-called delayes. There have been no delayes!!!!!! You need an official release date to have a delay,but all the dates so far were bullshit roumors.

Axl will release the album when or if he wants it and nobody can do anything about it,so please people,read a book,go out,meet a girl,watch Football on TV,get drunk,live your fuckin life!

[norway]

I say maybe axl made a mistake (not knowing the time it takes) sayin the stuff about cd that he said in 99,

Allthough he was very clear in 02 "soon is not the word"

[younggunner]

Still, to watch 75,000 of your fans boo the opening act off and then have your lead singer turn around and say he wants to move in their direction musically would shit you up a bit.

and ill bet yout out of those 75 of gnr fans a good majority ended up being nin fans...grunge etc....

Axl liekd those type of bands before they hit big. It just shows that he has a good ear and idea of how things evolve and how you have to keep doing different things.

I highly doubt Axl wanted GNR to tunr into NIN. Look at old GNR. They had many different influences and molded it into their own sound.
Whats worng with taking newer elements such as Industrial/folk music or whatver the fuk u wnat and mold it into your future creations. It sthe same philosophy. Just different music. It doesnt have to be heavily influenced.....just a smidge here and there...CD will be a melting pot...

[D]

U2 to me is like rap music, every song sounds the same, bono compared to Axl Rose is no comparison, cmon bono, i dont know, maybe i just never gave them a chance but id rather be locked in a room with techno dance music then sit through U2

[Mikkamakka]

Quote
However I feel that Axl doesn't know what he wants to do with this album. He isn't satisfied with the product, and keep working and working on it , but he can't keep a distance from the record. He totally lives in the world of CD, lives in the world of 12 to I don't know 60 songs, works on this, works on that, but he doesn't feel it's perfect.
Well according to Tommy,
Some of the stuff had been done a while ago and hadn't changed much; I didn't really bother with that.
So according to Tommy, who is actually in the band and has been there since it started, he is saying the older tunes HAVNT CHANGED MUCH...menaing your wrong when you say all Axl does is fiddle with all the songs.

And Dizzy said that every song has 3 different versions. Are you saying that Dizzy's lying?? On the other hand Tommy even said the songs he had heard, were songs they'd been working long ago. So don't you think that Axl had been working on other songs and then went back for other (earlier) songs?

Quote
hopefully he works on the album and not just plays GTA all day long)
Axl ain't just sitting up there fucking, sitting there watching fucking TV, waiting for the fucking sun to come up. It's like he's been working on this shit for a long time, we've all been working on it sporadically throughout. It's gotta be right.

Quote
Anyway, there are 3 possibilities:
1. Axl is really crazy and still working on CD and we won't hear it anytime soon (or ever).
2. Axl has lost his creativity or he feels that GN'R isn't working without Slash, Izzy and Duff.
3. Axl doesn't really work on CD, just plays computer games and watches NBA.
or.....Axl is really determined to deliver th ebest dam album possible. And along the journy there have been several obstacles, musically and behind the scenes the band has had to overcome. No doubt, Axl's perfectionism has played a big role in the "delays" but there are other things that play into it as well....

So you are with the first possibility.

Quote
I thought that it was a bad idea to fire every producer and Axl took over the producer job, because it's obvious that he can't control the things himself and can't see when it's great
Just because there have been several producers doesnt mean he has fired them all. Did you maybe stop and think that each producer was brought in to work on specific type songs? And when they were doen they werent needed?

We will see it, but it'd be a crazy idea and in this case even if CD is released in 2005 we won't have a follow-up album before 2012.

I'm especially tired to hear people talking about the so-called delayes. There have been no delayes!!!!!! You need an official release date to have a delay,but all the dates so far were bullshit roumors.

