To anyone who doubts the chemistry of this band...

[younggunner]

Your a joke younggunner,what about Axls lack of respect..those guys can suck my dick... u forgot about that...Duff and Slash had the balls to tell Axl to stick it up his ass,they moved on and its obvious Axl is struggling with out them,,tick tock tick tock

Theres a big difference between cursing at someone and lieing. Aww Axl told SLash and the boys to suck his dick. Poor babies. Bad Axl. You white trash piece of shit you. Your not allowed to curse in rock n roll.
Give me a fukin break.
All Slash and Duff have been doing is exactely what Axl has said they have been doing...making up bullshit. Its getting old.

You can talk about the delays all you want. You wont get an argument here. But again as I and many other peopel have said on the boards, that argument is only good until the album drops. And if that album is a masterpiece its gonna be fun ... 

[ClintroN]

Your a joke younggunner,what about Axls lack of respect..those guys can suck my dick... u forgot about that...Duff and Slash had the balls to tell Axl to stick it up his ass,they moved on and its obvious Axl is struggling with out them,,tick tock tick tock

your the joke mate, yeah ok Slash n' Duff have the balls, them tell me this.....
If Slash N' Duff have balls then why the fuck did they sign the agreement that GNR can continue without them.
So now we have em' crying like lttle girls...it's not GNR, Axl wouldnt go on stage so we had no choice, bla bla bla!!!!
get you facts straight dude, ya got nothin'!!!!

I think Slashedguns just dug himself a hole!!!!
a deep one?

[estranged.1098]

If you're gonna quote Axl, do it properly...?

Now I was uh, perusing. I was reading all about my integrity, cause that's what I'm known for I guess---selling out my integrity. That's why I'm here with you now, cause I don't give a fuck I guess. Yeah, that's why we worked real hard at this, that's why these guys worked real hard at being in a band that they can get abuse for, because "they're the guys in the way of getting the old band back together." That's horseshit. I'm not trying to bum anybody out, but, you know, I was thinking about it. I'm pretty blunt so people get real pissed. And I haven't done a lot of talking on this tour. Ill shut up real soon don't worry. Y'know, I tried acting nice and that just ends up fucking me right up the ass. They take advantage of that. "Axl said something nice so how can we use that to our advantage?" The truth is they didn't want to be here for you at this level and they don't want to take it farther. I mean, that's their business right? But not at my expense or yours. You've been played. You've been lied to. You've been used. Youve been manipulated so that they can ride around in limos and jam with Snoop Dogg or whoever the fuck. You know, I don't care, that's their business. But they shouldn't really do it at your expense or mine. Now as soon as I say this it'll be on an MP3, someone will transcribe it, and the next person will say "Can you believe Axl said that? I mean my god. I mean he hasn't put out a record. I don't know why he would say that. I mean who does he think he is? That's not very nice. The other guys, they have gotten over it and they're his friend now and they're willing to be his friend and he just needs to grow up." I'm sorry. I'm a little bit more blunt. I mean Slash may sound like a De La Hoya, but he's the fuckin Vargas. That's just how it is. And just because he's got a bunch of guys agreeing doesn't mean shit. The truth is that they're a bunch of bad cops and I'm the fuckin Serpico and they can 'suck my dick'!
"Y'know without Axl and Slash we wouldn't have November Rain and Estranged." Well you don't know what the fuck I went through to get that guy to play those songs. You don't know about the argument we had at K&M studios, because Duff and Slash came to me going "We're not gonna do that song, we're not gonna do this song, nope, nope, we're just not gonna do it." But I wanna do it. We'll do it right now. This song is called 'patience'.

[ClintroN]

some one really should ask Slash n' Duff if they never wanted to play those songs.....see what they say

[ccorn69]

some one really should ask Slash n' Duff if they never wanted to play those songs.....see what they say

cant wat to hear there version of shit

[St.heathen]

Theres a big difference between cursing at someone and lieing. Aww Axl told SLash and the boys to suck his dick. Poor babies. Bad Axl. You white trash piece of shit you. Your not allowed to curse in rock n roll.
Give me a fukin break.
All Slash and Duff have been doing is exactely what Axl has said they have been doing...making up bullshit. Its getting old.