Loder: When do you think we will actually see this album? Is it possible to say early next year?
Rose: We're hoping. Yes, definitely, everything seems to be going well.
(1999)

The new Guns N Roses album is tentatively titled Chinese Democracy and loosely scheduled for summer 2000.
''As far as I can tell,'' says GnR's manager Doug Goldstein, ''we are now 99% musically done and 80% vocals done. I see the record being done Feb or March for a summer release.''
(2000 January)

According to him, his voice was not at his best because of lack of sleep and the band needs to adjust the sound to these great shows. The expectations of the band turns now to the new album, "Chinese Democracy", which will be released in June. The leader guarantees his fans that they will be rewarded for the long wait.
(2001 January)

DJ: When is it gonna be the new album? Is it possible that we're gonna have a new record from Guns N' Roses?
Axl: Yes, I've heard. Um, hopefully we will put out a new single umm sometime this spring and then the record gonna be done in June or shortly thereafter.
(2001 January)

R&P: We know that Chinese Democracy will be released in June, but we wanted to know what the reasons are for taking so long before releasing the album?
Axl: We hadn't written songs or recorded for many years.
(2001 January)

Ditch: You've really, you've... It sounds like really nurtured relationships with these guys, and the new disc "Chinese Democracy". Umm, do you have any idea when the fruits of those labours will come to harvest?
Axl: Uhh, sometime during the next year.
(2002 November)

he (Dizzy) says GNR never stopped working and that Rose spent time assembling a new corps of musicians as well as recording the new album "Chinese Democracy" -- expected out during 2003 -- with a number of producers.
(2002 November)

etc.


And one thing about that Axl knows what he's doing:

Loder: What have you been doing for the last six and a half years, since the last tour ended?
Rose: Trying to figure out how to make a record.
1999...

[mikegiuliana]

Nice mikkamakka, This album has been slated and suppose to come out or be almost done or 99% done so many damn times, they even did a chinese democracy tour, those Q & A just prove axl is unstable and we're probably as close to seeing the album now as we were then..

It's second week in november and there isn';t eh slightest buzz about the album, even tommy is thinking about touring in the winter, just goes to show nothing is going on right now..

I forgot it was all buckethead's fault :hihi:He's erratic ,I know someone else in gnr that fits the bill, pot calling the kettle..

It's a shame to think it might come out one day because it's forced out by geffen..

[younggunner]

And Dizzy said that every song has 3 different versions. Are you saying that Dizzy's lying?   On the other hand Tommy even said the songs he had heard, were songs they'd been working long ago. So don't you think that Axl had been working on other songs and then went back for other (earlier) songs?

Just because that a lot of the songs have multiple versions doesnt mean they are continuously being worked on. Im not saying that Axl doesnt go back and fiddle with songs. Im sure he does. BUt as Tommy has said the majoruty of the old songs havnt changed. Menaing Axl hasnt been focusing his time mainly on those.

We will see it, but it'd be a crazy idea and in this case even if CD is released in 2005 we won't have a follow-up album before 2012.

Once Cd is released then everything will fall into place. the key is getting this first album out. After that everything will take care of itself. If its a success we will see the follows very quickly. If it bombs then we either wont get the followup for awhile or not get it at all....

Do you think Axl is just working on songs for CD? You dont think most of the songs they have are near done?



You continue to fail to mention that Axl has also siad the album wont be done soon. And you fail to mention what he said at the vmas.....


If you havnt realized....PLANS CHANGE

[Mikkamakka]

You continue to fail to mention that Axl has also siad the album wont be done soon. And you fail to mention what he said at the vmas.....


If you havnt realized....PLANS CHANGE

I repeat it again:

Axl Rose, 2002 November (he said it after the summer press release, and after the VMAs):

Ditch: You've really, you've... It sounds like really nurtured relationships with these guys, and the new disc "Chinese Democracy". Umm, do you have any idea when the fruits of those labours will come to harvest?
Axl: Uhh, sometime during the next year.
(2002 November)

And that's what I say: plans (if there is any) change. Always. And then again. And again. That's why CD is still unreleased.

[mikegiuliana]

Youngunner how do you know there's material for multiple albums, didn't tommy himself say there was only one? He says narrowing down 35 to 30 and so on, he always says RECORD.. Keep believing it's some master plan and all, the fact is you'll never just say we should have had the album ages ago like those interviews imply and that axl just doesn't come through, instead you just try to deffend and mask everything.. I mean the quotes are right there, right from axl's mouth..

Yes he said more recording in 2002, but he was done each year before.. The man just seems scared to release the album..

I seriously doubt that the reclusivce rose is going to tour for years and drop albums along the way.. He can't get one out, now he's going to have multiple albums?? Plus the dude is prone to problems while touring

[ppbebe]

didn't tommy himself say there was only one?

One of his interviews hinted at the next one and the possibility that there's material for more than an album.

Once an architect told me that,
An architect shouldn?t fawn over his clients. It ruins the architecture.
When he obeys them he end up providing them unsafe and uncomfortable buildings.
Being called asshole or whatever doesn?t hurt him much as his works being defective constructions that would hurt people later on.

[younggunner]

Youngunner how do you know there's material for multiple albums, didn't tommy himself say there was only one? He says narrowing down 35 to 30 and so on, he always says RECORD.. Keep believing it's some master plan and all, the fact is you'll never just say we should have had the album ages ago like those interviews imply and that axl just doesn't come through, instead you just try to deffend and mask everything.. I mean the quotes are right there, right from axl's mouth..

Its real simple. Axl said it on tour. You dont wanna beleive it..thats your problem. Not mine.

Yes he said more recording in 2002, but he was done each year before.. The man just seems scared to release the album..

Do you guys undertsand english? Do you guys have anything else betetr to do than bring up the same old arguments?

Ill break it down for you again....

It seems as if the band was ready and confident that they had and were going to release CD in 2000. BUt then Buckethead came along. And with that meant more recording. With that meant new material. Possibly better material. With Bucket the band began to solidify. Hence the delays.

I seriously doubt that the reclusivce rose is going to tour for years and drop albums along the way.. He can't get one out, now he's going to have multiple albums?? Plus the dude is prone to problems while touring

Whatvever happens, happens. Who knows what the plan is by now. According to Tommy they will be touring the world. So that tells me the plan for the most part is still in tact.
But things changes so....either accept it or move on

[mikegiuliana]

fine dude but what about those quotes above, don't they mean anything?? Buckethead came along in 2000, material was done already, not everything was scrapped.. It would be stupid to just waste? a year or two of effort.. Yes axl said more recording after the vmas, but he also said that the album, or soemthing of that nature was done before that..

Even you have to admitt there has to be plenty of stuff recorded by the vmas, and 2002 tour, ok even if bh didn't get to do as much recording as needed it's still 6 months later now, and there's still no word of anything..

Tommy was saying it could drop anytime since late spring and the summer and that was a little time after buckethead left, so something had to be ready.. He was saying these things a few months after he left, so how much could be missing?

To answer your first reply, axl says alot of things, they don't seem to ever matter, do the things he says actually happen..  Those quotes show he said alot and didn't stick with it..

[younggunner]

Buckethead came along in 2000, material was done already, not everything was scrapped.. It would be stupid to just waste  a year or two of effort..

Why would re doing some material be stupid? Because fans say so?

You fail to realize the fact that this isnt an Axl ROse solo project. He wants to be a BAND. You would be one of the first ones to complain to Axl that he is a dictator and how he is just bringing in these guys to record existing material. I guarentee we would hear you whine about that. Instead he waited until the band was pretty much assembled and they have created their won bulk of material. Its taken longer but thats how it goes...

Even you have to admitt there has to be plenty of stuff recorded by the vmas, and 2002 tour, ok even if bh didn't get to do as much recording as needed it's still 6 months later now, and there's still no word of anything..

Of course, you would have to be an idiot to think that they dont have any material. I beleive they have a shitload of material. Atleast 2 solid albums worth...probably 3...
communication and production are 2 different things.

To answer your first reply, axl says alot of things, they don't seem to ever matter, do the things he says actually happen..  Those quotes show he said alot and didn't stick with it..

So dont get your panties wet when something doesnt pan out. You seem to know all the answers and outcomes so instead of whining why havnt you learned about the whole "until its in your hands, its bullshit" by now?

[mikegiuliana]

Why would re doing some material be stupid? Because fans say so?[quote/]

No because a year or two worth of recording to just get scrapped is a waste of both time and money, especially when you say in 99 that you have all this material and even can desrbie the type of sound we should expect from it..

You fail to realize the fact that this isnt an Axl ROse solo project.

Could have fooled me, just look at hom informed the other guys in the group are, they know nothing.. You'll do anything to say this isn't just axl using musicians to help him out to further himself.. It's a group with not one record out and the people who have contributed aren't the same as when this project started.. They lost their best player..

So dont get your panties wet when something doesnt pan out. You seem to know all the answers and outcomes so instead of whining why havnt you learned about the whole "until its in your hands, its bullshit" by now?