But your argument fails when you say "it's Rock n' Roll" for swearing.  I would put speaking your mind as a Rock n' Roll thing too.  Infact the guys that stick up for either side all the time - you make them all look weak, like they need their fans to defend them?lol - they are grown men, leave them to it.

Just because You or I don't agree with something  they say.  Who cares?  How does that matter to anyone but them?  Only they and the people around them really know the shit that's gone on and we will probably never get a true understanding of it all. Because it's all coming from a point of view.  It's always going to be a different side of things.

Why do people get so personal when and feel they have to defend one side?? I really don't get that, it's not a sport, it's music.  If you would call them liars to their faces then fine be a man and do that if you feel the need to.  I personally fully respect everyone that made Appetite, Lies and Illusions and i always will. I love that band and that music. And i'm fully behind CD as i have been for 13 bloody years. 

The GN'R fan-fantasy-divide thing is what's getting old, because I would say most of us don't think that way.  Axl may like VR, who's to know?  Just because he doesn't get on with the guys anymore, Doesn't mean he couldn't like the music. 

Anyway as you say it's Rock N' Roll.

[willow]

I was at Chicago and I agree, the best show I have ever been to. I also have seen several bootlegs of others and think they all were great!

[PeterCoffin]

its like we have transfered from Harvard to a local community college. Can you still get an education at both, absolutely, does that make the community college education as good as the Harvard....absolutely not.

Dude... fuck Harvard.

[estranged.1098]

because Duff and Slash came to me going "We're not gonna do that song, we're not gonna do this song, nope, nope, we're just not gonna do it."

"Dizzy", you have no way of knowing if that happened or not. To say "So I guess that makes Axl "Mr. I cannot tell a lie" Rose a liar." is making up stuff out of your ass, simply showing how desperate and irrational you are when it comes to bashing Axl.

[Dr H Lecter]

well as the look Axl and Robin give eachother as Sweet Child ends

That is the climax of new gnr for that tour,. That look that song. right there was the end of new gnr for that tour....

Albany is another great show to watch if you doubt this bands chemistry. Even Buckethead gets involved in that show....

If you want to see REAL chemistry....watch the Ritz 88.

or watch chicago 2002? this thread isnt about the old band.

The same can be said of the chemistry of this band. Do they have some....yeah, is it a serious downgrade from what we used to have.....yeah.

Being that you want to go there...

you talk of a serious downgrade. You know whats a serious downgrade? The music on CB compared to what they are capable of. Thats a serious downgrade. You know what else a serious downgrade is? The lack of respect I have for Duff and Slash, Duff in particular for running thier mouths and saying bullshit over the past few yrs. Thats the downfgrade my friend.

Back on topic....for anyone who doubts the chemistyr of this band, please go watch some of the shows on the past tour.

 And where can i get the chicago show? I have the MSN on VHS, but i would really like to see Chicago! Is it awalible to download on the internet?

And one more thing! I Love Nightrain from Pukkelpop! Anyone seen this great clip? http://www.newgnr.com/dloads/shortclips/axlntrain.wmv

Wow nice clip and people say he cant sing anymore, incredible.

[ClintroN]

some one really should ask Slash n' Duff if they never wanted to play those songs.....see what they say

I'm not sure about Duff, but Slash said that he liked "Patience".? And this was not recently, this was sometime in the late 80s/early 90s, when he was still in Guns N Roses.? The link to his quote escapes me right now, but I know that Slash said he liked "Patience".

So I guess that makes Axl "Mr. I cannot tell a lie" Rose a liar.? Furthermore, it's interesting how Axl says that about "Patience", a song which wasn't even written by him, it was written largely by Izzy.? If anybody should be bitching about Slash and Duff alleged lack of interest on that song, it should be Izzy.

And it's funny how Duff and Slash did all the songs Axl says they wouldn't do.? Axl ended up getting his way with those songs yet he still whines and bitches that Slash and Duff wouldn't work on them.

Just like what Axl said about "Estranged".? To paraphrase, he said people say to me, without Slash, you wouldn't have songs like "November Rain" and "Estranged".? God, you don't know how hard I had to work to get that guy to play on those songs.