You dude just swing from axl's nut, whichever way he goes you follow and cover up for everything, plus you seem to be a know it all when it comes to everything, but you can't see the quotes in front of your face.. The guy lies and you just say oh it's different and he said this and that ,you just quote what's good for your argument..

Of course, you would have to be an idiot to think that they dont have any material. I beleive they have a shitload of material. Atleast 2 solid albums worth...probably 3...
communication and production are 2 different things.

I love how only axl's band has such problems, only he can't get his shit together.. If you read tommy's interview from jarmo it didn't apear that he had so much material, and the stuff he did have was being narrowed down to a RECORD. Anyone can have tons of material, doesn't mean it will be on the record .. He said in like 99-2000 that he has two albums worth of material, but that doesn't mean they're going to be on three albums, just means he has 40 songs or so..

He's been talking about CHinese Democracy for 5 year now, why should anyone believe he has all these other albums.. The man can't even tour for a month without getting booted.. The chinese d let me stretch my legs tour

[Continental Drift]

This whole thing is sad. Axl clearly still enjoys making great music (Madagascar and The Blues, etc.) and being around talented musicians (Robin, Tommy), but it's looking like he has ZERO desire to tour, promote, release and be judged. Let's face it, his behavior on the '02 tour showed a man that would rather have been serving 40 years hard time than be on the road.

Sadly, Axl has been walking around in a delusional "daze" for 11 years now... granted Axl in a delusional daze is still better than 99% of the musicians out there, but until he snaps out of it... NOTHING is going to happen with this project- which is truly tragic given the immense potential of this band and the legions of fans they would quickly accumulate.

[younggunner]

No because a year or two worth of recording to just get scrapped is a waste of both time and money, especially when you say in 99 that you have all this material and even can desrbie the type of sound we should expect from it..

Again, back in 99/2000 they might have had material but they didnt have that solidified band.

Could have fooled me, just look at hom informed the other guys in the group are, they know nothing.. You'll do anything to say this isn't just axl using musicians to help him out to further himself.. It's a group with not one record out and the people who have contributed aren't the same as when this project started.. They lost their best player..

Um, each member in this band contributed a great deal to the music. How is that not a band? How is that an Axl solo project? How is it different from old GNR?
Axl has and always will be the guy that steers teh ship. But that doesnt mean he controls the music or is a dictator.
Ballads, and My world were on old gnr records...does that mena the old guys were there just for Axls shits n giggles?

The guy lies and you just say oh it's different and he said this and that ,you just quote what's good for your argument..

actually i dont. I have said a zillion times that the band has made a shitload of mistakes. But all of those mistakes have not been on the music side. And im here because of the music. I dont egt all pissed off because Axl has decided to take his time with it. Im sorry I dont. If I was worried about that I probably would have got pissed and left a long time ago....im here because of the music. ANd unless they release utter garbage ill always be here.

You can talk about all the negatives you want...but that will all go away in a qucik second if the material blows your lil nuts off.
So until then...I just sit her eon the stairs i rather be alone...if i cant have it right now, Ill wait here....

If you read tommy's interview from jarmo it didn't apear that he had so much material, and the stuff he did have was being narrowed down to a RECORD. Anyone can have tons of material, doesn't mean it will be on the record .. He said in like 99-2000 that he has two albums worth of material, but that doesn't mean they're going to be on three albums, just means he has 40 songs or so..

But if you have been paying attention to the interviews and that Loder interview you love to quote from you would realize that I say they have several different albums and not just a shitload of songs because:

It took working on the majority of these things and at least the couple albums' [worth] of material to figure out what should be on the first official Guns album. I wouldn't say it's like, you know, that we recorded a double album, or that we have all of our scraps to be the second one. There is a distinct difference in sound. The second leans probably a little more to aggressive electronica with full guitars, where the first one is definitely more guitar-based.

Meaning they have different type of material for each album. Not just songs they pull out of their ass...
read that quote a few more times....maybe you will finally understand what im talking about being you failed to realize it while u quoted Axl from that interview about a thousand times

He's been talking about CHinese Democracy for 5 year now, why should anyone believe he has all these other albums.. The man can't even tour for a month without getting booted.. The chinese d let me stretch my legs tour

Please dirtect me to a quote or statement from Axl that shows he is asking for anyone to believe him?
If you havnt noticed alreadyhe doesnt really care if you dont. He is doing things on his terms. If you cant accept that you have a whole world of choices to fall back on.