Yeah, so Slash didn't want to play them initially, but the fact is, he did end up playing on them.? Yet Axl still has the gall to whine and cry about it.? Hell, on the "Making of Estranged" video, Axl was sincerely thanking Slash for playing on those songs, now he's bitching about the experience.

Man how the hell do you know Slash is tellin' the truth, Slash n' Duff are the once's bithin' n' cryin' right now, the only thing Axl had something to say on the 02' tour was it was hard for him to get those dudes to play those songs, nothing els really

Lets see when interviews n' all that shit starts happening for GNR, Slash n' Duff cant shut up about Axl, they're the ones sooking over him in every interview, sure they get asked questions about him but they like to brag on!!!

You say 'Slash didnt want to play them initially, but the fact is, he did end up playing them'.......well i wonder why

[younggunner]

And it's funny how Duff and Slash did all the songs Axl says they wouldn't do.  Axl ended up getting his way with those songs yet he still whines and bitches that Slash and Duff wouldn't work on them.

Yes to show that they didnt want to do it. Its brought up because it plays into the whole gnr braking up situation.

Just like what Axl said about "Estranged".  To paraphrase, he said people say to me, without Slash, you wouldn't have songs like "November Rain" and "Estranged".  God, you don't know how hard I had to work to get that guy to play on those songs.

and in no way is he taking away the contributions from what the old members did. All he is saying is that if they had their way we wouldnt have songs liek that.

Of course Axl could be the "better" man and not curse at the old members. But if you actually look at what he is saying he isnt lieing or atleast is not changing his tune. All he says is that they didnt want to work as hard as they needed to work. And that if they had their choice they would rather do AFD type stuff.
ANd the other side they say all this shit about Axls creative input in the band. They should be grateful that Axl Rose was the frontman of that band.

Please point me to an Axl quote where he knocks or takes away the contributuons of duff or slash. The actual music contributions. Axl respects old gnr.

The difference between Axl and the old guys is that Axl could give two shits about them in the sense of what they do. Axl has his own mind made up and he sticks with it.

[younggunner]

He first mentions that people tell him without Slash he wouldn't have "Estranged".  His response is that he had to work hard just to get Slash to play on those songs.  So within that context, it is fair to say that Axl is undermining the contribution Slash made to songs like that.

No he isnt. He has never bashed or took away the contributions of the old members. Regardless of whther they wanted to do it or not. They did it and produced. He is saying that if he didnt push them or whatver that those songs wouldnt have existed only because they wanted to do more rnr based songs. Im ny eyes that is not a knock

and if you look at the situation is Axl lying? I dont see VR putting out epic masterpieces. What have VR been saying all along? That they wanted to keep it simple, that they wanna just do rnr.

He's presenting his point of view, which may not necessarily be the truth either

Thats fair. We have no idea if its the total truth. But witht hat being said, Axl hasnt changed his tune. He has stuck with what he has been saying. And what he says about the old guys is turning out to be true. But its up to you to take it as truth.

Just because they wanted to work differently than Axl doesn't mean they didn't want to work hard.  See, Axl believes they were slackers because they didn't want to "evolve".  But just because they didn't want to change their styles doesn't mean they didn't want to work hard.

BUt it fits right in with the contradictions slash and duff have. They say 1 thing and then later on they say another. Plus it fits right in with the breakup. The main reason is artistic differences and philosophies. Axl wanted to "keep pushing" while the old guys want to keep it "simple" theres no right or wrong. BUt its wrong to bash Axls contributions to old gnr. Th eold members have been talking a big game lately becaus eof VR but back in the day Axl was the maiun show with GNr and they got fed up with that.

However, as I mentioned above, he does place himself on the pedestal by presenting himself as the "savior" of the music, e.g. "I had to work to get Slash to play on those songs".  Ultimately, it matters not how hard Axl had to work to get Slash to play on "Estranged".  The bottom line is that Slash did play on it, and he played a huge part in making the song what it was, regardless of what it took to get him to play on it.

How though? Let me ask you a question. FOr the most part, particularly before VR and particularly before they started yapping this past yr, wouldnt you agree the general perception especially among gnr fans was that Axl killed old gnr because of his music vision etc?
How did that perception come about? Because of the comments SLash and DUff and Mtatt have made over the yrs regarding the situation. Axl didnt say jack shit for the longest time.
How come you say hes painting himself as the savior when he speask his side for the first time. He has only talked about the situation in a frmal matter a handful of times. I just dont get why he is not allwoed to speak his piece on the matter.

Bullshit.  If that were true, he'd never feel the need to spend his onstage rants bitching about them

First off, as you always do, you make it seem as if all Axl does is talk about the old band when he rants. That is incorrect. He didnt even talk much on the past tour. There were a handful of instances when he discussed the old band. ANd it weasnt bashing them. It was more towards discussing his side of the story. He comes across as fed up with what there saying. Why is that wrong? Cant he be pissed if they are lying about the whole thing? And tell his fans.

The same could be said about Slash and Duff, since they made up their minds that they weren't going to let Axl dissuade them from their musical roots.

That would be fine only if they didnt bash Axl and his contributions and talk a big game when they are the flavor of the week. It would also be fine if they wrere singing the same tune throughpout the whole time, not going back and forth.

Contraband is proof of that.

CB is proof of many things

Regardless of what you think of the record, it constitutes proof that Slash and Duff are sticking to what they believe in, instead of letting Axl dictate their musical careers, something that Axl has admitted in interviews he was doing and wanted to do.

And that contradicts your complaining about the axl rants. CB doesnt have estrangeds,nr etc on it. Axl has said they didnt want to do those songs. So whats the problem?

[ClintroN]

Who gives a fuck why?? That isn't the point.? The point is Slash did play on those songs.? And Axl whines about it even though he got his way.

Alright
Ya fuckin' Velvet Revolver mates are they one's whining in every interview just like i said.

Lets dig up every interview from VR n' lets see who the fucking cry baby's are, Axl this Axl that. !!!!!
They say how great there new band is and they've moved along but they just cant seem to shut the fuck up about Axl.
Obviously it was a hard time to get Slash n' Duff to do those songs, and he wants to get the story straight to the GNR fans, n' im glad he told us, thats something i wanna know about Axl can talk about his own band n' explain afew things ya know,
VR members like to talk about there old singer n' tell you it's not GNR without them, i dont think they've moved along much, still draggin' the past along with em'!!!!


Oh but Axl whines over how he tried to get them to play old tunes       big fuckin' deal dude, come up with somethin' els he said!!!!

But first, what about VR...

[badapple81]

Do yourselves a favor and go get a copy of Chicago 11/18.....watch that tape and then come talk to me about the chemistry of this band

well send me a copy, im bustin' to see it

MSG by it's self was the best chemistry ever, fuck you haters seriously you dont know shit, they are unreal

I'll send you a copy Clintron. I don't have your address anymore tho.

[estranged.1098]

"Dizzy", you have no way of knowing if that happened or not.

And you don't know that it did happen.? But I bet you'd believe Axl 100% on that (and every other) issue.

If I don't know it did happen (and I don't), you don't know either. So why did you say "that makes Axl "Mr. I cannot tell a lie" Rose a liar", if you don't know? Do you think you're being fair?

And I think it's irrelevant if I believe Axl or not on this issue. I never stated my opinion on it, because I don't want to discuss that in the "To anyone who doubts the chemistry of this band..." thread.

To say "So I guess that makes Axl "Mr. I cannot tell a lie" Rose a liar." is making up stuff out of your ass, simply showing how desperate and irrational you are when it comes to bashing Axl.

Go ahead, relegate yourself by hurling stupid accusations.? "Oh you're bitter, oh you're so desperate."? Blah blah blah, go cry to the chickens, and do yourself a favor and learn the meaning of those words before using them again.

Yes, anybody who dares criticize or doubt your messiah Axl Rose MUST be bitter and desperate, even if they've got plenty of reason and evidence to support their claims.? ?

You're not bitter because you criticize Axl, and you can do that all you want for all I care. Just do it at the right place (that means, not on every single thread in this forum) and without making stuff up.

And try to recognize when other people (Slash, Duff) are lying. If you did that I would take your critics on Axl and Guns more seriously.

[ppbebe]

...Blah blah blah..........

So, in short, you?re practically saying that Slash?s leaving GNR may have been the best thing that actually happened to GNR... as it caused the band to bring about this sparkling and spanking new chemistry after all. Yes?